Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup makemicromusic [Admin] The Future of MMM

[...as I compose this message, I am listening to a new recording of live music by Kraig Grady and his ensemble. It gives me hope...]

Dear List,

All things must pass.

That pretty well sums it up. It is sobering to me that, as of tomorrow, MMM will have been in existence for 3 years. Sobering in that it doesn't seem that long, that I didn't (at times) expect it to last, and that I consider it a good run.

So, along with that, I am announcing that MMM will be going into hibernation on Sunday, August 1, 2004. On that day, posting to MMM will cease, and the forum will be here on the Yahoo Groups site for an undetermined period of time, open for public viewing and using as a resource, but frozen at that point in terms of any new input.

Why?

MMM has ceased to be the place we wanted it to be, and the amount of energy (of all sorts) that has been directed to the situation hasn't really helped. I've thought long and hard about this, and consulted with other people who helped launch this site/forum, and my/our opinion is that we made a place where some good things occurred, and we're going to be content with that.

The online microtonal world is pretty strange. The overriding point, the prime purpose in starting MMM was to have a real alternative to venues that didn't seem to be actively interested in the process and results of making music. It just seemed like a foreign endeavor, an implementation detail. A number of us were frustrated by that, and wanted a little patch of the ether of 0's and 1's that was friendly and conducive to this kind of activity. I had hopes that, at the very least, the people that would join would share that focus, and at the very most it would grow into an active, supportive, and thriving musical community.

Ah, hell, one of my students recently called me "the eternal optimist"!

I'm not angry about any of this, or bitter, maybe just a little sad. But I have reached a point where what MMM has gradually evolved into is not what it was intended to be, and it seems like a good time for all - me especially - to move on. Nothing here to see, folks. Just an accident.

This can, and will, play out pretty placidly:

1. During the next two weeks, I urge all of you to save any of the files that may be stored on the MMM groups site. I also urge any of you to make sure you've got contacts for other members that you would like to keep in touch with (I'm sure everyone knows how to get in touch with me by now...).

2. As I said, on 8/1 I'll flip a switch and posting will be off. The archives will still be online, available to all. I have no reason to change that at any point in the future.

3. It may very well be that one or more of you would like to start your own microtonal discussion group (which you could have done at anytime, anyway!), and if you have the desire and energy, I say go for it. I simply ask this: do not call it Making Microtonal Music or MMM. I won't make any attempt to see that enforced, mind you, I would simply ask that you respect this one request of mine.

4. For the time being I will be keeping microtonal.org, there are future plans for that, but only time will tell.

*****

I guess that's it. There may be some discussion over the coming days, so I'll be happy (within the bounds of my real-world constraints on time) to answer any questions. There have been some real fun times here, I believe that valuable info has been shared, and I've grown to know and respect a great number of our members. I'm a little chagrined that this comes at a time of our highest membership, but I'm also aware that old email addresses to pile up, so I think we've been in a holding pattern for a while.

Lastly, and most importantly, I hope that each and every one of you will take an opportunity to step back from the typing and revisit your musical world. I know that is what I am going to be doing. I'd like nothing better than to think that shuttering another time-sucker like MMM might give rise to a number of little gems, a sprinkling of new pieces that delight the ear and open the heart.

I was watching an interview with the composer of music for the film "Frida" the other night, and he had a great phrase for describing music that got to him the most: he said it always shared the qualities of being "fresh and inevitable". We could have that in spades! Music that has elements that no one else explores, yet developed with such care, craft, charisma, or plain old fucking good luck, that it seems undeniable. That it appears inevitable.

I think it is possible. It wasn't for this moment, but I believe it can be. Let's go there.

Yours in music and life,
Jon

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@...>

>So, along with that, I am announcing that MMM will be going into
>hibernation on Sunday, August 1, 2004.

Wow, I *just* posted the weekly tuning award to the big list.
I wrote it last week with all the other awards for the next
month or so.

>This can, and will, play out pretty placidly:
>
>1. During the next two weeks, I urge all of you to save any of the
>files that may be stored on the MMM groups site. I also urge any of
>you to make ure you've got contacts for other members that you
>would like to keep in touch with (I'm sure everyone knows how to
>get in touch with me by now...).

But there are people here I haven't gotten to know yet. And new
members join every day. Look at your home page!

