Please forgive my breaking Netiquette on this warning (Forewarned is forearmed); if you receive more than one of these from me, please just delete the extra/s:

13 August 2003

Friends,

I am sending this to people I know and dearly love as well as to many who are virtually strangers on various listserves. Although people on listserves are trained by each other not constantly to warn each other about viruses, worms, trojan horses, and all that; this is a moment when I believe that breaking that rule is well justified. Please forgive me if you disagree with my judgment on that and please don't generate a bunch of bandwidth scolding me on various listserves; but please do read

"Worm targets Windows flaw, patch site"
By Aaron Davis and Kristi Heim
Mercury News
Posted on Mon, Aug. 11, 2003

for instance at

http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/6511962.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp

Please also read the following, posted personally to me by my most-well-respected computer guru, who buys and maintains a multitude of computers for a large company. He rarely gets worked up over these issues, so this effort from him carries great weight, at least for me. I apologize for not taking time I don't now have to find the URL for each of these articles:

Computer Infection Snarls Global Networks

By ANICK JESDANUN, AP Internet Writer

NEW YORK - The latest Internet attack on Microsoft operating systems by rogue software disabled tens of thousands of computers worldwide on Tuesday, though a fix had been available for nearly a month.

The virus-like worm, dubbed "LovSan" or "blaster," snarled corporate networks with an inundation of data packets and frustrated home computer users unversed in techie triage. It forced Maryland's motor vehicle agency to close for the day and kicked Swedish Internet users offline as it spread, the worm triggering Windows computers to shut down and restart.

Security experts said the world was lucky this time around because LovSan is comparatively mild and doesn't destroy files. They worry that a subsequent attack exploiting the same flaw - one of the most severe to afflict Windows - could be much more damaging. "We think we're going to be dealing with it for quite some time," said Dan Ingevaldson, engineering manager at Internet Security Systems Inc. in Atlanta.

Although LovSan did not appear to do any permanent damage, Ingevaldson said instructions to do just that could easily be written into a worm that propagates in the same way.

On July 16, Microsoft Corp. posted on its Web site a free patch that prevents LovSan and similar infections. The underlying flaw affects nearly all versions of the software giant's flagship Windows operating system. Notwithstanding high-profile alerts issued by Microsoft and the Department of Homeland Security, many businesses did not install the patches and scrambled Tuesday to shore up their computers. Security experts say patches often stay on "to do" lists until outbreaks occur.

"You're looking at 70 new vulnerabilities every week," said Sharon Ruckman, senior director at the research lab for anti-virus vendor Symantec Corp. "It's more than a full-time job trying to make sure you are up to date."

Microsoft spokesman Sean Sundwall acknowledged that the blame does not really lie with customers. "Ultimately, it's a flaw in our software," he said.

The latest infection was dubbed "LovSan" because of a love note left behind on vulnerable computers: "I just want to say LOVE YOU SAN!" Researchers also discovered another message hidden inside the infection that appeared to taunt Microsoft's chairman: "billy gates why do you make this possible? Stop making money and fix your software!" Tracing its origins will be difficult because the worm left few clues in the form of hidden greetings to friends, said Marc Maiffret, co-founder of eEye Digital Security. The worm appeared based on code released earlier by a Chinese research group that goes by Xfocus, Maiffret said.

Non-Microsoft systems were not vulnerable, though some may have had trouble connecting with Web sites, e-mail and other servers that run on Windows.

Symantec's probes detected more than 125,000 infected computers worldwide.

The worm exploits a flaw in Windows used to share data files across computer networks. It was first reported in the United States on Monday and spread across the globe as businesses opened Tuesday and workers logged on.

Additional U.S. computers were hit Tuesday, and Maryland's Motor Vehicle Administration shut all its offices at noon. In Sweden, Internet provider TeliaSonera said about 20,000 of its customers were affected after the infection clogged 40 servers that handled Internet traffic. Among companies affected in Germany was automaker BMW, said spokesman Eckhard Vannieck. He said the problems did not affect production.

