Re: trust music

from that other list: /tuning/topicId_24185.html#24268

[I wrote:]
>>For myself, I am very wary of letting the head override the ear.
>>The head is, IMHO, what is wrong (to my taste) with the "classical"
>>works of the 20th century. If it requires explanation before they
>>play the music, I know I'm in trouble.

[Joseph Pehrson wrote:]
>This is a rather, 'er... large category, don't you believe? Exactly
>which composers are you including in this category??

>Further commentary on "metatuning," not here...

Oh, I'm terribly, shockingly ignorant. I've been to a number of
"world premiers" that the ASO has put on, and I'm afraid I can't
remember a thing about them, including the names of the composers,
except that I thought it was terrible junk. Didn't take ahold of me as
I demand that music do.

'Course, I'm an awful retrograde kinda guy. I probably would have
howled insults at the premier of "Rite of Spring", a work which I've
come around to liking. So you mustn't take anything I say too
seriously. I _would_ suggest to any composer that it is vitally
important to engage on some kind of visceral level, if your goal is
anything but making an intellectual point and sneering at how uneducated
the masses are when they walk away.

I like lots of 20th century composers, actually. Including Menotti,
Copeland, Gershwin, Ravel (pick your century here), Stravinsky,
Rachmaninoff, Shostakovich, Bernstein, Rutter. I admire the music of
many who wrote musicals (not strictly "classical", I suppose). I admire
many singer/songwriters of the 20th century (ditto).

JdL

--- In metatuning@y..., "John A. deLaubenfels" <jdl@a...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_140.html#140

> from that other list:
/tuning/topicId_24185.html#24268
>
> [I wrote:]
> >>For myself, I am very wary of letting the head override the ear.
> >>The head is, IMHO, what is wrong (to my taste) with
the "classical"
> >>works of the 20th century. If it requires explanation before
they
> >>play the music, I know I'm in trouble.
>
> [Joseph Pehrson wrote:]
> >This is a rather, 'er... large category, don't you believe?
Exactly
> >which composers are you including in this category??
>
> >Further commentary on "metatuning," not here...
>
> Oh, I'm terribly, shockingly ignorant. I've been to a number of
> "world premiers" that the ASO has put on, and I'm afraid I can't
> remember a thing about them, including the names of the composers,
> except that I thought it was terrible junk. Didn't take ahold of
me as
> I demand that music do.
>
> 'Course, I'm an awful retrograde kinda guy. I probably would have
> howled insults at the premier of "Rite of Spring", a work which
I've
> come around to liking. So you mustn't take anything I say too
> seriously. I _would_ suggest to any composer that it is vitally
> important to engage on some kind of visceral level, if your goal is
> anything but making an intellectual point and sneering at how
uneducated
> the masses are when they walk away.
>
> I like lots of 20th century composers, actually. Including Menotti,
> Copeland, Gershwin, Ravel (pick your century here), Stravinsky,
> Rachmaninoff, Shostakovich, Bernstein, Rutter. I admire the music
of
> many who wrote musicals (not strictly "classical", I suppose). I
admire
> many singer/songwriters of the 20th century (ditto).
>
> JdL

Well, John, you've refined your set of composers here (Copland has
no "e" by the way). I assume you might want to include Milhaud,
Hindemith and Bartok in this set?? They HAVE to be
pretty "immediate," no?? I agree there's been a lot of crappy music
written in the 20th century... but that goes for ANY century, in my
opinion.

Since there are more people living now the chances are, as you know
being a scientist, that there would be MORE talented composers now
than previously... It's just statistics...

_________ _______ ______
Joseph Pehrson

[Joseph Pehrson wrote:]
>Well, John, you've refined your set of composers here (Copland has
>no "e" by the way).

Right! I keep making that same mistake! Is that the only one I
misspelled?

>I assume you might want to include Milhaud,
>Hindemith and Bartok in this set??

Gotta confess, I'm not heard Milhaud or Hindemith, to the best of my
knowledge. Bartok I like, yes.

>They HAVE to be
>pretty "immediate," no?? I agree there's been a lot of crappy music
>written in the 20th century... but that goes for ANY century, in my
>opinion.

Yes, that is a good point. We don't hear so much about the crap of the
past because the filter of time has already largely washed it into well-
deserved oblivion.

>Since there are more people living now the chances are, as you know
>being a scientist, that there would be MORE talented composers now
>than previously... It's just statistics...

I think I remember hearing that one person in 20 who has ever been alive
is alive today - is that right? So that still means that 19/20 of
the compositional talent has gone to past music. Some of which is, of
course, LONG gone. However, I also believe that there are productive
times and unproductive times for music. The period 1770 thru 1830
(boundaries chosen arbitrarily) was extremely productive, IMHO. As for
the period 1900 thru 1999? Including "popular" music, extremely
productive, I believe. Of course, what is now "classical" music was
"popular" music when it was young. Maybe that's an important clue for
us today!

JdL

--- In metatuning@y..., "John A. deLaubenfels" <jdl@a...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_140.html#142

John...

Listen to Darius Milhaud, and then get back to me...

Try "The Creation of the World..." (La Creation du Monde)

You won't be disappointed.

Milhaud uses a *lot* of "polytonality," but it's VERY rooted...

probably would sound good in some kind of "adaptive just" as well...

best,

Joe

_________ _______ _____
Joseph Pehrson

[Joseph Pehrson wrote:]
>John...

