Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup makemicromusic What audio formats to use online for microtonal music?

Hello --

I would like to have asked this question via a formal poll, but (a)
that feature's been turned off for MMM (and Yahoo groups doesn't allow
it to be turned on again after a group has been established) and (b)
experience shows that only a handful of members will ever respond
anyways. So, I'll settle for any informal response, on- or offlist, to
the following:

I would like to find an optimal format for putting samples of music
with alternative tunings online. Please rank the following
possibilities (I realize that I am not exhausting the possibilities --
aiff & au/snd & mpeg & ra & true speech etc., but these are my
immediate possibilities):

(a) midi with individual pitch-bend messages
(b) midi for external re-tuning (e.g. via a relay program like "Midi
Relay" or "InTun" or to a synth with tuning tables)
(c) mp3s
(d) ogg-vorbis
(e) wma
(f) wav

Thanks in advance,

Daniel Wolf

🔗Shaun Tuck <tuckpower@...>

My amateur opinion:

1. Don't use MIDI for presentation as the way its
played back will vary with each sound card. Sometimes
the pitch bend messages don't work properly and the
harmonics of the instrument voices won't reproduce the
audible effect as you intended. For example, one
clarinet voice in Bohlen-Pierce tuning would work
great while another might sound awful for someone
else's set of default MIDI soundfonts. If there is a
MIDI file you want to present, render it to WAV with a
program like Timidity++
http://timidity.sourceforge.net/ and encode it to OGG.

2. Don't use MP3 (MPEG-2 layer 3) because it is
uselessly bulky compared to the MPEG-4 generation
audio formats.

3. Among the MPEG-4/quasi-MPEG-4 generation audio
formats, don't use proprietary ones because at least
in principle (in terms of licensing), you won't have
nearly as much freedom of control (either in the
short-term or the long-term) without paying money.
This means not using WMA, RM, AAC(?), etc.

4. So, I think OGG http://www.vorbis.com/ is the best
lossy format to use. If you have the webspace, in my
picky opinion, its ideal to make a lossless format
available like FLAC http://flac.sourceforge.net/.
Since FLAC is streamable, I think that there is no
question that as average user bandwidth increases,
lossless formats like FLAC will become the norm.

I hope this helps out!

Shaun

Just learning, first attempt:

http://mozartonmars.musicpage.de/

--- danieljameswolf <djwolf1@...> wrote:

>
> Hello --
>
> I would like to have asked this question via a
> formal poll, but (a)
> that feature's been turned off for MMM (and Yahoo
> groups doesn't allow
> it to be turned on again after a group has been
> established) and (b)
> experience shows that only a handful of members will
> ever respond
> anyways. So, I'll settle for any informal response,
> on- or offlist, to
> the following:
>
> I would like to find an optimal format for putting
> samples of music
> with alternative tunings online. Please rank the
> following
> possibilities (I realize that I am not exhausting
> the possibilities --
> aiff & au/snd & mpeg & ra & true speech etc., but
> these are my
> immediate possibilities):
>
> (a) midi with individual pitch-bend messages
> (b) midi for external re-tuning (e.g. via a relay
> program like "Midi
> Relay" or "InTun" or to a synth with tuning tables)
> (c) mp3s
> (d) ogg-vorbis
> (e) wma
> (f) wav
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Daniel Wolf
>
>
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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🔗jrinkel@...

Daniel Wolf:

MIDI would probably be the most compact format -- but I don't like having to
play MIDI files with microtonal pitch bends, etc. I'm not 100% sure that there
is an approved standard by which all MIDI devices will bend notes the exact
same way. Also, the quality of the sounds are very dependent on the MIDI
device -- that I do know. It may sound great on your super duper sound card at
home, but when it gets played on a $10 sound card that barely knows how to
produce simplistic FM audio fromm MIDI, it will sound very different.

Personally, I would suggest a compressed audio file like mp3 or ogg vorbis.
You can render your files however you like (and you'll know their done right)
and when you post them as one of these files, you're guaranteed that they will
be heard the way it was meant to be heard. wma is also okay, but to the best
of my knowledge, WMA players only exist for windows platforms. While this may
not be a big deal to you, there are people who use Macs or use the Linux OS,
and they are tough out of luck to hear your really cool composition.

Avoid WAV files for online downloading. Yes, the provide the ultimate bit-for-
bit replica of your music, but they are about 10 times bigger and can take
forever to download. Most people cannot tell the difference between a good MP3
(or OGG file) and the original WAV.

My .2 cents worth.