>I was watching an interview with the composer of music for the film
>"Frida" the other night, and he had a great phrase for describing
>music that got to him the most: he said it always shared the
>qualities of being "fresh and inevitable". We could have that in
>spades! Music that has elements that no one else explores, yet
>developed with such care, craft, charisma, or plain old fucking
>good luck, that it seems undeniable. That it appears inevitable.
>
>I think it is possible. It wasn't for this moment, but I believe
>it can be. Let's go there.

Well I respect your feelings, Jon, and I'm sure a lot of good can
and will come of this change, but don't you think there's more
going on here than just what you had in mind? This thing has grown
into a community.

-Carl

🔗Dante Rosati <dante@...>

🔗Aaron K. Johnson <akjmicro@...>

Hey all,

Since Jon has announced the impending end of MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com as
we know it, let's take a vote.

BTW, Jon, I (we) respect your wishes not to be a part of this anymore.....

Maybe this is as good a time as any (perhaps best) to make the migration from
Yahoo to Google happen. I already have a group (tentatively called
"MakeMicroMusic") over at Google, but in deference to Jon, I will change it's
name to "non12comp@..." . We can start fresh over there. Plus,
posts made there become indexed and searchable within hours.

Please, if you are receiving this email and still have faith in the vibrancy
of an online community dedicated to the mutual sharing and support of new
micro/xentonal music of *all* sorts, please go to

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/non12comp , and sign up for membership.

We already have a tuning list where a *lot* of math and theory goes down. I
would, in the spirit of Jon's quest with the formation of MMM, like to keep
the *practical* aspects in the foreground. This means extended posts about
the theory of comma pumps, vals, etc. should go to tuning. The goal here is
music making and the encouragement of it. It's hard enough to get away from
the addiction of mailing list itself to sit down and write some music. Adding
theory (which can be purely interesting by itself) to the mix only makes it
harder to produce the next 'opus'.

Civility should be strictly observed, but will not be enforced, outside of a
public/private warning that private disputes be taken elsewhere. Musical
examples (mp3's, midi files) should be the common occurence, and a sign that
the group is healthy, doing it's thing.

Anyone want to co-moderate? ;)

Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.dividebypi.com
http://www.akjmusic.com

🔗Jonathan M. Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

🔗Robert Walker <robertwalker@...>

Hi Jon,

I'm sure there will be another list presently
- maybe after a gap when everyone is more refreshed
and ready to start again.

More and more people are making microtonal music
it seems, and one way or another they will
surely find a forum to talk about it on-line.
Hope so anyway - we are so geographically
dispersed that I think it is the best way to have
some kind of a community feeling.

As we've seen in this forum, we can learn so much
from sharing our experiences and working
together on-line. Also from listening to
each other's music. Also we've seen
that if the ground rules are set out clearly
then one can talk about it calmly without
entering into acrimonious battles
or causing hurt feelings all round.
Also we've seen how easy it is to share
musical examples on-line nowadays.

But one can get tired with too much
on-line discussion - it is kind of "dry"
sometimes isn't it compared with actual music
making - maybe for the old hands
more so than ones coming to the forum
new.

Anyway I'm sure I'm speaking for everyone
here to say that I appreciate all the
work you have put into this forum
to make it a success, thanks.
I certainly feel I've learnt a lot
from participating in it.

Perhaps borrowing from the Mozilla
browser naming example, someone can start
up a Microtonal Firebird group
presently :-).

Robert

🔗Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"

/makemicromusic/topicId_7153.html#7153

>
> So, along with that, I am announcing that MMM will be going into
> hibernation on Sunday, August 1, 2004. On that day, posting to MMM
will
> cease, and the forum will be here on the Yahoo Groups site for an
> undetermined period of time, open for public viewing and using as
a
> resource, but frozen at that point in terms of any new input.
>
> Why?
>

***That's what *I'd* like to ask. Jon, it really doesn't seem fair
to shut down this list without asking the opinions of the other well-
intentioned participants.

Just because the nature of the list didn't take the *exact* shape
you wanted of it, Jon, is no valid reason for shutting it down.

As it stands, MMM has been a very valuable resource for electronic
and computer generation of microtonal music. I know that,
personally, I've found it very valuable.

There have, additionally, been many postings of *real* micro music
here, too. Maybe not as many as you want, Jon, but quite a few,
nonetheless.

