Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup metatuning My personality type

The "MBTI" system, and related Keirsey system, group
personalities into 16 types, using four bits, as follows:

Extraversion-Introversion (E or I)
Sensing-iNtuition (S or N)
Thinking-Feeling (T or F)
Judging-Perceiving (J or P)

According to two inventory tests at: http://www.keirsey.com/, I'm
an "Idealist" (NT). They want money to tell you the other two
bits.

A similar test at: http://www.humanmetrics.com/ says I'm an
ENTP.

Reading the descriptions at: http://makeashorterlink.com/?C5F81594
I'd say I'm definitely either an INTJ or ENTP. I can see no reason
why this sort of self-evaluation wouldn't be at least as accurate
as the inventory tests. In fact, like the horroscope, you should
read all the descriptions before drawing any conclusions about the
"accuracy" of yours.

The Gregorc scheme groups learning styles into four types, using
the following two-bit system:

Abstract - Concrete
Sequential - Random

In this scheme, I'm a Concrete Random (according to an inventory
I took in the 7th grade). Reading the descriptions today, this
seems correct. http://www.gregorc.com/

Somewhere on one of these sites, a FAQ correctly points out that
these systems may be only slightly better than arbitrary, but are
still useful if they help us understand ourselves. I think they
can help us do that, and there may be something to the idea that
we form surprisingly simple traits very early on, and express them
in a wide range of behavoirs throughout our lives.

-Carl

🔗jonszanto <JSZANTO@...>

--- In metatuning@y..., "clumma" <carl@l...> wrote:
> According to two inventory tests at: http://www.keirsey.com/, I'm
> an "Idealist" (NT). They want money to tell you the other two
> bits.

I ended up being an ENFP - here are the broad and then detailed
descriptions; I can live with them:

The Idealist Portrait
All Idealists (NFs) share the following core characteristics:

Idealists are enthusiastic, they trust their intuition, yearn for
romance, seek their true self, prize meaningful relationships, and
dream of attaining wisdom. Idealists pride themselves on being
loving, kindhearted, and authentic. Idealists tend to be giving,
trusting, spiritual, and they are focused on personal journeys and
human potentials. Idealists make intense mates, nurturing parents,
and inspirational leaders.

Idealists, as a temperament, are passionately concerned with personal
growth and development. Idealists strive to discover who they are and
how they can become their best possible self--always this quest for
self-knowledge and self-improvement drives their imagination. And
they want to help others make the journey. Idealists are naturally
drawn to working with people, and whether in education or counseling,
in social services or personnel work, in journalism or the ministry,
they are gifted at helping others find their way in life, often
inspiring them to grow as individuals and to fulfill their potentials.

Idealists are rare, making up no more than 8 to 10 percent of the
population. But their ability to inspire people with their enthusiasm
and their idealism has given them influence far beyond their
numbers.

Idealist Portrait of the Champion (ENFP)

Like the other Idealists, Champions are rather rare, say two or three
percent of the population, but even more than the others they
consider intense emotional experiences as being vital to a full life.
Champions have a wide range and variety of emotions, and a great
passion for novelty. They see life as an exciting drama, pregnant
with possibilities for both good and evil, and they want to
experience all the meaningful events and fascinating people in the
world. The most outgoing of the Idealists, Champions often can't wait
to tell others of their extraordinary experiences. Champions can be
tireless in talking with others, like fountains that bubble and
splash, spilling over their own words to get it all out. And usually
this is not simple storytelling; Champions often speak (or write) in
the hope of revealing some truth about human experience, or of
motivating others with their powerful convictions. Their strong drive
to speak out on issues and events, along with their boundless
enthusiasm and natural talent with language, makes them the most
vivacious and inspiring of all the types.

Fiercely individualistic, Champions strive toward a kind of personal
authenticity, and this intention always to be themselves is usually
quite attractive to others. At the same time, Champions have
outstanding intuitive powers and can tell what is going on inside of
others, reading hidden emotions and giving special significance to
words or actions. In fact, Champions are constantly scanning the
social environment, and no intriguing character or silent motive is
likely to escape their attention. Far more than the other Idealists,
Champions are keen and probing observers of the people around them,
and are capable of intense concentration on another individual. Their
attention is rarely passive or casual. On the contrary, Champions
tend to be extra sensitive and alert, always ready for emergencies,
always on the lookout for what's possible.

