Re: MMM and non12comp

Hello, Joe and Aaron and everyone, and please let me quickly explain
my idea for non12comp, possibly illustrated, if imperfectly by the
posts mentioned here.

As nicely summed up here by Aaron, my idea is to have non12comp as a kind
of place often focusing on the "whys" of applying a given tuning to a
given piece or type of style: more theoretical than MMM would typically
be, but more compositionally oriented than the general Tuning List is by
definition (although such discussions would, of course, be on-topic there
as well).

For example, one topic which Aaron got me interested in is the use of
2-3-7 or 2-3-7-9 JI systems inviting an approach other than that in
systems with chains of 11 or more "regular" fifths. I posted some
ideas relating, for example, to "xentonational" versions of certain
Near Eastern tetrachords and maqamat or modes, including some
mutations or modulations one could make from one pattern to another (a
typical element of Near Eastern, or specifically Arabic, technique).

When I said that my posts on non12comp might "imperfectly" illustrate
my proposal, I meant more specifically that I would like to be able to
post musical examples, especially improvisational ones, based on my
actual keyboard playing. I'm in a situation where my sound card is, in
theory, already set up in Linux, but I need to set up output (to
speakers or headphones) and synthesizer input. As someone advised me,
it might be a question of setting up the right audio cables (and
learning the syntax to refine mixer settings and the like).

Also, and very important to these groups, I would like to try out some
programs to play .mp3 files -- I have some installed, so it's a
question of setting up headphones or speakers to hear the output.
Obviously the ability to hear what is going on in MMM and non12comp
would help out a lot.

Anyway, my idea is that MMM would continue to focus mainly on the
music itself -- and on some evaluations of it -- while non12comp could
get more into "compositional theory." At times I've discussions of
topics here like counterpoint theory, and those could be referred to
non12comp, maybe with references posted here for those interested if
that would be consistent with the style of MMM.

Most appreciatively,

Margo Schulter
mschulter@...

Hello Margo!
I think this is a good idea. This part of the puzzle has always been missing in the discussion.
At least for me personally that a tuning exist has never been enough , it is always it peculiar properties
that makes some possible (usually different than 12 ET).
Whether it is having a consonance environment without a strong tonal center as with the eikosany ,
scales where the tones are equally consonant/dissonant as in the Scales of Mt. Meru ( recurrent sequences),
or in your own case, investigating tunings where Gothic harmonic thought is better realized.

Such qualities have inspired enough interest to cause the actual building of instruments and a body of work.
A working toward a time when our choice of tuning reflects the dynamic qualities of our compositional vision.
Margo Schulter wrote:

>Hello, Joe and Aaron and everyone, and please let me quickly explain
>my idea for non12comp, possibly illustrated, if imperfectly by the
>posts mentioned here.
>
>As nicely summed up here by Aaron, my idea is to have non12comp as a kind
>of place often focusing on the "whys" of applying a given tuning to a
>given piece or type of style: more theoretical than MMM would typically
>be, but more compositionally oriented than the general Tuning List is by
>definition (although such discussions would, of course, be on-topic there
>as well).
>
>For example, one topic which Aaron got me interested in is the use of
>2-3-7 or 2-3-7-9 JI systems inviting an approach other than that in
>systems with chains of 11 or more "regular" fifths. I posted some
>ideas relating, for example, to "xentonational" versions of certain
>Near Eastern tetrachords and maqamat or modes, including some
>mutations or modulations one could make from one pattern to another (a
>typical element of Near Eastern, or specifically Arabic, technique).
>
>When I said that my posts on non12comp might "imperfectly" illustrate
>my proposal, I meant more specifically that I would like to be able to
>post musical examples, especially improvisational ones, based on my
>actual keyboard playing. I'm in a situation where my sound card is, in
>theory, already set up in Linux, but I need to set up output (to
>speakers or headphones) and synthesizer input. As someone advised me,
>it might be a question of setting up the right audio cables (and
>learning the syntax to refine mixer settings and the like).
>
>Also, and very important to these groups, I would like to try out some
>programs to play .mp3 files -- I have some installed, so it's a
>question of setting up headphones or speakers to hear the output.
>Obviously the ability to hear what is going on in MMM and non12comp
>would help out a lot.
>
>Anyway, my idea is that MMM would continue to focus mainly on the
>music itself -- and on some evaluations of it -- while non12comp could
>get more into "compositional theory." At times I've discussions of
>topics here like counterpoint theory, and those could be referred to
>non12comp, maybe with references posted here for those interested if
>that would be consistent with the style of MMM.
>
>Most appreciatively,
>
>Margo Schulter
>mschulter@...
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

On Monday 29 November 2004 12:30 am, Kraig Grady wrote:

> Whether it is having a consonance environment without a strong tonal
> center as with the eikosany.