Jay Rinkel (MMM lurker)

Quoting danieljameswolf <djwolf1@...>:

>
>
> Hello --
>
> I would like to have asked this question via a formal poll, but (a)
> that feature's been turned off for MMM (and Yahoo groups doesn't allow
> it to be turned on again after a group has been established) and (b)
> experience shows that only a handful of members will ever respond
> anyways. So, I'll settle for any informal response, on- or offlist, to
> the following:
>
> I would like to find an optimal format for putting samples of music
> with alternative tunings online. Please rank the following
> possibilities (I realize that I am not exhausting the possibilities --
> aiff & au/snd & mpeg & ra & true speech etc., but these are my
> immediate possibilities):
>
> (a) midi with individual pitch-bend messages
> (b) midi for external re-tuning (e.g. via a relay program like "Midi
> Relay" or "InTun" or to a synth with tuning tables)
> (c) mp3s
> (d) ogg-vorbis
> (e) wma
> (f) wav
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Daniel Wolf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

🔗Dante Rosati <dante@...>

🔗Robert Walker <robertwalker@...>

Hi Daniel

Can I suggest also having midi files too, for those that have at least moderately reasonable sound cards and maybe other ways of
playing them too.

The midi format is good for the same reasons that it is bad - it lets the listener listen to the file in different ways.

For work in progress anyway, and if it exists in midi format. When finished maybe one wants to make a definitive version of it.

For instance if it is a piano piece, the listener might want to play it on the Giga piano to hear what it sounds like, or on their
favourite piano patch whatever it is. Or they might want to try it out on some completely other voice. If it is a clarinet piece,
maybe they have a choice of clarinet voices to try. If it is a Bohlen Pierce piece maybe they have a voice they know works well - or
if 13-et maybe they have voices that works well with 13-et etc.

I mean - as an option - here is the rendered one - and here is the midi clip for those who want to listen to it that way.

When rendered to .ogg or .mp3 you can only listen to it in the one way.

The other thing is that midi format is far more accessible for those still on dial up. A 10 MB mp3 will take me about half an hour
to download here in Oxford before I can listen to it - or if you try to play it in real time you get bursts of sound every so often
for half an hour until it is downloaded. A midi clip can be played instantly in real time.

There are some with broadband here in UK, more as time goes on, but it isn't really that widespread yet. Many others have slower
connections than I have - there are still many here in the UK with connections of 30 K or less in the islands and country regions.
When I'm at my mothers place, if many of the islanders are downloading at once, e.g. at 6 p.m., the connection rate goes down to a
crawl (not sure why but I think it is because they are nearly all connected using the same ISP and there are only a few lines
dedicated to the entire island) and you only get a fast connection late at night or early in the morning where fast means over 30K.

Robert

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@...>

🔗Rick McGowan <rick@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Shaun Tuck <tuckpower@...>

Of course, accessibility is not the primary goal of
every composer.

--- Rick McGowan <rick@...> wrote:

> Well, to me it's fairly obvious that if you're going
> to put music on the
> web, you want to use the format that the largest
> number of potential users
> can listen to. The bottom line on the web is
> usability. MP3 is it for now.
>
> And didn't we already have this converation? ;-)
>
> Rick
>

__________________________________________________
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🔗Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "danieljameswolf"

/makemicromusic/topicId_7963.html#7963

<djwolf1@a...> wrote:
>
> Hello --
>
> I would like to have asked this question via a formal poll, but (a)
> that feature's been turned off for MMM (and Yahoo groups doesn't
allow
> it to be turned on again after a group has been established) and (b)
> experience shows that only a handful of members will ever respond
> anyways. So, I'll settle for any informal response, on- or offlist,
to
> the following:
>
> I would like to find an optimal format for putting samples of music
> with alternative tunings online. Please rank the following
> possibilities (I realize that I am not exhausting the
possibilities --
> aiff & au/snd & mpeg & ra & true speech etc., but these are my
> immediate possibilities):
>
> (a) midi with individual pitch-bend messages
> (b) midi for external re-tuning (e.g. via a relay program like "Midi
> Relay" or "InTun" or to a synth with tuning tables)
> (c) mp3s
> (d) ogg-vorbis
> (e) wma
> (f) wav
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Daniel Wolf

***I still vote for .mp3 in a big way.

.Ogg if you must --- I'm .ogg-enabled in any case...

J. Pehrson

What audio formats to use online for microtonal music?

🔗danieljameswolf <djwolf1@...>

🔗Shaun Tuck <tuckpower@...>

🔗jrinkel@...

🔗Dante Rosati <dante@...>

🔗Robert Walker <robertwalker@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@...>

🔗Rick McGowan <rick@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Shaun Tuck <tuckpower@...>

🔗Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@...>