Symantec, F-Secure Corp. and other anti-virus companies have free tools for removing the worm.

All Windows users, whether their computers were infected or not, were encouraged to obtain a fix from Microsoft's Web site. Anti-virus and firewall products should also be updated, security experts say. Larger companies typically have firewalls that can stem attacks, but once a worm gets inside a firewall, unprotected computers are vulnerable.

Employees connecting from home or taking infected laptops to the office can allow the worm to easily penetrate a company's defenses, said Russ Cooper, a senior researcher at TruSecure Corp.

But to expect home users to keep their systems current is unreasonable, said Bruce Schneier, chief technology officer with Counterpane Internet Security Inc. He blames software developers for writing bad software that constantly need "critical" patches. "My mother will never install the patch until I come visit," he said. "I couldn't even call her and walk her through it. The industry is wrong to expect her to do it. The fact that she sends me e-mail is incredible enough.

Feds warn of broad Internet attack

DHS: Hackers could exploit flaw in Windows software

ASSOCIATED PRESS

WASHINGTON, July 31 - Government and industry experts consider brewing hacker activity a precursor to a broad Internet attack that would target enormous numbers of computers vulnerable from a flaw in Windows software from Microsoft Corp.

EXPERTS DESCRIBED AN unusual confluence of conditions that heighten prospects for a serious disruption soon. They cite the high numbers of potential victims and increasingly sophisticated attack tools already tested successfully by hackers in recent days.

An alert distributed Thursday among U.S. government agencies warned of "widespread scanning and exploitation" of victim computers by hackers who were developing "improved and automated exploit tools."

The Homeland Security Department cautioned Wednesday that it had detected an "Internet-wide increase in scanning" for victim computers. In an unusually ominous alert, it warned the threat could cause a "significant impact" on the Internet.

Experts advised computer users with renewed urgency to apply a free repairing patch that Microsoft has offered on its Web site since July 16, when it acknowledged that the flaw affected nearly all versions of its flagship Windows operating system software.

An attack could come "any day now," predicted Chris Wysopal of AtStake Inc., a security company in Cambridge, Mass. Another company, Qualys Inc., put the threat at the top of a newly released ranking of the Internet's most severe vulnerabilities.

Alan Paller of the SANS Institute in Bethesda, Md., said a disruption could be worse by orders of magnitude than previous high-profile attacks - such as the summer 2001 outbreak of the "Code Red" virus - because of the numbers of vulnerable systems.

Security companies guarding government and corporate networks have identified sporadic break-in attempts worldwide using such tools and have monitored hackers in discussion groups and chat rooms exchanging tips about how to improve the effectiveness of their programs.

Applying Microsoft's repairing patch takes a few moments for home users but is a more daunting challenge for large corporations with tens of thousands of Windows computers.

"People are definitely aggressively trying to patch this," said Ken Dunham, an analyst at iDefense Inc., an online security company. "But a large rollout may need to take some time."

Researchers' biggest fears - that hackers will quickly unleash automated "worm" software that attacks large numbers of computers within minutes - have so far been unrealized.

"Everybody is predicting a widespread event, going from zero to 60 very quickly," said Dan Ingevaldson, an engineering director for Atlanta-based Internet Security Systems Inc. He estimated the likelihood of a major Internet attack as "closer to imminent than probable."

Depending on the hackers' designs, attack tools could be engineered to disrupt Internet traffic by clogging data pipelines, delete important files or steal sensitive documents. Experts cautioned that a particularly clever hacker could leave little trace of an attack.

Oliver Friedrichs, the senior manager for security response at Symantec Corp., predicted that widespread attacks will not occur soon because hackers still need to resolve important glitches in their own attack tools.

"It is a little early," Friedrichs said. "The exploit needs to be perfected. The effort applied to the exploit is certainly increased, but we're not sure if that's indicative of when we might see a widespread threat. People certainly need to be aware of this."