Could some one explain why the eikosany is 'without a strong tonal center'?
By my way of thinking, this would mean that it is short on 3/2's, but that
doesnt appear to be the case....plus, tonal center is as much a function of
repetition, etc. as of other factors, wouldn't you agree?

> scales where the tones are equally consonant/dissonant as in the Scales
> of Mt. Meru ( recurrent sequences),

Kraig, I looked at Wilson's notes on these, and was confused. I got that these
were Fibonacci-related, or quasi-Fibonacci-related, but I don't understand
how one goes about building a set of JI ratios from this stuff. Can you or
someone else who understands this give an example?

Best,
Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.akjmusic.com
http://www.dividebypi.com

Aaron K. Johnson wrote:

>On Monday 29 November 2004 12:30 am, Kraig Grady wrote:
>
> >
>> Whether it is having a consonance environment without a strong tonal
>>center as with the eikosany.
>> >>
>
>Could some one explain why the eikosany is 'without a strong tonal center'?
>By my way of thinking, this would mean that it is short on 3/2's, but that >doesn't appear to be the case....plus, tonal center is as much a function of >repetition, etc. as of other factors, wouldn't you agree?
>
of course one could drone out on any tone and make any scale tonal. The thing is with the eikosany is that if you use it as it naturally unfolds leads one to other tonal point quite quickly. I think alison has some examples around that illustrate this. My creation of the worlds exploited this quality of the eikosany ( as practically most of my work before 1994)

> scales where the tones are equally consonant/dissonant as in the Scales
>of Mt. Meru ( recurrent sequences),
> >
>
>Kraig, I looked at Wilson's notes on these, and was confused. I got that these >were Fibonacci-related, or quasi-Fibonacci-related, but I don't understand >how one goes about building a set of JI ratios from this stuff. Can you or >someone else who understands this give an example?
>
threat the numbers has harmonics. my ensemble of Meta slendro instruments uses Meru number 3 starting on 7 and going up to 200 which gives you a good 12 tone scale. More often than not one drops the lower numbers cause these are more 'seeds' of the series. one could also just make a scale out of the ratio that it converges on also, as well as treating the scale subharmonically. Personally i like the terrain where the convergence hasn't been reached to far. This gives the most variety of subscales from your set. I had a 12 hour work day today so pardon if i am too lazy to look up which of the meru set of papers includes the zigzag charts that show you the MOS scales formed by each series, but it is a good idea to have this in mind. It is also possible to "reseed" the series in the same way you can the classic fibonacci series. more on all this later >
>Best,
>Aaron Krister Johnson
>http://www.akjmusic.com
>http://www.dividebypi.com
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

Hi Aaron,

I've got some musical geometry pages on-line which may help
for the CPS sets.

I did them some years ago but I've just had a look through them
and updated them, improved the expo a bit and things.

I've done a post about them to non12comp, following
Margo's suggestion to use non12comp for a
theory / composition meeting ground type
forum.

Or, just to say it briefly here as well, they show
the symmetry of the figures which is what makes them
scales with no single tonal centre - or perhaps you
could say every face is a tonal centre. Everything I mention
in the post is accessible by following links from:
http://www.tunesmithy.netfirms.com/tunes/mus_geom/musical_geometry.htm

Robert

i might as well add i have a papers here on the eikosany
http://anaphoria.com/eikopapers.html
also see Erv's papers in the Wilson Archive

Robert Walker wrote:

>Hi Aaron,
>
>I've got some musical geometry pages on-line which may help
>for the CPS sets.
>
>I did them some years ago but I've just had a look through them
>and updated them, improved the expo a bit and things.
>
>I've done a post about them to non12comp, following
>Margo's suggestion to use non12comp for a
>theory / composition meeting ground type
>forum.
>
>Or, just to say it briefly here as well, they show
>the symmetry of the figures which is what makes them
>scales with no single tonal centre - or perhaps you
>could say every face is a tonal centre. Everything I mention
>in the post is accessible by following links from:
>http://www.tunesmithy.netfirms.com/tunes/mus_geom/musical_geometry.htm
>
>Robert
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

Hi all,

Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> wrote:

> of course one could drone out on any tone and make any scale tonal.