Champions are good with people and usually have a wide range of
personal relationships. They are warm and full of energy with their
friends. They are likeable and at ease with colleagues, and handle
their employees or students with great skill. They are good in public
and on the telephone, and are so spontaneous and dramatic that others
love to be in their company. Champions are positive, exuberant
people, and often their confidence in the goodness of life and of
human nature makes good things happen.

Cheers,
Jon

🔗monz <joemonz@...>

> From: clumma <carl@...>
> To: <metatuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:49 PM
> Subject: [metatuning] My personality type
>
>
> The "MBTI" system, and related Keirsey system, group
> personalities into 16 types, using four bits, as follows:
>
> Extraversion-Introversion (E or I)
> Sensing-iNtuition (S or N)
> Thinking-Feeling (T or F)
> Judging-Perceiving (J or P)
>
> According to two inventory tests at: http://www.keirsey.com/, I'm
> an "Idealist" (NT). They want money to tell you the other two
> bits.
>
> A similar test at: http://www.humanmetrics.com/ says I'm an
> ENTP.

I took the test at www.humanmetrics.com and this is what
it told me:

>> Your Type is INFP
>> Introverted Intuitive Feeling Perceiving
>> Strength of the preferences %
>> 22 78 11 44
>>
>> You are:
>> . slightly expressed introvert
>> . very expressed intuitive personality
>> . slightly expressed feeling personality
>> . moderately expressed perceiving personality

-monz

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

🔗monz <joemonz@...>

> From: monz <joemonz@...>
> To: <metatuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 12:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [metatuning] My personality type
>
>
> I took the test at www.humanmetrics.com and this is what
> it told me:
>
> >> Your Type is INFP
> >> Introverted Intuitive Feeling Perceiving
> >> Strength of the preferences %
> >> 22 78 11 44
> >>
> >> You are:
> >> . slightly expressed introvert
> >> . very expressed intuitive personality
> >> . slightly expressed feeling personality
> >> . moderately expressed perceiving personality

And here's a fuller description of an INFP type from
<http://keirsey.com/personality/nfip.html>:

>> Healer Idealists are abstract in thought and speech,
>> cooperative in striving for their ends, and informative
>> and introverted in their interpersonal relations. Healers
>> present a seemingly tranquil, and noticiably pleasant
>> face to the world, and though to all appearances they
>> might seem reserved, and even shy, on the inside they
>> are anything but reserved, having a capacity for caring
>> not always found in other types. They care deeply-indeed,
>> passionately-about a few special persons or a favorite
>> cause, and their fervent aim is to bring peace and
>> integrity to their loved ones and the world.
>>
>> Healers have a profound sense of idealism derived from a
>> strong personal morality, and they conceive of the world
>> as an ethical, honorable place. Indeed, to understand
>> iNFps, we must understand their idealism as almost boundless
>> and selfless, inspiring them to make extraordinary sacrifices
>> for someone or something they believe in. The iNFp is the
>> Prince or Princess of fairytale, the King's Champion or
>> Defender of the Faith, like Sir Galahad or Joan of Arc.
>> Healers are found in only 1 percent of the general
>> population, although, at times, their idealism leaves
>> them feeling even more isolated from the rest of humanity.

-monz

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

🔗paulerlich <paul@...>

🔗monz <joemonz@...>

> From: paulerlich <paul@...>
> To: <metatuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 1:14 PM
> Subject: [metatuning] Re: My personality type
>

> --- In metatuning@y..., "paulerlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
> > --- In metatuning@y..., "monz" <joemonz@y...> wrote:
> >
> > > >> Your Type is INFP
> > > >> Introverted Intuitive Feeling Perceiving
> > > >> Strength of the preferences %
> > > >> 22 78 11 44
> >
> > My numbers were approximately 50 100 50 100.
>
> Well, not really . . . what I meant is that I came out about halfway
> between "Introverted" and "Extroverted", very much "Intuitive" rather
> than "Sensing", about halfway between "Feeling" and "Thinking", and
> very much "Perceiving" rather than "Judging".