FBI spokesman Bill Murray said bureau investigators were studying several hacker tools designed so far and were highly concerned about a wide-scale Internet attack. "We implore the private sector - both business and home users - to visit the Microsoft Web site and install the patches and mitigations necessary to prevent this from creating a negative effect on the Internet as a whole," Murray said.

The Microsoft flaw affects Windows technology used to share data files across computer networks. It involves a category of vulnerabilities known as "buffer overflows," which can trick software into accepting dangerous commands.

News FYI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you don't read anything else this month, read this. I'm not kidding!
On July 16, Microsoft announced that a group called the Last Stage of Delirium (LSD) had found a humdinger of a bug. If someone writes a hostile program that exploits this bug -- some worm, trojan or the like -- then that program could cause your computer to do pretty much whatever you wanted it to. And you should expect that hostile program any day now -- a Chinese hacker group -- oops, I meant "a non-profit research organization" called Xfocus (www.xfocus.org) has already written and published a "proof of concept" program that exploits MS03-026's bug. Unfortunately Xfocus's work has greatly sped things along for dirtbags everwhere.

Worse yet, the bug applies to NT 4, Windows 2000, XP, and even Windows Server 2003.

The bug works through port 135. Ah, you might be thinking, no problem ... we have a firewall and we've blocked port 135, so no worries. Not so -- remember Nimda? Nimda worked by exploiting several Microsoft security bugs. Your firewall protects you from an MS03-026 exploit so long as the hostile program is outside of your firewall. All a bad guy has to do is to build a virus that uses MS03-026 and wrap it into a Trojan horse program of some kind, like a "click this attachment to download great savings!" e-mail virus. All you need is one person inside the firewall to open it, and the cat's out of the bag.
So please, do yourself a favor and get the patches for this on all of your NT 4, 2000, XP and 2003 systems. Now.

You can find technical info and download links for patches for NT 4 through Server 2003 at

<http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/?url=/technet/security/bulletin/MS03-026.asp>

Again, I cannot stress how important it is that you get this patch on your systems, and quickly. When the exploit gets written for this, it will be a doozie. Imagine all of those 2000 Pro and XP systems sitting in people's homes directly attached to the Internet with no firewall software and port 135 sitting open and exposed to the Internet. Now imagine all of them running some kind of worm that batters away at every other computer on the Internet trying to infect those computers. Remember how slow the Internet became due to Slammer? Well, that only affected computers running SQL Server. Imagine how much worse it'll be if someone writes a Slammer-like worm that "only" affects computers running the Server service -- given that virtually every Windows system runs the Server service, even workstations. My guess is that if someone writes an exploit quickly, before we're all patched, then the Internet will be a shambles for a week or two. So please, do yourself and do all of us a favor -- after you've gotten your systems patched, go tell your not-so-techie neighbor with the new Dell that came with XP Home about this. (Better yet, burn the patch on a CD and hand it to him.) Thanks very much, and please forward this to any and all of your techie friends.

* * * * *

Thank you for taking these matters as seriously as possible. Doing what we can to protect the Internet can't hurt.

Sincerely,

Steve Langford

the virus seems to have hit the main tuning list
particularly hard -- no new messages have
appeared there since Monday morning.

-monz

> From: Steve Langford [mailto:s@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 11:24 AM
> To: Recipient list suppressed
> Subject: [metatuning] Please forgive my breaking Netiquette ...
>
>
> <snip>
>
> 13 August 2003
>
> "Worm targets Windows flaw, patch site"
> By Aaron Davis and Kristi Heim
> Mercury News
> Posted on Mon, Aug. 11, 2003
>
> for instance at
>
> http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/6511962.htm?tem
> plate=contentModules/printstory.jsp
>
> <snip>
>
> Computer Infection Snarls Global Networks
>
> By ANICK JESDANUN, AP Internet Writer
>
> NEW YORK - The latest Internet attack on Microsoft
> operating systems by rogue software disabled tens of
> thousands of computers worldwide on Tuesday, though a
> fix had been available for nearly a month.
>
> The virus-like worm, dubbed "LovSan" or "blaster,"
> snarled corporate networks with an inundation of
> data packets and frustrated home computer
> users unversed in techie triage.
>
> <snip>

> the virus seems to have hit the main tuning list
> particularly hard -- no new messages have
> appeared there since Monday morning.