I couldn't help it! I'm sorry! Hee!

I had to ask myself: What would Big Bill Broonzy do with this guitar? What would Taj Mahal think? Is it a canoe paddle? Firewood? :-)

[It's a Strat fretted in the 1.3.7.9.11.15 Eikosany]

So I set out to lay down my Turkey Day Post-Election Blues, and this track came out. I hope it's a reaction (in kind?) to reactionary "politics"
hereabouts, or something like that. [Not to mention Keb' Mo'...aiee!] Look out, Nashville, here I come. If you can't beat 'em...&c...

Anyway, here's the link:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/petemcraymusic.htm

Dig the Septimal Whole Tone Singers! (ps I "cheated"!)

I thought it was just a septimal 'dorian' kind of thing but it's actually a little weirder (?) than that. According to my reckoning it's actually:

1/1 8/7 90/77 4/3 3/2 12/7 135/77 2/1

[Or: D# F F+ G# A# C C+ D#]

I'd be most grateful for any questions, comments, kudos, critiques, or condemnations. [And unspecified (as yet) bonuses given to anyone who calls the only (deliberate) reference in it!]

Thanks for all y'all be doin'!

Pete

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "petesfriedclams@s..." <petesfriedclams@s...>
wrote:

>
> Anyway, here's the link:
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/petemcraymusic.htm
>
> Dig the Septimal Whole Tone Singers! (ps I "cheated"!)

That's tasty. How did you cheat? It was only slightly evident to me in the middle with the
sustained vocal chords. Heh, vocal chords.

> I thought it was just a septimal 'dorian' kind of thing but it's actually a little weirder (?)
than that. According to my reckoning it's actually:
>
> 1/1 8/7 90/77 4/3 3/2 12/7 135/77 2/1

The 12/7 is really something else. Three cheers for 12/7. In fact, hows about we all do
something nice for 12/7 on Dec. 7?

Glad to be able to hear some of your music!
Jacob

I played reference tones in time on their own track, then turned off everything but the drums, and sang along on another track until it was in tune. Then I edited.................................................................. ;-)

I got the idea from a guy who found it necessary to do the same 'trick' in '12-equal'! ???

Thanks!

Jacob <jbarton@...> wrote:

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "petesfriedclams@s..."

wrote:

>
> Anyway, here's the link:
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/petemcraymusic.htm
>
> Dig the Septimal Whole Tone Singers! (ps I "cheated"!)

That's tasty. How did you cheat? It was only slightly evident to me in the middle with the
sustained vocal chords. Heh, vocal chords.

> I thought it was just a septimal 'dorian' kind of thing but it's actually a little weirder (?)
than that. According to my reckoning it's actually:
>
> 1/1 8/7 90/77 4/3 3/2 12/7 135/77 2/1

The 12/7 is really something else. Three cheers for 12/7. In fact, hows about we all do
something nice for 12/7 on Dec. 7?

Glad to be able to hear some of your music!
Jacob

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 11:29 PM 11/29/2004, you wrote:
>
>Hi all,
>
>Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> wrote:
>
>> of course one could drone out on any tone and make any scale tonal.
>
>
>I couldn't help it! I'm sorry! Hee!
>
>I had to ask myself: What would Big Bill Broonzy do with this guitar? What
>would Taj Mahal think? Is it a canoe paddle? Firewood? :-)
>
>[It's a Strat fretted in the 1.3.7.9.11.15 Eikosany]
>
>So I set out to lay down my Turkey Day Post-Election Blues, and this track
>came out. I hope it's a reaction (in kind?) to reactionary "politics"
>hereabouts, or something like that. [Not to mention Keb' Mo'...aiee!] Look
>out, Nashville, here I come. If you can't beat 'em...&c...
>
>Anyway, here's the link:
>
>http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/petemcraymusic.htm

That's really quite good!