So then the conclusion is that you and I are quite similar
personality types? Somehow I'm not surprised...

-monz

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

🔗paulerlich <paul@...>

🔗monz <joemonz@...>

🔗paulerlich <paul@...>

🔗jonszanto <JSZANTO@...>

🔗jpehrson2 <jpehrson@...>

--- In metatuning@y..., "paulerlich" <paul@s...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_1416.html#1428

> --- In metatuning@y..., "monz" <joemonz@y...> wrote:
>
> > So then the conclusion is that you and I are quite similar
> > personality types?
>
> If you use this Myers-Briggs system in a _continuous_ way, rather
> than to classify people into 16 _discrete_ categories as some of
the
> tests seem to imply, then yes!

Yeah... that's something people don't talk about. The *numbers*
finally mean more than the *letters* do. I didn't retain a record of
*mine* though regretfully...

(Somewhat suspicious about the entire Myers-Briggs process, too...)

🔗jpehrson2 <jpehrson@...>

--- In metatuning@y..., "paulerlich" <paul@s...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_1416.html#1431

> --- In metatuning@y..., "monz" <joemonz@y...> wrote:
>
> > Right ... I understood that from the beginning and should have
> > mentioned it. So like I said, not surprising, huh?
>
> Right! So Jon S. is a lot like both of us, though perhaps better
> suited for the "public sphere" where, like both of us, he won't
allow
> appearances to overshadow principles.

*My* impression is that anybody who concertizes or who organizes
concerts soon develops from an *I* to an *E*. Or somebody
who "fundraises." Jon and I have *both* done such, I believe.

Frankly, by nature, I think I would also be an *I* but one
becomes "trained out of it" to an *E* in the non-profit art world.

Well, that's *my* take on that!

🔗jonszanto <JSZANTO@...>

🔗jpehrson2 <jpehrson@...>

--- In metatuning@y..., "jonszanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_1416.html#1438

> --- In metatuning@y..., "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> > I took it at work, and was ENFP also, Jon. Perhaps we have more
in
> common than we originally surmised...
>
> OK, I'll come clean: I used a crib sheet to cheat on my personality
> test - I'm actually a consumate and complete jerk, with no socially
> redeeming values! :)
>
> Cheers,
> Jon

That's pretty funny, Jon... :)

Actually, I remember well taking that test, and it seemed at the time
pretty obvious, at least to *me* what they were getting at with each
question... so one could "slant" it a bit if one thougt, for example,
that one was answering in too "nerdy" a manner, or whatever...

That's one reason I don't have complete confidence in the assessments
of this test... I wonder if employers ever use it. I hope not...

🔗kpeck77 <kris.peck@...>

I N T J:

89 44 22 1

Keirsey calls this the "Mastermind" personality. I've taken similar
tests before but never seen it with the numbers. Now I see why
sometimes I come out INTJ and sometimes INTP! I've heard that INTJ
is a very common personality type for engineers. But "They are
rather rare, comprising no more than, say, one percent of the
population."

Fictional INTJ's include:

Gandalf the Grey (J. R. R. Tolkein's Middle Earth books)
Hannibal Lecter (Silence of the Lambs)
Professor Moriarty, Sherlock Holmes' nemesis

hmmm... interesting company. (I wonder how the test was administered
to these characters?)

And a few quotes describe me reasonably well:

"...INTJs are not at all eager to take command of projects or groups,
preferring to stay in the background until others demonstrate their
inability to lead. Once in charge, however, INTJs are the supreme
pragmatists... In a sense, INTJs approach reality as they would a
giant chess board..."

"...many also find it useful to learn to simulate some degree of
surface conformism in order to mask their inherent
unconventionality..."

"...many INTJs do not readily grasp the social rituals; for instance,
they tend to have little patience and less understanding of such
things as small talk and flirtation (which most types consider half
the fun of a relationship). To complicate matters, INTJs are usually
extremely private people, and can often be naturally impassive as
well, which makes them easy to misread and misunderstand. Perhaps the
most fundamental problem, however, is that INTJs really want people to
make _sense_...." But: "...those relationships which ultimately do
become established with an INTJ tend to be characterized by their
robustness, stability, and good communications."