What virus? msblast? Does part of Yahoo run on Windows?

-Carl

----- Original Message -----
From: <monz@...>

> the virus seems to have hit the main tuning list
> particularly hard -- no new messages have
> appeared there since Monday morning.

What makes you think the virus made the main list go down?

* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

i don't know what happened, but Joe Pehrson and
i have both posted a bunch of stuff to the main list
and nothing has appeared since Monday morning.

i have no idea if the virus had anything to do
with it, but it seems that this particular worm
did cause a big problem worldwide.

-monz

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Beardsley [mailto:db@...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 12:16 PM
> To: metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [metatuning] Please forgive my breaking
> Netiquette on this
> warning
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <monz@...>
>
> > the virus seems to have hit the main tuning list
> > particularly hard -- no new messages have
> > appeared there since Monday morning.
>
> What makes you think the virus made the main list go down?

maybe it knocked the power out too!

monz@... wrote:

> i don't know what happened, but Joe Pehrson and
> i have both posted a bunch of stuff to the main list
> and nothing has appeared since Monday morning.
>
> i have no idea if the virus had anything to do
> with it, but it seems that this particular worm
> did cause a big problem worldwide.
>
> -monz
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Beardsley [mailto:db@...]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 12:16 PM
> > To: metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [metatuning] Please forgive my breaking
> > Netiquette on this
> > warning
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <monz@...>
> >
> > > the virus seems to have hit the main tuning list
> > > particularly hard -- no new messages have
> > > appeared there since Monday morning.
> >
> > What makes you think the virus made the main list go down?
>
>
>
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>
> To post to the list, send to
> metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>
> You don't have to be a member to post.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

how can you type in the dark?

David Beardsley wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <monz@...>
>
> > the virus seems to have hit the main tuning list
> > particularly hard -- no new messages have
> > appeared there since Monday morning.
>
> What makes you think the virus made the main list go down?
>
> * David Beardsley
> * microtonal guitar
> * http://biink.com/db
>
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>
> To post to the list, send to
> metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>
> You don't have to be a member to post.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

----- Original Message -----
From: "kraig grady" <kraiggrady@...>

> how can you type in the dark?

Because I live in New Jersey? Besides the sun is still up.
It's a good thing I didn't go to NYC today.

I'm outta here, BB King and Jeff Beck at the PNC Arts Center tonight!

* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

----- Original Message -----
From: "kraig grady" <kraiggrady@...>

> maybe it knocked the power out too!

Maybe the work of John Ashcroft?

* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

I don't think he is capable of conspiracy, just repression.

David Beardsley wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "kraig grady" <kraiggrady@...>
>
> > maybe it knocked the power out too!
>
> Maybe the work of John Ashcroft?
>
> * David Beardsley
> * microtonal guitar
> * http://biink.com/db
>
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>
> To post to the list, send to
> metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>
> You don't have to be a member to post.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

----- Original Message -----
From: <monz@...>

> i don't know what happened, but Joe Pehrson and
> i have both posted a bunch of stuff to the main list
> and nothing has appeared since Monday morning.
>
> i have no idea if the virus had anything to do
> with it, but it seems that this particular worm
> did cause a big problem worldwide.

Does Yahoo groups allow attachments? I think not.
So how would a virus even get through Yahoo?
I also seriously doubt that Yahoo is running on Windows 2000 or XP.

The virus has been a total pain in my ass this week. Part of
the problem is dealing with the idiots that use these machines.
I don't normally do tech work, I really have better things to do.

* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

About the worm/virus problem:

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "David Beardsley" <db@b...> wrote:
> Does Yahoo groups allow attachments? I think not.
> So how would a virus even get through Yahoo?

