Re: the tribal rules [was: Posts from another list]

Hi!

First of all thanks Graham for creating this necessary
list.

--- In metatuning@y..., graham@m... wrote:

> Note that "Tuning Police" is in capitals.
> That suggests it is a proper name.
> It is a name that has in the past been applied to Paul Erlich.

Graham, I think you are reading too much into this. Before
all this happened, I myself used the term "Tuning Police"
but I was not thinking of anyone in particular. For me it
is similar to the term "Dream Police" -- the characters in
your dreams that try to convince you you are really awake
once you start lucid dreaming and have taken control. They
are a force to stop you from being lucid and aware of
yourself and able to create productively. So for me the
Tuning Police, whoever "they" are (Police I think is
plural or collective, not singular which would be
Policeman) represents -any- force that distracts us from
creating things, intentional or not. Sometimes or perhaps
ALWAYS in is our OWN SELVES -- just like the Dream Police
are obviously parts of our own subconscious.

Anyway, he term 'Tuning Policeman' or 'the Tuning Cop' was
_never_ used by anyone so I think it is incorrect to say a
specific person was thought of.

I think the only reason Jacky used the term is because he
had read my post from last week and thought the term
itself was funny. Not because he was thinking of any one
person:

>Subject: [tuning] The Lawless Tuning Cyberworld
>Date: Sun, May 13, 2001, 5:10 PM

>Hi Monz & Dan,

>> Dan Stearns uses a different metaphor: he calls Paul the
>> "Tuning Police". So during his absence we posted in a
>> lawless tuning cyberworld.

>Ah... that sounds so sweet! Where can I find this
>tuning utopia of freedom and beauty?

>Dan, if you have the web address, send it to me
>privately.

>- Jeff

But come on now, I was not being very serious here, and I
think everyone got that because no one flamed me for
saying that. I was just fooling around, and I don't think
Monz or Dan were all that serious either. If I thought
there was any spirit of meanness in Monz's post, I would
not have chimed in.

>> 5. If somebody posts something that you don't personally feel
>> is overly theoretical and not particularly practical, please
>> tell only them, rather than broadcast your criticism over the
>> list.

> This is what Jeff had suggested at the beginning - the Tribal
> Thunk - sent privately of course.

Hey look everybody! It's my name.

In the spirit of disclosure, I will reveal what I said
about 'thunking' so people know what I am talking about
here. I was thinking it would be fun to have some 'rules'
like they do on a certain TV game show to help us focus on
creation of music. But I later realized that having such
mandatory rules before the fact would make _me_ the
'Tuning Policeman' so I changed my mind and decided what I
_really_ needed to do was apply the rules to *myself*
first and see if they worked. I figured that if people saw
me applying these rules to myself and noticed that they
were actually working to help me write more music, they
might be inspired and try the rules themselves. So I made
some posts about that instead, letting people know they
could 'challenge' me to produce actual music anytime I
posted some new tuning I had devised without giving an
example.

> TRIBAL CUSTOM 1 - THE THUNK
> ---------------------------

> If you notice anyone who is being impractical or talking about
> tunings he/she has never actually composed with you can call
> him/her on it by issuing a 'thunk' call. In this case, you
> respond to them privately with an email that has their subject
> and in the body you write:

> "Thunk!"

> Whenever we get thunked on a post, we keep count of the number
> of thunks and then, in the spirit of humility, post a summary to
> the list a day or two later.

> Example:

> "Hello list, since I posted on 'Spiral Galaxy Adaptive Tunings',
> I have gotten 17 thunks. But I do want to say that I am
> -personally- writing the software to do this, so I am trying
> somewhat to keep it real."

> "Hello list, since I posted on 'Interactive Bilateral/ Tuning
> Dimensional Lattices', I have gotten 28 thunks. I confess I have
> no music to back my claims and I will not bring it up again
> until I do. Thank you for helping me keep it real."

> Thunks are the same thing as issuing a SCRABBLE challenge: "I
> don't believe that is a real word."

------

I also came up with a related rule, which I'll include for
completeness. That's why I said the email should be
private. I came up with another way of doing it called
'the challenge' that could be done publically, but also
entailed a risk -- once the challengee survived the
challenge, the challenger had to put up some music too!

>TRIBAL CUSTOM 2: THE CHALLENGE
>------------------------------

> If someone is talking about some tuning like they are a big
> fancy expert, any member is welcome to issue 'The Challenge'.

> Once you receive 'The Challenge', you must either make available
> an excerpt from music you have written using the tuning, or post
> an article or review of a concert you have given which uses the
> tuning.