-Carl

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Margo Schulter <mschulter@c...>
wrote:
> Hello, Joe and Aaron and everyone, and please let me quickly explain
> my idea for non12comp, possibly illustrated, if imperfectly by the
> posts mentioned here.
>
> As nicely summed up here by Aaron, my idea is to have non12comp as a
> kind of place often focusing on the "whys" of applying a given
> tuning to a given piece or type of style: more theoretical than MMM
> would typically be, but more compositionally oriented than the
> general Tuning List is by> definition (although such discussions
> would, of course, be on-topic there as well).
>

>
> Anyway, my idea is that MMM would continue to focus mainly on the
> music itself -- and on some evaluations of it -- while non12comp
> could get more into "compositional theory." At times I've
> discussions of topics here like counterpoint theory, and those could
> be referred to non12comp, maybe with references posted here for
> those interested if that would be consistent with the style of MMM.
>

Hmm - non12comp as kind of in-between of MMM and Tuning? Or as what
Tuning used to be before MMM was created?
Somehow these differences appear quite subtle to me, and I am not
really sure whether an additional group is really needed...
But - since non12comp already exists, why not keep it...

Hans Straub

Pete,

{you wrote...}
>Anyway, here's the link:
>
>http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/petemcraymusic.htm

Any idea why your piece on SoundClick doesn't include a direct mp3 download? I usually do that because the streaming isn't great...

Cheers,
Jon

Pete, as a fellow microtonal guitarist I must say I'm very
impressed. Obviously microtonal, yet very natural. I wonder how
many "casual" blues listeners would notice that it's not in 12?

I'd like to know more about the design of your guitar. As I
understand it, the Eikosany you mention is a form of JI. Did you
have to use split or bent frets at all? If so, where did you get it
fretted? If not, how did you avoid it in the design? And most
importantly, do you have any pictures available?

-Igliashon

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "petesfriedclams@s..."
<petesfriedclams@s...> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
>
> > of course one could drone out on any tone and make any scale
tonal.
>
>
> I couldn't help it! I'm sorry! Hee!
>
> I had to ask myself: What would Big Bill Broonzy do with this
guitar? What would Taj Mahal think? Is it a canoe paddle?
Firewood? :-)
>
> [It's a Strat fretted in the 1.3.7.9.11.15 Eikosany]
>
> So I set out to lay down my Turkey Day Post-Election Blues, and
this track came out. I hope it's a reaction (in kind?) to
reactionary "politics"
> hereabouts, or something like that. [Not to mention Keb'
Mo'...aiee!] Look out, Nashville, here I come. If you can't
beat 'em...&c...
>
> Anyway, here's the link:
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/petemcraymusic.htm
>
> Dig the Septimal Whole Tone Singers! (ps I "cheated"!)
>
> I thought it was just a septimal 'dorian' kind of thing but it's
actually a little weirder (?) than that. According to my reckoning
it's actually:
>
> 1/1 8/7 90/77 4/3 3/2 12/7 135/77 2/1
>
> [Or: D# F F+ G# A# C C+ D#]
>
> I'd be most grateful for any questions, comments, kudos,
critiques, or condemnations. [And unspecified (as yet) bonuses
given to anyone who calls the only (deliberate) reference in it!]
>
> Thanks for all y'all be doin'!
>
> Pete
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pete,

Very nice.....I could see people groove to this kind of thing in a
southwestern college town cafe-like Sante Fe, where my wife went to school. I
think she'd like it, too!

More!

-Aaron.

On Tuesday 30 November 2004 01:29 am, petesfriedclams@... wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> wrote:
> > of course one could drone out on any tone and make any scale tonal.
>
> I couldn't help it! I'm sorry! Hee!
>
> I had to ask myself: What would Big Bill Broonzy do with this guitar?
> What would Taj Mahal think? Is it a canoe paddle? Firewood? :-)
>
> [It's a Strat fretted in the 1.3.7.9.11.15 Eikosany]
>
> So I set out to lay down my Turkey Day Post-Election Blues, and this track
> came out. I hope it's a reaction (in kind?) to reactionary "politics"
> hereabouts, or something like that. [Not to mention Keb' Mo'...aiee!]
> Look out, Nashville, here I come. If you can't beat 'em...&c...
>
> Anyway, here's the link:
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/petemcraymusic.htm
>
> Dig the Septimal Whole Tone Singers! (ps I "cheated"!)
>
> I thought it was just a septimal 'dorian' kind of thing but it's actually a
> little weirder (?) than that. According to my reckoning it's actually:
>
> 1/1 8/7 90/77 4/3 3/2 12/7 135/77 2/1
>
> [Or: D# F F+ G# A# C C+ D#]
>
> I'd be most grateful for any questions, comments, kudos, critiques, or
> condemnations. [And unspecified (as yet) bonuses given to anyone who calls
> the only (deliberate) reference in it!]
>
> Thanks for all y'all be doin'!
>
> Pete
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--
Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.akjmusic.com
http://www.dividebypi.com