Ah, but Dave, you know this one was different - not related to attachments. No, there isn't a chance that it was the kind of thing that would have hit servers. Nor would it bring down just one newsgroup (all my other Yahoo groups are still active).

> The virus has been a total pain in my ass this week. Part of
> the problem is dealing with the idiots that use these machines.
> I don't normally do tech work, I really have better things to do.

Totally agreed. Of the 4 computers in our house, only my wife's both

1. is connected to the net
2. runs Windows XP

When I realized that getting this thing had *nothing* to do with an action on the part of a user, but merely *being online*, I took her offline until I could download all the patches (WindowsUpdate). *Complete* pain in the ass, up until 2:00 am getting everything working, but better than her machine crashing and THEN fixing it.

All because of sloppy security code. Maybe the *good* thing about this one was that it hit home users more than business, and will be both a warning for end-users to keep software current AND move M$ to make patching their OS less painful than it currently is, which is about as painfull as passing a kidney stone the size of Rhode Island.

Cheers,
Jon

Here it turned out a good thing to use Windows 1998 because it was immune to
the worm. Maybe if one has multiple computers, one should be kept in an
earlier Windows version?

best, Johnny

p.s. just out of the dark ages

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:
> Here it turned out a good thing to use Windows 1998 because it was immune to
> the worm. Maybe if one has multiple computers, one should be kept in an
> earlier Windows version?

So true: the computer I use to go online is also W98, and therefore not susceptible to the problem. This is all so nuts.

So, I'm hoping this means your power is back on!

Cheers,
Jon

----- Original Message -----
From: <Afmmjr@...>

> Here it turned out a good thing to use Windows 1998 because it was immune
to
> the worm. Maybe if one has multiple computers, one should be kept in an
> earlier Windows version?

I'd keep my email on the Win 98 machine, but
mp3 and streaming audio makes it crash. Not worth the
trouble.

I see you're on line Johnny. Where are you?
I missed the blackout by a couple of miles.

* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

Afmmjr@... wrote:

>Here it turned out a good thing to use Windows 1998 because it was immune to >the worm. Maybe if one has multiple computers, one should be kept in an >earlier Windows version? >
If one has multiple computers, why not keep Lunix on one of them?

For myself, I decided I could live with Windows 98 and no dual boot. But it kept trashing the new bonus partition I gave it, and eventually corrupted the partition table. So I've started from scratch with Mandrake 8.1. No updates, but mod-ssl isn't installed.

I think I was immune from this kind of problem even if it had affected Windows98, because the firewall would have stopped it.

Graham

G,

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Graham Breed <graham@m...> wrote:
> If one has multiple computers, why not keep Lunix on one of them?

Is that the open-source OS that was started by the man on the moon?

Cheers,
Jon

Jon Szanto wrote:

>Is that the open-source OS that was started by the man on the moon?
> >
No, by the Norwegian programmer Lunis Torvaldes. See

http://www.somethingawful.com/jeffk/computarfunnys/comic-10.htm

And this is also relevant

http://www.somethingawful.com/jeffk/computarfunnys/comic-2.htm

Graham

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Graham Breed <graham@m...> wrote:
> No, by the Norwegian programmer Lunis Torvaldes...

Thanks Graham - I hadn't seen any of that, and I was really in need of a good laugh this afternoon!!!

Cheers,
Jon

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, kraig grady <kraiggrady@a...>

/metatuning/topicId_5306.html#5319

wrote:
> maybe it knocked the power out too!
>

***The "authorities" say it had nothing to do with terrorism, but I
remain a bit skeptical. Certainly "cyberterrorism" is possible.

We had no electricity, phone, toilet, running water, stove, access to
money, elevator... what fun!

J. Pehrson

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, kraig grady <kraiggrady@a...>

/metatuning/topicId_5306.html#5320

wrote:
> how can you type in the dark?
>
> David Beardsley wrote:
>

***I think David is in New Jersey??

J. Pehrson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@...>

> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, kraig grady <kraiggrady@a...>
>
> /metatuning/topicId_5306.html#5320
>
> wrote:
> > how can you type in the dark?
> >
> > David Beardsley wrote:
> >
>
> ***I think David is in New Jersey??