If it's a matter of time, I would recommend, Jon, that you appoint
*another* moderator and recede to the background, as Mark Nowinsky
did on the "big" list.

Outside of the "drama" of seeing all this go down in flames, I can't
see the value of the shutdown.

That's *my* opinion on the topic...

J. Pehrson

🔗Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson"

/makemicromusic/topicId_7153.html#7163

<jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron K. Johnson"
>
> /makemicromusic/topicId_7153.html#7159
>
> <akjmicro@c...> wrote:
> > Hey all,
> >
> > Since Jon has announced the impending end of
> MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com as
> > we know it, let's take a vote.
> >
> > BTW, Jon, I (we) respect your wishes not to be a part of this
> anymore.....
> >
> > Maybe this is as good a time as any (perhaps best) to make the
> migration from
> > Yahoo to Google happen. I already have a group (tentatively
called
> > "MakeMicroMusic") over at Google, but in deference to Jon, I
will
> change it's
> > name to "non12comp@..." . We can start fresh over
> there.
>
> ***I'm finding that this is not working very well. I can't even
> seem to post a response over there.
>
> Are you sure this beta is working?? :)
>
> J. Pehrson

***Oh... I wouldn't mind helping moderate if I'm invited to... But,
I'm not convinced this interface is working...

J. Pehrson

🔗Jonathan M. Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

🔗Rick McGowan <rick@...>

🔗Aaron K. Johnson <akjmicro@...>

On Monday 19 July 2004 01:53 pm, Joseph Pehrson wrote:

> ***Oh... I wouldn't mind helping moderate if I'm invited to... But,
> I'm not convinced this interface is working...

Joseph,

did you join?

Perhaps it's a bit slow. In any event, I have received no emails from anyone
wishing to join yet. A bad sign about Google's speed. Carl, did you get my
wish to join your test group? Maybe we should get an idea of how fast things
are before switching....Yahoo does seem to register changes/posts faster.

Although we still have the shitty Yahoo archiving problem.

Whatever everyone decides, I'm bidding farwell to the tuning group. In fact I
already have, and I don't read it but rarely, even though I'm still a member,
because I want to keep the contacts I've made. But I've had it up to my ears
with theory, and want to deal with music. So, if this fails, I guess I'll
just keep up posting privately with those who want to exchange music
primarily. Like Rick, I prefer the MMM vibe.

>
>
>
> [MMM info]------------------------------------------------------
> More MMM music files are at http://www.microtonal.org/music.html
> ------------------------------------------------------[MMM info]
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--
Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.dividebypi.com
http://www.akjmusic.com

🔗Dante Rosati <dante@...>

I had the impression that some (or alot) of the ppl here (like Aaron says
below) had quit the tuning list, or didn't read it anymore. Mostly, this was
people who were interested in sharing their music and listening to other's
music. If this list goes, then it breaks up a network of people who are in
one place and are interested in sharing their musical (as opposed to
theoretical) efforts. If everyone here was also on the tuning list, we could
just do what was suggested and post our "check out my new piece..." posts
there, but I dont think thats the case. So the choices are:

1) everyone can go back to the tuning list and sift through posts to find
the ones about making music.
2) form a new group, on Yahoo, Google, or elesewhere, and try to get
everyone to go over there or
3) just leave this one the way it is.

Isn't #3 the simplest?

Jon, I understand if you dont want to run the list anymore, but I'm sure
someone else would be happy to take over, and it will save the network that
is already in place.

Dante

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aaron K. Johnson [mailto:akjmicro@...]
> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 7:09 PM
> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MMM] Re: The Future of MMM
>
>
> On Monday 19 July 2004 01:53 pm, Joseph Pehrson wrote:
>
> > ***Oh... I wouldn't mind helping moderate if I'm invited to... But,
> > I'm not convinced this interface is working...
>
> Joseph,
>
> did you join?
>
> Perhaps it's a bit slow. In any event, I have received no emails
> from anyone
> wishing to join yet. A bad sign about Google's speed. Carl, did
> you get my
> wish to join your test group? Maybe we should get an idea of how
> fast things
> are before switching....Yahoo does seem to register changes/posts faster.
>
> Although we still have the shitty Yahoo archiving problem.
>
> Whatever everyone decides, I'm bidding farwell to the tuning
> group. In fact I
> already have, and I don't read it but rarely, even though I'm
> still a member,
> because I want to keep the contacts I've made. But I've had it up
> to my ears
> with theory, and want to deal with music. So, if this fails, I guess I'll
> just keep up posting privately with those who want to exchange music
> primarily. Like Rick, I prefer the MMM vibe.

