electric guitar experience

Well, I done did it, and have a nice, but low-end Fender Strat here.
Very nice. I'm really enjoying it. What does "Strat" stand for,
anyway. I take it, it's not "Stradivarius..." :) Did I
read "Stratocaster" someplace...

Anyway... the instrument is *inherently* intensely microtonal. There
is a so-called "whammy bar..." (I guess that's what it's called)
that seems to vary each string down almost a minor third... Serious
glissando action.

And, then there are all the great effects. I finally got
a "expression pedal" having forgotten to get one the first time I
went to the store. Great device!

I'm using the Zoom 505II, and it's astonishing all the possible
distortion/compression effects, etc. on it. Many of these involve
continuous microtonal *pitch change* using the expression pedal.
Again, *lots* of microtonality in even this 12-equally fretted
instrument.

Then, there is the *convenience* of having it all hooked up to my
mixer, with the computer equipment. Before, when I would work with
the notation program, Sibelius, I would have earphones on for the
program and would have to hear the acoustic guitar *through* the
earphones. Bad. No more. Now, I'll even be using the electric for
acoustic guitar emulation with the Sibelius software.

And, the biggest surprise of all was the fact that I feel the the
electric guitar has a feel not *too* different from a nice nylon
acoustic. Well, I mean compared to a *folk* guitar. I never liked
the feel of those. I think one needs "farm hands" literally, to
manhandle one of these critters. Never liked them.

However, I can easily play Bach on the electric with my fingers
with "no sweat" or pain (and adjust the gain!) No problemo. It's
great.

How about a little Bach with a little heavy metal lead... just the
ticket.

Joseph Pehrson

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...>
wrote:

> How about a little Bach with a little heavy metal lead... just the
> ticket.
>
> Joseph Pehrson

uh-oh . . . you're reminding me of the 80s and early 90s, the heyday
of "neoclassical metal":

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/list-browse/-
/G773GUR0Q4DR/ref%3Dcm%5Faya%5Fav.lm%5Flm/002-2132585-1893654

apparently the trend continues:

http://www.jsbach.org/arock.html
http://www.jsbachexperience.com/

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_4758.html#4760

> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...>
> wrote:
>
> > How about a little Bach with a little heavy metal lead... just
the
> > ticket.
> >
> > Joseph Pehrson
>
> uh-oh . . . you're reminding me of the 80s and early 90s, the
heyday
> of "neoclassical metal":
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/list-browse/-
> /G773GUR0Q4DR/ref%3Dcm%5Faya%5Fav.lm%5Flm/002-2132585-1893654
>
> apparently the trend continues:
>
> http://www.jsbach.org/arock.html
> http://www.jsbachexperience.com/

***This is pretty funny, Paul. Well, you know me; I'd be the *last*
to claim I'd re-invented the wheel. I'm not at all surprised that
this has been done before...

Actually, I had never heard of this Malmsteen... not bad some of this.

I didn't see any sound files on the other pages.

Come to think of it, I remember some jazzers way back in maybe the
late 70's... (remember that Paul?? :) who did a kind of jazzed-up
Bach and they used guitars. A French or Canadian group. Now I can't
remember the name, but great stuff.

Seems like a natural kind of thing to do, or at least it's the first
time *I've* tried it, that's for sure, even with my limited technique
(it's getting better! :)

Thanks for keeping me "up to date!"

JP

>----- Original Message -----
>From: Joseph Pehrson

>Come to think of it, I remember some jazzers way back in maybe the
>late 70's... (remember that Paul?? :) who did a kind of jazzed-up
>Bach and they used guitars. A French or Canadian group. Now I can't
>remember the name, but great stuff.

http://www.jsbach.org/jazz.html

* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:
> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...>
> wrote:
>
> > How about a little Bach with a little heavy metal lead... just
the
> > ticket.
> >
> > Joseph Pehrson
>
> uh-oh . . . you're reminding me of the 80s and early 90s, the heyday
> of "neoclassical metal":
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/list-browse/-
> /G773GUR0Q4DR/ref%3Dcm%5Faya%5Fav.lm%5Flm/002-2132585-1893654
>
> apparently the trend continues:
>
> http://www.jsbach.org/arock.html
> http://www.jsbachexperience.com/

This is a very good thing. Rock musicians have been noodling on
classical themes for years, and its about time they played the whole
damn thing. Neil Haverstick and I worked up a couple of complete
pieces years ago, and it was some of the most fun I've had. There is a
crummy recording of one of them here:
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/11/johnny_lobster.html

John Starrett

>> http://www.jsbachexperience.com/

Yeah, these guys rock. I can't get to their site right
now. Did they ever put out a 2nd album?

> This is a very good thing.

Agree. The rock instrumentation is a complete, versitile,
and extremely powerful one that should be more fully
utilized.

>Neil Haverstick and I worked up a couple of complete
>pieces years ago, and it was some of the most fun I've had.

I've kept those on my hard drive for years. I really
dig obligato bass.