That's right, I'm in NJ. Fortunately I didn't go to town
that day because I had to wait for UPS. Yesterday I
picked up a copy of a local paper and found out
that there were local outages, but nothing like NY had. Phew!

* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:
> Here it turned out a good thing to use Windows 1998 because it was
immune to
> the worm. Maybe if one has multiple computers, one should be kept
in an
> earlier Windows version?

I use W98 just to get away from the Microsoft urge to "improve"
things by making them worse.

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Graham Breed <graham@m...> wrote:

> If one has multiple computers, why not keep Lunix on one of them?
>
> For myself, I decided I could live with Windows 98 and no dual
boot.
> But it kept trashing the new bonus partition I gave it, and
eventually
> corrupted the partition table.

I had problems with W98 and Grub duking it out for supremacy, so I
got rid of Grub and boot Linux off a diskette. This has worked very
well.

Gene Ward Smith wrote:

>I had problems with W98 and Grub duking it out for supremacy, so I >got rid of Grub and boot Linux off a diskette. This has worked very >well.
> >
I've got that side pretty much worked out -- just "upgrade" from the Mandrake CD after installing Windows. No, the problem now is that Windows won't boot :( I think it's installed itself onto the partition the Mandrake install left without reformatting it as a system disk.

The original problem with Linux was that I couldn't install a printer, and trying too hard caused the whole system to go down. Unfortunately, once you say you've got a printer there's no way of convincing the upgrade routine that you don't really so that it removes whatever files are causing the problem, and you have to reinstall from scratch.

So neither of them are perfect, but only Windows is so amateurish as to wipe out gigabytes of data at the drop of a hat.

Graham

XP is so much better than 98 that its not even funny. I think its crashed
once or maybe twice in nearly 2 years. There are a couple of older programs
that it cant run that I wish it would, but aside from that it works so good
its invisible. Of course, it may be reporting every keystroke I make back to
Big Brother...

Dante

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene Ward Smith [mailto:gwsmith@...]
> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 3:29 PM
> To: metatuning@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [metatuning] MSBlast (worm) (was Re: Please forgive...)
>
>
> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:
> > Here it turned out a good thing to use Windows 1998 because it was
> immune to
> > the worm. Maybe if one has multiple computers, one should be kept
> in an
> > earlier Windows version?
>
> I use W98 just to get away from the Microsoft urge to "improve"
> things by making them worse.
>
>
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> metatuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Web page is http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/metatuning/
>
> To post to the list, send to
> metatuning@yahoogroups.com
>
> You don't have to be a member to post.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Graham Breed <graham@m...> wrote:
> So neither of them are perfect, but only Windows is so amateurish as
> to wipe out gigabytes of data at the drop of a hat.

Of course, that has never happened to me. It all depends on what you want to do: spend all day f***ing around with os stuff, or get to work. And use tools that most, if not all, of your colleagues use. I'm no M$ or Gates fan by any means, but I haven't seen any reason whatsoever, other than political, for me to set myself back years by switching to a *nix setup. I frankly have too much work and software invested in another, if imperfect, platform.

And I'd probably pick a nice new Apple if I wanted to do something different anyway...

Cheers,
Jon

Dante Rosati wrote:

>XP is so much better than 98 that its not even funny. I think its crashed
>once or maybe twice in nearly 2 years. There are a couple of older programs
>that it cant run that I wish it would, but aside from that it works so good
>its invisible. Of course, it may be reporting every keystroke I make back to
>Big Brother...
> >
Indeed, and one of those programs is, officially, Kyma. If it weren't for that, I could probably do without Windows completely. I don't like what I hear of XP's Big Brotherish tendencies, but I used Windows 2000 at work and that's fine. Perhaps I could upgrade when Kyma supports it, but I still resent paying more money to get my computer to do what it was supposed to do when I bought it.