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"

/makemicromusic/topicId_8100.html#8117

<JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> Pete,
>
> {you wrote...}
> >Anyway, here's the link:
> >
> >http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/petemcraymusic.htm
>
> Any idea why your piece on SoundClick doesn't include a direct mp3
> download? I usually do that because the streaming isn't great...
>
> Cheers,
> Jon

***That's because on SoundClick you can set it so that it doesn't
include that, if you don't want people to download...

JP

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "petesfriedclams@s..."
<petesfriedclams@s...> wrote:

> [It's a Strat fretted in the 1.3.7.9.11.15 Eikosany]

Oh, it's a Strat! I guess I heard right then, Pete -- electric. By
the way, are you familiar with Dave Keenan's Eikosany guitar design?
It should allow you to much more easily play all 30 Eikosany Tetrads
than would be possible with the (two-note) open tuning you're using,
yet it still manages this with straight-across frets! The trick is in
the "microtempering" which shouldn't be much of a philosophical
conundrum since, as you say, so much of the intonation is in the
fingers anyway . . . but should you decide to get another Eikosany
guitar, I think this is something you should consider, at least as a
starting point for your own original design.

Hi Paul,

Thanks!

No, I have NOT seen this design and would very much like to!
I'm hard at work on a new little Cooder/Kottke-style diddle (and my
Strat needs maintenance, too...luckily I just (!) found a guy up
here who seems to 'know the drill' re: microcult geetar!)

Just when I thought I'd made peace with 12-equal, this guitar comes
back to haunt me! Now if I play the same riffs on a 'normal'
guitar, they utterly fail to charm...

Could you point me in the direction of Mr. Keenan's design? Or I'll
search it later...

Cheers,

P

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...>
wrote:
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "petesfriedclams@s..."
> <petesfriedclams@s...> wrote:
>
> > [It's a Strat fretted in the 1.3.7.9.11.15 Eikosany]
>
> Oh, it's a Strat! I guess I heard right then, Pete -- electric. By
> the way, are you familiar with Dave Keenan's Eikosany guitar
design?
> It should allow you to much more easily play all 30 Eikosany
Tetrads
> than would be possible with the (two-note) open tuning you're
using,
> yet it still manages this with straight-across frets! The trick is
in
> the "microtempering" which shouldn't be much of a philosophical
> conundrum since, as you say, so much of the intonation is in the
> fingers anyway . . . but should you decide to get another Eikosany
> guitar, I think this is something you should consider, at least as
a
> starting point for your own original design.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "ambassadorbob"
<petesfriedclams@s...> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> Thanks!
>
> No, I have NOT seen this design and would very much like to!
> I'm hard at work on a new little Cooder/Kottke-style diddle (and my
> Strat needs maintenance, too...luckily I just (!) found a guy up
> here who seems to 'know the drill' re: microcult geetar!)
>
> Just when I thought I'd made peace with 12-equal, this guitar comes
> back to haunt me! Now if I play the same riffs on a 'normal'
> guitar, they utterly fail to charm...
>
> Could you point me in the direction of Mr. Keenan's design? Or
I'll
> search it later...
>
> Cheers,
>
> P

I think Dave posted it to one of the lists at some point. Dave's
paper with the design in it will be part of Xenharmonikon 18, which
is awaiting publication. I'm not sure if Dave has a web resource for
it yet, but I'm sure he'll be happy to share it with you. You might
be able to get his attention on the Tuning list . . .

Anyway, I was thinking earlier that if you currently have the
Eikosany implemented as a straight-across fretting, one fret per
ratio, you really only have the Eikosany on one string -- or half the
strings if you're using only two notes in your open string tuning.
That would make playing some (most?) of the 30 Eikosany Tetrads
impossible, but of course the other strings give you new notes that
are not in the Eikosany to play with. I heard some chords in your
piece that I'm pretty sure don't exist in the Eikosany, but now that
makes sense -- you're sort of playing with two Eikosanies a 3:2 apart
from one another, right?

P.S. You can probably reach Dave Keenan by e-mail.