-Carl

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "John Starrett" <jstarret@c...>
wrote:
> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <PERLICH@A...>
wrote:
> > --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson"
<jpehrson@r...>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > How about a little Bach with a little heavy metal lead... just
> the
> > > ticket.
> > >
> > > Joseph Pehrson
> >
> > uh-oh . . . you're reminding me of the 80s and early 90s, the
heyday
> > of "neoclassical metal":
> >
> > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/list-browse/-
> > /G773GUR0Q4DR/ref%3Dcm%5Faya%5Fav.lm%5Flm/002-2132585-1893654
> >
> > apparently the trend continues:
> >
> > http://www.jsbach.org/arock.html
> > http://www.jsbachexperience.com/

joseph, one of these is actually an mp3.com page with sound examples -
- don't know how you missed it.

> This is a very good thing. Rock musicians have been noodling on
> classical themes for years, and its about time they played the
whole
> damn thing. Neil Haverstick and I worked up a couple of complete
> pieces years ago, and it was some of the most fun I've had. There
is a
> crummy recording of one of them here:
> http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/11/johnny_lobster.html
>
> John Starrett

cool! -- the brahms "hungarian" is a favorite jamming piece for
electric guitar and piano in my household . . .

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "John Starrett" <jstarret@c...>

/metatuning/topicId_4758.html#4763

> This is a very good thing. Rock musicians have been noodling on
> classical themes for years, and its about time they played the
whole
> damn thing. Neil Haverstick and I worked up a couple of complete
> pieces years ago, and it was some of the most fun I've had. There
is a
> crummy recording of one of them here:
> http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/11/johnny_lobster.html
>
> John Starrett

***The Brahms is a great use of the electric guitar, in my opinion.
Of course, being able to play like Haverstick helps a bit... :)

J. Pehrson

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_4758.html#4764

> Agree. The rock instrumentation is a complete, versitile,
> and extremely powerful one that should be more fully
> utilized.
>

***Hi Carl,

Well, this is part of the point. Maybe I'm just missing something,
which is quite possible since I haven't been following it much... :)
but it seems the electric guitar as an artistic instrument has only
been partially explored...

??

J. Pehrson

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:
> >> http://www.jsbachexperience.com/
>
> Yeah, these guys rock. I can't get to their site right
> now. Did they ever put out a 2nd album?
<snip>

Just heard one of their pieces. Pretty darned good. I hope they will
inspire others to cover the classics.

John Starrett

Hello Joe! Nice to see you were getting on with this. Is the
honeymoon still in progress? It looks like the thread went off into
reorchestrations of classical music without anybody answering your
questions.

> Well, I done did it, and have a nice, but low-end Fender Strat
here.
> Very nice. I'm really enjoying it. What does "Strat" stand for,
> anyway. I take it, it's not "Stradivarius..." :) Did I
> read "Stratocaster" someplace...

Yes, it's short for Stratocaster, which doesn't really mean anything.

> Anyway... the instrument is *inherently* intensely microtonal.
There
> is a so-called "whammy bar..." (I guess that's what it's called)
> that seems to vary each string down almost a minor third...
Serious
> glissando action.

It's called a "tremolo bar" or, more accurately, a "vibrato bar". You
have to be careful as using it can put the instrument out of tune.
This is something more expensive instruments can handle better. And
it can't be used for microtonal chords, as all strings move together
(if not identically).

The simplest way of pitch bending is to move the strings sideways.
That's easier with the common practice of tuning to a semitone below
concert pitch.

> I'm using the Zoom 505II, and it's astonishing all the possible
> distortion/compression effects, etc. on it. Many of these involve
> continuous microtonal *pitch change* using the expression pedal.
> Again, *lots* of microtonality in even this 12-equally fretted
> instrument.

I found that the Zoom wasn't much use for pitch shifting, and so got a
Boss pedal for that (and delay). The continuous pitch change didn't
seem to be as microtonal as it should have been. But these are really
gimmicks -- it is versatile for distortion and compression, if not
high audio quality.

The distortions are generally emulations of analog gear. Some of them
might involve transistor fuzz boxes as well as tube amplifiers. They
won't sound quite like the real thing, but are close to a lot of
classic effects. One problem is that the unit has a low sampling
rate. If I set Kyma to 32 kHz, it does a great Zoom 505 emulation.
CD quality of 44 kHz is better, and I'm sure I can hear an improvement
up to 50 kHz. This may be because subharmonics become audible, but it
means Zoom can never get the right sound even if they faithfully
duplicate the response curves of analog hardware.

Does anybody happen to know the Pod's sample rate?

Graham

----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Breed" <graham@...>

> > Anyway... the instrument is *inherently* intensely microtonal.
> There
> > is a so-called "whammy bar..." (I guess that's what it's called)
> > that seems to vary each string down almost a minor third...
> Serious
> > glissando action.
>
> It's called a "tremolo bar" or, more accurately, a "vibrato bar".

Here in the states, it's called a whammy bar.

* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Graham Breed" <graham@m...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_4758.html#4777

> Hello Joe! Nice to see you were getting on with this.