Graham

Jon Szanto wrote:

> Of course, that has never happened to me. It all depends on what you > want to do: spend all day f***ing around with os stuff, or get to > work. And use tools that most, if not all, of your colleagues use. I'm > no M$ or Gates fan by any means, but I haven't seen any reason > whatsoever, other than political, for me to set myself back years by > switching to a *nix setup. I frankly have too much work and software > invested in another, if imperfect, platform.

Quite, it depends on what you want to do. But what I want do do *isn't* fuck around with OS stuff, that's just the price I have to pay for running Windows 98. Unfortunately, some other things I want to do require it. Most of what I use regularly will run on either platform -- Cygwin gets you quite a good Unix system under Windows, Python and Mozilla are fully cross platform, The Gimp works well enough in Windows. In theory I could do without Linux, and I did try, but I had to admit that it wasn't working in practice.

>And I'd probably pick a nice new Apple if I wanted to do something different anyway...
>
Yes, I was thinking about getting a Power Book before I lost my job. I'll have to struggle by with what I have for the time being.

Graham

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Graham Breed <graham@m...> wrote:
> >And I'd probably pick a nice new Apple if I wanted to do something different anyway...
> >
> Yes, I was thinking about getting a Power Book before I lost my job.

Oh, that's no fun - sorry to hear, Graham.

> I'll have to struggle by with what I have for the time being.

You'll make it. Besides, aren't those PowerBooks just for actors and high-priced IT folks? :)

Cheers,
Jon

>So neither of them are perfect, but only Windows is so
>amateurish as to wipe out gigabytes of data at the drop
>of a hat.

Eh?

-Carl

>I had problems with W98 and Grub duking it out for
>supremacy, so I got rid of Grub and boot Linux off
>a diskette. This has worked very well.

Lilo worked flawlessly for me.

-Carl

> I use W98 just to get away from the Microsoft urge to "improve"
> things by making them worse.

NT kernel OSs are definitely superior than 9x kernel OSs.

Any OS can be configured in an unsecure fashion. I don't use
RPC, so I disable it, hence I wasn't vulnerable to msblast.
I also get regular updates from MS. I don't use bogus apps
like Word or Outlook. I've never had a problem.

-Carl

>Indeed, and one of those programs is, officially, Kyma.

Yeah, it's real bad.

>I don't like what I hear of XP's Big Brotherish tendencies,
>but I used Windows 2000 at work and that's fine. Perhaps I
>could upgrade when Kyma supports it, but I still resent
>paying more money to get my computer to do what it was
>supposed to do when I bought it.

I still think Win2K was a better OS in its day, but I finally
upgraded to XP. You can run it so it looks and acts exactly
like 2K, including stopping all the big brother tendencies,
except you get...

() Cleartype (this supposedly could be added to Win2K, but I
never got it to work).

() Newer drivers.

() Snap to grid in icon view (handy for the desktop).

() Faster boot/shutdown.

() Built-in firewall that seems to work pretty well.

-Carl

> Quite, it depends on what you want to do. But what I want do do
> *isn't* fuck around with OS stuff,

So you run linux?

>Cygwin gets you quite a good Unix system under Windows,

I dunno about that. And it's millions of annoying files,
with the worst installer ever developed.

>And I'd probably pick a nice new Apple if I wanted to do
>something different anyway...

I do like their unix gui the best, though I haven't tried the
very latest latest KDE.

>Yes, I was thinking about getting a Power Book before I lost
>my job. I'll have to struggle by with what I have for the
>time being.

Sorry to hear that. I'm still officially unemployed; doing
contract work here and there.

-Carl

>Besides, aren't those PowerBooks just for actors and
>high-priced IT folks? :)

They're for people who like to spend lots of money but
still get a low resolution display. The 17" one has
pixels the size of your thumbnail.

-Carl

> () Cleartype (this supposedly could be added to Win2K, but I
> never got it to work).

Generic sub-pixel rendering was also supposed to be available
on KDE 2.blah, but after spending 2 hours telling four layers
of the OS about it, I still couldn't see any difference.

-Carl