🔗Daniel Wolf <djwolf1@...>

Hello Jon, all:

This has not been a good day for getting at making music -- it's too hot here, you've decided to close shop on your list, I've got to do a rush film score arrangement (for which I'll probably have to wait three years to get paid) and -- to top everything off, the very sad news has arrived of the death of Carlos Kleiber, a week ago in Slovenia. (For me, Kleiber was the best conductor of his generation, and often the only one for whom quality music making was more important than all else).

As you know well, I quit the main list a long time ago out of extreme frustration. Far too often, I'd practically sweat blood over a message to make sure that it was as accurate and temperate as I could make it, only to find out that my efforts were never enough. I had come to reconcile myself to the fact that -- for whatever reason -- no matter what I wrote, a Reinhard or a MacLaren would scream in disagreement. But I could not reconcile myself to the coterminous fact that their disagreements, especially those based on the most simple misunderstandings, would be imbedded in the eternity of the internet.

I did, however, renew some old friendships (Chalmers, Grady) and gain some wonderful new colleagues (among them John Clough, Jonathan Walker, yourself) on the tuning list, and the off-list discussions were among the best -- and often funniest -- correspondance I've encountered. You, Jon, in particular, have always given good back channel -- a few words of encouragement, or an extended pun, or just good taste in Malts... Joining your list has been a refreshing re-taste of those good times. I do regret your decision to quit, but respect it, knowing that it's often best to quit while the quitting's good and not to keep doing something once it's stopped being fun. MMM is your creation, and you have the luxury to make the end of the list into an aesthetic decision, so do it when it seems done to you.

I don't like the idea of moving to Google. The highest virtue, methinks, of Yahoo! is its very incompetence, and all I've heard about the combined intrusiveness and competence of Google has given me pause before a leap into Ms. G's arms. I'd really prefer to find a quasi-academic home (like the original Mills server) where we could continue on with a minimum of bureaucratic attention or commercial interruption, but have a feeling that the tuning community, like Candide, has left our garden home behind forever, and now, somewhere between Westphalia and El Dorado, will just have to make do. So maybe it's time to return to the ranch, the big tuning list. (As the poet put it "Quit your rambling, quit your gambling, quit staying out late at night, go home to your wife and family, and sit by the fireside bright...")

I've rambled, but it's been a lousy day, so it's my right to ramble,

DJW

🔗Gene Ward Smith <gwsmith@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@...>

>I don't like the idea of moving to Google. The highest virtue,
methinks,
>of Yahoo! is its very incompetence, and all I've heard about the
>combined intrusiveness and competence of Google has given me pause
>before a leap into Ms. G's arms.

The rumors of its intrusiveness have been greatly exaggerated, and
also made up. And I'm about as freaky a privacy advocate as they
come.

Google's competence speaks for itself.

>I'd really prefer to find a quasi-academic home (like the
>original Mills server)

I recall I was a lone dissenting voice in the move to onelist.
But on the upside, it brought many people aboard that probably
wouldn't have found us on an academic list.

>I've rambled, but it's been a lousy day, so it's my right to ramble,

Hope tomorrow fairs better!

-Carl

🔗Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron K. Johnson"

/makemicromusic/topicId_7153.html#7172

<akjmicro@c...> wrote:
> On Monday 19 July 2004 01:53 pm, Joseph Pehrson wrote:
>
> > ***Oh... I wouldn't mind helping moderate if I'm invited to...
But,
> > I'm not convinced this interface is working...
>
> Joseph,
>
> did you join?
>

***Yes, I did, but apparently haven't been approved. I applied to
another "tuning" test group over there too, and was never approved.

I don't think this augurs well presently...

> Perhaps it's a bit slow. In any event, I have received no emails
from anyone
> wishing to join yet. A bad sign about Google's speed. Carl, did you
get my
> wish to join your test group? Maybe we should get an idea of how
fast things
> are before switching....Yahoo does seem to register changes/posts
faster.
>
> Although we still have the shitty Yahoo archiving problem.
>

***It's a shame it isn't *threaded...*, but this same thing has
happened every time over the last 5 years. People want to move, but
Yahoo is the only interface that actually *works* and is
configurable...