***Hi Graham! Yes, I've been enjoying it. For one thing, the
electric guitar can be used in composing to best simulate either the
electric *or* the acoustic:

Since I use Sibelius, when I was writing for the acoustic I had to
hear it *through* the earphones when I was working with it, which was
certainly not ideal, so this "electronic" instrument is *much* better
integrated with the computer equipment for *all* my composing.

Is the
> honeymoon still in progress?

***Yes, definitely. The Zoom box has 36 different effects and, quite
frankly, I only "liked" about 11 of them.

If I were a "pompous ass" I would say those were the only "artistic"
ones, but I know better than to say that.

Besides, I really have to "fiddle" more with these sounds using the
expression pedal and different volume levels. A friend of mine told
me that one really needed a *pick* in order to get some of the
distortion effects. So far, I've mostly been just playing with my
fingers, as I would a classical guitar. (I have a pick, but haven't
been using it).

Quite frankly, that was the most surprising aspect of the electric
guitar for me. My very *first* guitar, which I since sold, maybe
foolishly, was a *folk* guitar with steel strings. I really didn't
like the feel on my hands, either left or right. Certainly, that
kind of guitar cannot be played with a classical "technique" or it
will eat up the hands. I was saying one needed "farm hands" for such
an enterprise.

However, the electric guitar was entirely different and although I
don't like the feel of it as much as the nylon string, one can
*certainly* play it like a classical, or at least I'm having no
trouble doing so with this particular instrument.

It looks like the thread went off into
> reorchestrations of classical music without anybody answering your
> questions.
>
> > Well, I done did it, and have a nice, but low-end Fender Strat
> here.
> > Very nice. I'm really enjoying it. What does "Strat" stand for,
> > anyway. I take it, it's not "Stradivarius..." :) Did I
> > read "Stratocaster" someplace...
>
> Yes, it's short for Stratocaster, which doesn't really mean
anything.
>
> > Anyway... the instrument is *inherently* intensely microtonal.
> There
> > is a so-called "whammy bar..." (I guess that's what it's called)
> > that seems to vary each string down almost a minor third...
> Serious
> > glissando action.
>
> It's called a "tremolo bar" or, more accurately, a "vibrato bar".

***Graham, I do believe it's called a "whammy bar" here in the
States. That sounds vaguely obscene...

You
> have to be careful as using it can put the instrument out of tune.

***That isn't too surprising since it shoves all the strings into a
shortened mode... and then back again...

> This is something more expensive instruments can handle better. And
> it can't be used for microtonal chords, as all strings move together
> (if not identically).
>
> The simplest way of pitch bending is to move the strings sideways.
> That's easier with the common practice of tuning to a semitone below
> concert pitch.

***Yes, I was also surprised with the degree of flexibility in that.

>
> > I'm using the Zoom 505II, and it's astonishing all the possible
> > distortion/compression effects, etc. on it. Many of these
involve
> > continuous microtonal *pitch change* using the expression pedal.
> > Again, *lots* of microtonality in even this 12-equally fretted
> > instrument.
>
> I found that the Zoom wasn't much use for pitch shifting, and so
got a
> Boss pedal for that (and delay). The continuous pitch change didn't
> seem to be as microtonal as it should have been. But these are
really
> gimmicks -- it is versatile for distortion and compression, if not
> high audio quality.
>
> The distortions are generally emulations of analog gear. Some of
them
> might involve transistor fuzz boxes as well as tube amplifiers.
They
> won't sound quite like the real thing, but are close to a lot of
> classic effects. One problem is that the unit has a low sampling
> rate. If I set Kyma to 32 kHz, it does a great Zoom 505 emulation.
> CD quality of 44 kHz is better, and I'm sure I can hear an
improvement
> up to 50 kHz. This may be because subharmonics become audible, but
it
> means Zoom can never get the right sound even if they faithfully
> duplicate the response curves of analog hardware.
>

***Yes, I noticed that some of the sounds and effects have a bit of
the "cheap imitation" aspect about them. However, the box is
*perfect* for *my* particular use, which was to find out what all
this electric guitar stuff was all about.

Actually, it made an *immediate* effect on my listening to some
contemporary pop/rock music. I realized how *smooth* some of the
electric guitar sounds are in some commercial releases. There's a
certain specialized kind of artistry in all this and I think most
composers could benefit by learning about some of these trends, if
they don't know about them already.

Joe P.

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Graham Breed" <graham@m...> wrote:
> > Anyway... the instrument is *inherently* intensely microtonal.
> There
> > is a so-called "whammy bar..." (I guess that's what it's called)
> > that seems to vary each string down almost a minor third...
> Serious
> > glissando action.
>
> It's called a "tremolo bar" or, more accurately, a "vibrato bar".
You
> have to be careful as using it can put the instrument out of tune.
> This is something more expensive instruments can handle better. And
> it can't be used for microtonal chords, as all strings move together
> (if not identically).
<snip>
>
> Graham

The Steinberger trans-trem allows you to set up each string
independently so that a given amount of displacement of the bar bends
each string the amount you have set. Thus, all strings can be set to
bend the same amount, keeping the original chord in tune, or they can
be set to bend different amounts, sort of like a steel guitar. It has
three (I think) locking positions, so that you can actually use it to
transpose.

John Starrett