>Listen to Darius Milhaud, and then get back to me...

>Try "The Creation of the World..." (La Creation du Monde)

Thanks for the recommendation! I'll check it out when I get a chance.

JdL

John,

For me, no stone goes unturned in the search for music that inspires
and enthralls me. Among others, that is one reason why I've hung out
on the tuning list (for instance, my most recent pleasure was
discovering Jacky Ligon's "Galunlati"). But the music might be in
tiny cracks and crevices, and you won't always know where or when
you'll get it.

A few years ago, I had the unfortunate sentence of being in a waiting
room for hours as a loved one had surgery. I was freaking pretty
hard, so I had an FM radio on the local classical station. I missed
the beginning of a broadcast, but heard most of the first and all of
the other three movements of a symphony. In so many ways is seemed
familiar: maybe Brahms, but, no, it has a pastoral quality, early
Elgar? what? An unknown composer, being re-discovered?

Turned out to be a symphony by late-Victorian British composer Sir
Charles Villiers Stanford, one of 9 (I think) symphonies he wrote, in
addition to much sturdy choral music, evocative English song and
dramatic cycles, and etc. I ended up collecting quite a bit, and
subsequently filling in an unknown hole in my fondness for
English/Scottish/Irish composers, especially of this era. (BTW, he
taught Elgar and many of the later, more well-known British composers
as an instructor at Cambridge).

So there is stuff out there (I'm not saying Stanford's stuff is for
you, but I enjoy Symphony No. 5 in D major, as well as "Songs of the
Sea and Fleet"). Don't stop, and this is only some of the older
stuff -- I don't dare ask you to try Icebreaker (sort of an
English "Bang On A Can")!

Cheers,
Jon

Jon Szanto wrote:> I don't dare ask you to try Icebreaker (sort of an> English "Bang On A Can")!First band I saw live!Graham

--- In metatuning@y..., "Graham Breed" <graham@m...> wrote:
> Jon Szanto wrote:> I don't dare ask you to try Icebreaker (sort of
an> English "Bang On A Can")!First band I saw live!Graham

Hay! That is a hoot!

I hadn't checked on them in a while (they don't have very good CD
distribution, and I know they don't tour to the States), so when Bob
Gilmore was here I asked about them (the leader is a good friend of
his). He said they are still intact, and still do occasional
projects, though they are almost all in other musical endeavors as
well. Bob also mentioned that they have just recorded a new CD of
music by a Dutch composer (other than Andriessen) that is even more
uncompromising than anything else -- definitely NOT for JdL!!!

Thanks for sharing about IB, I think they (as players) must be
spectacular live. In a British way, of course... :)

Cheers,
Jon

----- Original Message -----
From: <JSZANTO@...>
To: <metatuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 11:58 AM
Subject: [metatuning] Re: trust music

> --- In metatuning@y..., "Graham Breed" <graham@m...> wrote:
> > Jon Szanto wrote:> I don't dare ask you to try Icebreaker (sort of
> an> English "Bang On A Can")!First band I saw live!Graham
>
> Hay! That is a hoot!
>
> I hadn't checked on them in a while (they don't have very good CD
> distribution, and I know they don't tour to the States),

I heard/saw them at Bang on a Can in '94 in NYC.

David Beardsley

D,
--- In metatuning@y..., "David Beardsley" <db@b...> wrote:
> I heard/saw them at Bang on a Can in '94 in NYC.

Meant to attach ..."often" to that post. BOAC and IB...inbreeding!
Did you like them?

J

----- Original Message -----
From: <JSZANTO@...>
To: <metatuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 1:15 PM
Subject: [metatuning] Re: trust music

> D,
> --- In metatuning@y..., "David Beardsley" <db@b...> wrote:
> > I heard/saw them at Bang on a Can in '94 in NYC.
>
> Meant to attach ..."often" to that post. BOAC and IB...inbreeding!
> Did you like them?

Sure. They DO sound a bit like Bang on a Can.

David Beardsley

>
>
>

D,

--- In metatuning@y..., "David Beardsley" <db@b...> wrote:
> Sure. They DO sound a bit like Bang on a Can.

When I heard their first CD, I honestly thought it could have been
BOAC in Bond Street pin-stripe suits, sipping tea and smacking anvils
with British accents! I have a fondness for this David Lang piece
they play, "Slow Movement", which I doubt many bands would tackle.
Makes me think of Morton Feldman's children if they had gone out and
played in the mud and grime and dirt, and came back in and rolled all
over the kitchen floor.

I better drink some more coffee this morning...

J

----- Original Message -----
From: <JSZANTO@...>
> D,
>
> --- In metatuning@y..., "David Beardsley" <db@b...> wrote:
> > Sure. They DO sound a bit like Bang on a Can.
>
> When I heard their first CD, I honestly thought it could have been
> BOAC in Bond Street pin-stripe suits, sipping tea and smacking anvils
> with British accents! I have a fondness for this David Lang piece
> they play, "Slow Movement", which I doubt many bands would tackle.
> Makes me think of Morton Feldman's children if they had gone out and
> played in the mud and grime and dirt, and came back in and rolled all
> over the kitchen floor

Smile - interesting take on that piece. Dark, brooding and tense.
Sounds like the return of the son of some famous minimalists.
Some microtones could really make that piece shimmer.

db