> As an alternative, another list member may "Bear Witness' on
> your behalf if they have personally heard music from you that
> uses the tuning.

> Once you have faced and survived 'The Challenge', the person who
> challenged you must post an excerpt of his/her own music, and
> will lose a turn to post. Oh wait, no that's Scrabble. You don't
> lose a turn, but other than that this holds.

> This custom serves the tribal motto "Keeping it Real" and also
> serves as an incentive for us all to make sure we are writing
> music and not just talking about it.

-------

If anyone likes these rules they can use them. I came up
with them not to mock or spite anyone but because I was
wondering what we could do to help people who want to
'keep it real' and _write_ more music. I myself suffer the
temptation to theorize and metapost (as I am doing now) as
a substitute for writing music and I also see that when it
really comes down to it, there is not so much music being
written but a lot of talk going on. We all, including
myself, need to get real with the program if we want to
call ourselves composers, or admit we are theorists and be
happy with that. Either way is fine with me. I'm just
concerned that there are others like myself hoping to get
a little incentive and inspiration from involvement with
other composers here but for some reason that's not
working. My personal decision has been to openly invite
people to keep me real in the PM list.

Anyway, in summary... there you have it.

- Jeff

--- In metatuning@y..., "X. J. Scott" <xjscott@e...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_3.html#3

> >> [me, monz]
> >> Dan Stearns uses a different metaphor: he calls Paul the
> >> "Tuning Police". So during his absence we posted in a
> >> lawless tuning cyberworld.
>
> [Jeff]
> >Ah... that sounds so sweet! Where can I find this
> >tuning utopia of freedom and beauty?
>
> >Dan, if you have the web address, send it to me
> >privately.
>
> >- Jeff
>
> But come on now, I was not being very serious here, and I
> think everyone got that because no one flamed me for
> saying that. I was just fooling around, and I don't think
> Monz or Dan were all that serious either. If I thought
> there was any spirit of meanness in Monz's post, I would
> not have chimed in.

Of course I was not being serious. I take the blame for
all this "Tuning Police" business anyway. Dan Stearns made
up the name but was wise enough to keep it private. I'm
the one who posted it to the list (the first time was around
two years ago). And I never considered it to have any
negative or perjorative connotation. I *LIKE* the fact
the Paul is the Tuning Police.

So, yes, it's my fault that Paul is the one single person
being equated with this term. But IMO the Tuning List would
be floundering in a wash of incorrect logic and mathematical
errors if it wasn't for his generous help.

-monz
http://www.monz.org
"All roads lead to n^0"

Jeff Scott wrote:

> Hi!
>
> First of all thanks Graham for creating this necessary
> list.

I originally thought of it as a joke. But I think there may be a serious
need for it, to spare the 450 members of the List from seeing all the
squabbles. Also, to stop casual visitors (remember the archives are
public) from getting a bad initial impression.

> Graham, I think you are reading too much into this. Before
> all this happened, I myself used the term "Tuning Police"
> but I was not thinking of anyone in particular. For me it
> is similar to the term "Dream Police" -- the characters in
> your dreams that try to convince you you are really awake
> once you start lucid dreaming and have taken control. They
> are a force to stop you from being lucid and aware of
> yourself and able to create productively. So for me the
> Tuning Police, whoever "they" are (Police I think is
> plural or collective, not singular which would be
> Policeman) represents -any- force that distracts us from
> creating things, intentional or not. Sometimes or perhaps
> ALWAYS in is our OWN SELVES -- just like the Dream Police
> are obviously parts of our own subconscious.

Only Jacky knows what Jacky meant. But to interpret "Tuning Police" as a
name for Paul Erlich is at least an understandable misteak, as that's how
it's usually been used.

> But come on now, I was not being very serious here, and I
> think everyone got that because no one flamed me for
> saying that. I was just fooling around, and I don't think
> Monz or Dan were all that serious either. If I thought
> there was any spirit of meanness in Monz's post, I would
> not have chimed in.

Oh, yes, it's a light-hearted thing. I only meant to point out that
whatever spirit it's used in, it could be interpreted as a name for Paul
Erlich. In which case, Jacky's assertion that Paul was never referred to
by name is false.

> > This is what Jeff had suggested at the beginning - the Tribal
> > Thunk - sent privately of course.
>
> Hey look everybody! It's my name.

I should point out that I didn't know about this post before, and so can't
have intended anything by leaving that bit of the quote in.

Graham