🔗graham@...

In-Reply-To: <a1uvn4+c5u9@...>
kpeck77 wrote:

> I N T J:
>
> 89 44 22 1
>
> Keirsey calls this the "Mastermind" personality. I've taken similar
> tests before but never seen it with the numbers. Now I see why
> sometimes I come out INTJ and sometimes INTP! I've heard that INTJ
> is a very common personality type for engineers. But "They are
> rather rare, comprising no more than, say, one percent of the
> population."

I think I got Mastermind last time these things came round. What was the
URL again? Of course, if you have, say, 100 personality types each
covering one percent or so of the population, everybody will belong to
at least one of them. So how rare is this, really? How come so many of
us are on the tuning lists?

Graham

🔗paulerlich <paul@...>

🔗kpeck77 <kris.peck@...>

>"They are
> > rather rare, comprising no more than, say, one percent of the
> > population."
> ...
> Of course, if you have, say, 100 personality types each
> covering one percent or so of the population, everybody will belong
to
> at least one of them. So how rare is this, really?

Graham and Paul-
Here's a breakdown I found, apparently lifted from the _Please
Understand Me_ book:

ISTJ - 6% ISFJ - 6% INFJ - 1% INTJ - 1%
ISTP - 5% ISFP - 5% INFP - 1% INTP - 1%
ESTP - 13% ESFP - 13% ENFP - 5% ENTP - 5%
ESTJ - 13% ESFJ - 13% ENFJ - 5% ENTJ - 5%

We intuitive introverts are, sadly, a tiny minority.

After reading some of the other personality descriptions, I concluded
that INTP describes me much better than INTJ (which tested borderline
anyway with only a 1% preference...) Also seems the ideal
personality for a microtonal theorist:

"INTPs thrive on systems. Understanding, exploring, mastering, and
manipulating systems can overtake the INTP's conscious thought. This
fascination for logical wholes and their inner workings is often
expressed in a detachment from the environment, a concentration where
time is forgotten and extraneous stimuli are held at bay.
Accomplishing a task or goal with this knowledge is secondary."

Take whatever you want from that last sentence...

The typelogic.com description is almost frighteningly accurate for me:
http://www.typelogic.com/intp.html

There is also a group for INTP's at:
http://www.intp.org

🔗X. J. Scott <xjscott@...>

[Kris said:]

> After reading some of the other personality descriptions, I
> concluded
> that INTP describes me much better than INTJ (which tested
> borderline
> anyway with only a 1% preference...)

Whew!

That J thing was freakin me out.

J's are conventional and particular.
P's are laid back and more fun.

IMO anyway...

> "INTPs thrive on systems. Understanding, exploring,
> mastering, and manipulating systems can overtake the INTP's
> conscious thought. This fascination for logical wholes and
> their inner workings is often expressed in a detachment from
> the environment, a concentration where time is forgotten and
> extraneous stimuli are held at bay. Accomplishing a task or
> goal with this knowledge is secondary."

Surveys showed that INTP was the predominant type on
the internet, at least until AOL opened it up for the
general population. Which was a surprise to the people
at the time, many who had gone their lives without
meeting another INTP -- which is actually the rarest
of all the types, even among the NPs.

Nikolai Tesla was the archetypal INTP.

INTPs are archetechtonicists -- creators of systems.

Not uncommon for INTPs to be mystics; they can
see profound meaning in things others see as
mundane.

It's like being on LSD without over having taken any.

INTPs can be the first up against the firing wall
during purges.

INTPs, much more so than other types, tend to be
fascinated by personality types.

> Take whatever you want from that last sentence...
>
> The typelogic.com description is almost frighteningly
accurate
> for me:
> http://www.typelogic.com/intp.html
>
> There is also a group for INTP's at:
> http://www.intp.org

Thanks Kris.