Paul Erlich <paul@...> wrote:

<<Anyway, I was thinking earlier that if you currently have the
Eikosany implemented as a straight-across fretting, one fret per
ratio, you really only have the Eikosany on one string -- or half the
strings if you're using only two notes in your open string tuning.
That would make playing some (most?) of the 30 Eikosany Tetrads
impossible, but of course the other strings give you new notes that
are not in the Eikosany to play with. I heard some chords in your
piece that I'm pretty sure don't exist in the Eikosany, but now that
makes sense -- you're sort of playing with two Eikosanies a 3:2 apart
from one another, right?>>

Yes, that's right. I just took what Kraig had done on a Novatone (?)-fitted acoustic 12-string (one of those would be REALLY cool, done up right!) that's no longer extant, I believe. The choice of D# and A# apparently yielded the most notes 'in common' across the strings. I think there's only one errant '9/8' that crept into my piece, with minimal emphasis, I hope. I was/am pretty scrupulous to try to stay consistent that way. Not that I wouldn't use the 2 Eikosanies as a resource, but it's all I can do to keep track of the one, at this point.

I went through all of the tetrads and hexanies I have charts for at one time, and I plan to go through them again, soon. But I thought they were all pretty much (melodically) accessible with, of course, some techniqueal :-) hardship at times. To play as chords? Ooowww! :-) I used DDL's, at first.

I'm really looking forward to a glimpse of Keenan's solution, as soon as possible. Tremendous thanks for pointing that out!

This fellow up here in Sonoma County tells me he's fretted (and installed?) a bunch of Mark Rankin's kits, likes JI a lot, AND (I know) he builds a sweet (!) acoustic jazz box, if you've got a lot of cash burning a hole in your pocket, hee! I wish I did...I'm gonna see him soon, I expect, and I'll aks him [sic] about a possible combo of xenharmoniai and Lenny Breau, ...or Wes, eh? Sounds like quite a platter, to me! No? :-) Anyway...I digress...

I'll get a link, and keep you informed.

Cheers,

Pete

Yahoo! Groups Links

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--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Pete McRae

>> I went through all of the tetrads and hexanies I have charts for
>at one time, and I plan to go through them again, soon. But I
>thought they were all pretty much (melodically) accessible with, of
>course, some techniqueal :-) hardship at times. To play as chords?
>Ooowww! :-)

Well, I think that's where the real beauty/specialness of an Eikosany
guitar will reveal itself. In fact, I think an acoustic steel-string
guitar is among the best timbre for utonal chords, due to the
sympathetic resonance of the common overtones. Otonal chords work
great with any harmonic or near-harmonic spectrum, including electric
guitar of course. Adding distortion/overdrive will make the otonal
chords sound awesome and the utonal chords sound like mush.

> I used DDL's, at first.

Digital Delay Lines? Or . . . (?)

> I'm really looking forward to a glimpse of Keenan's solution, as
>soon as possible. Tremendous thanks for pointing that out!

Dave's solution, if I remember right, allows for all the Eikosany
pitches and chords to be played in first position on the guitar, and
the highest string continues the Eikosany scale. In higher positions
on the other strings, though, you will find some non-
Eikosany 'substitutes' for Eikosany pitches, due to the straight-
across frets. I think some of the open strings are tuned a neutral
third apart from one another in Dave's scheme . . .

Best,
Paul

Paul Erlich <paul@...> wrote:

>> To play as chords?
>> Ooowww! :-)

> Well, I think that's where the real beauty/specialness of an Eikosany
> guitar will reveal itself.

Yes, that's where I spend almost all of my time searching, and there haven't been _too_ many disappointments. But I studied enough with some guitarists who could _really_ stretch (or scrunch) for those dazzling chords, so the 'ouch! factor' in fingering is something I really don't mind...it just takes practice to execute. May I go to my grave, trying...Hee!

> I used DDL's, at first.

> Digital Delay Lines? Or . . . (?)

Yeah. Sorry, I couldn't resist the anachronism. :-) I tired of the looping thing really quickly, as an artistic medium, but it can still be a gas to practice with. I'm really trying to play as much as possible, in anticipation of a spiffy (ie xenharmonious) acoustic instrument. Hopefully some new stuff will manifest itself. I've got the other country blues-y thing(s) almost done, just need time to record them as well as I can. Then it's back to the real Eikosany, and maybe a new fretting??? Hope's up!

P

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