🔗paulerlich <paul@...>

--- In metatuning@y..., "X. J. Scott" <xjscott@e...> wrote:

> > "INTPs thrive on systems. Understanding, exploring,
> > mastering, and manipulating systems can overtake the INTP's
> > conscious thought. This fascination for logical wholes and
> > their inner workings is often expressed in a detachment from
> > the environment, a concentration where time is forgotten and
> > extraneous stimuli are held at bay. Accomplishing a task or
> > goal with this knowledge is secondary."
>
> Surveys showed that INTP was the predominant type on
> the internet, at least until AOL opened it up for the
> general population. Which was a surprise to the people
> at the time, many who had gone their lives without
> meeting another INTP -- which is actually the rarest
> of all the types, even among the NPs.
>
> Nikolai Tesla was the archetypal INTP.
>
> INTPs are archetechtonicists -- creators of systems.
>
> Not uncommon for INTPs to be mystics; they can
> see profound meaning in things others see as
> mundane.
>
> It's like being on LSD without over having taken any.

Now an INTP on LSD -- there's something! Especially one playing
music . . .

> INTPs can be the first up against the firing wall
> during purges.

Are Jews genetically predisposed toward a larger proportion of INTPs?
Just a thought -- please ignore if such thoughts offend you.

> INTPs, much more so than other types, tend to be
> fascinated by personality types.

Well, I'm not _too_ fascinated by this stuff, but when I sent Jon
Szanto a message entitled "Please Understand Me" and containing the
INTP profile from "Please Understand Me", it made for a major
breakthrough in Jon's understanding me . . . and he's been a bit less
prone to put me up against the firing wall.

🔗paulerlich <paul@...>

--- In metatuning@y..., "kpeck77" <kris.peck@t...> wrote:

> Here's a breakdown I found, apparently lifted from the _Please
> Understand Me_ book:
>
> ISTJ - 6% ISFJ - 6% INFJ - 1% INTJ - 1%
> ISTP - 5% ISFP - 5% INFP - 1% INTP - 1%
> ESTP - 13% ESFP - 13% ENFP - 5% ENTP - 5%
> ESTJ - 13% ESFJ - 13% ENFJ - 5% ENTJ - 5%
>
> We intuitive introverts are, sadly, a tiny minority.

There's a rather different breakdown here:

http://www.bac-ground.com/personalities/peopleInTheNews.html

INTPs are 3% of the population according to this. Typical examples are

Albert Einstein
Stephen Wolfram
Alan Greenspan
Tim Berners-Lee
David Keirsey

Who's Tim Berners-Lee? Director of the World-Wide-Web consortium.

🔗kpeck77 <kris.peck@...>

--- In metatuning@y..., "X. J. Scott" <xjscott@e...> wrote:
> Nikolai Tesla was the archetypal INTP.

Of course A. Einstein is the one they like to highlight...

> It's like being on LSD without over having taken any.

I once had a friend tell me I was like someone on drugs but without
any drugs, or something like that. (Sometimes it's hard to know
whether to take comments like that in a positive or negative way, or
neither...)

> INTPs, much more so than other types, tend to be
> fascinated by personality types.

I guess combination of fascination with systems and basic narcissism
would explain that, wouldn't it?

Actually the "detailed description" of INTP's at intp.org is
unbelievably lengthy and detailed. Whoever wrote that was obviously
obsessed with the topic. Incidentally, there is some interesting
discussion about INTP's and Music, starting about 3/4 through this
article:

http://www.intp.org/intprofile.html

My personality type

🔗clumma <carl@...>

🔗jonszanto <JSZANTO@...>

🔗monz <joemonz@...>

🔗monz <joemonz@...>

🔗paulerlich <paul@...>

🔗paulerlich <paul@...>

🔗monz <joemonz@...>

🔗paulerlich <paul@...>

🔗monz <joemonz@...>

🔗paulerlich <paul@...>

🔗jonszanto <JSZANTO@...>

🔗jpehrson2 <jpehrson@...>

🔗jpehrson2 <jpehrson@...>

🔗jpehrson2 <jpehrson@...>

🔗jonszanto <JSZANTO@...>

🔗jpehrson2 <jpehrson@...>

🔗kpeck77 <kris.peck@...>

🔗graham@...

🔗paulerlich <paul@...>

🔗paulerlich <paul@...>

🔗kpeck77 <kris.peck@...>

🔗X. J. Scott <xjscott@...>

🔗paulerlich <paul@...>

🔗paulerlich <paul@...>

🔗kpeck77 <kris.peck@...>

🔗graham@...