> Whatever everyone decides, I'm bidding farwell to the tuning group.
In fact I
> already have, and I don't read it but rarely, even though I'm still
a member,
> because I want to keep the contacts I've made. But I've had it up
to my ears
> with theory, and want to deal with music. So, if this fails, I
guess I'll
> just keep up posting privately with those who want to exchange
music
> primarily. Like Rick, I prefer the MMM vibe.
>

***It's always possible just to read and respond to posts that you
are personally interested in... :)

I admit, it would be easier to do this in a *threaded* environment.
If anybody has ever seen the Sibelius tuning list format (the company
one), that one is just terrific, with clear threading and informative
discussions...

🔗Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Dante Rosati" <dante@i...>

/makemicromusic/topicId_7153.html#7173

wrote:
> I had the impression that some (or alot) of the ppl here (like
Aaron says
> below) had quit the tuning list, or didn't read it anymore. Mostly,
this was
> people who were interested in sharing their music and listening to
other's
> music. If this list goes, then it breaks up a network of people who
are in
> one place and are interested in sharing their musical (as opposed to
> theoretical) efforts. If everyone here was also on the tuning list,
we could
> just do what was suggested and post our "check out my new piece..."
posts
> there, but I dont think thats the case. So the choices are:
>
> 1) everyone can go back to the tuning list and sift through posts
to find
> the ones about making music.
> 2) form a new group, on Yahoo, Google, or elesewhere, and try to get
> everyone to go over there or
> 3) just leave this one the way it is.
>
> Isn't #3 the simplest?
>
> Jon, I understand if you dont want to run the list anymore, but I'm
sure
> someone else would be happy to take over, and it will save the
network that
> is already in place.
>
> Dante
>

***Jon has obviously made an emotional investment in this place, and
his current decision is, I believe, also an emotional one.

Jon... after you get back from the shrink, could you please re-
evaluate your decision and make a *rational* choice... :)

(Just joking around, Jon... don't mean to be offensive... :)

🔗paolovalladolid <phv40@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@...>

🔗paolovalladolid <phv40@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> >I'm sorry to hear you are going to shut down MMM, but I respect your
> >decision.
> >
> >Thanks for running this group. My thanks also to those who provided
> >the information I gleaned from this group. I have nothing against
> >Google groups or the main tuning list,
>
> Paolo,
>
> Just wanted to say that I recognize your name as somebody I've
> always liked hearing from on this list. I think we share a
> common interest in additive synthesis or something. Also I
> think you turned me on to Numerology (unforch I don't have a
> Mac).

Thanks, Carl. I've found your posts informative as well.

> >but I'm not a composer or
> >tuning researcher. Good luck to you in your endeavors.
>
> Didn't you just post a piece on a Lou Harrison scale a week ago?

Yes, I posted a recording on an improvisation that was made using
Numerology, with FM7 and Apple DLS as the sound sources. I got the
impression the Google group is for composers in the "classical"
tradition, which is not what I do (though as an orchestral violist, I
play material written by such composers). One thing I've enjoyed
about MMM is that its for anybody who makes microtonal music, whether
you're an improvisor, formal practice composer, etc. At least that
was my impression.

Paolo

🔗Jonathan M. Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

Paolo,

First, I hope you'll notice that this group is going to continue, under "new management". So I hope that, when and if your other time constraints ease up, you'll find the opportunity to post some music! As to that...

{you wrote...}
>I got the impression the Google group is for composers in the "classical"
>tradition...

I'm not so sure about that, but the nature of that list will solidify over time (if it stays active).

>One thing I've enjoyed about MMM is that its for anybody who makes >microtonal music, whether you're an improvisor, formal practice composer, >etc. At least that
>was my impression.

And your impression was gigantically correct. And I believe that won't change, because the people around here like a lot of different kind of musics. And if anyone tries to focus it one way or another, shout out loud! All that matters is music, not what *kind* of music!

Cheers,
Jon

🔗Aaron K. Johnson <akjmicro@...>

On Thursday 22 July 2004 05:29 pm, Jonathan M. Szanto wrote:

> {Paolo wrote...}
>
> > I got the impression the Google group is for composers in the "classical"
> > tradition...
>
> I'm not so sure about that, but the nature of that list will solidify over
> time (if it stays active).

A big 'if'. I have a feeling that most people have opted to stay at Yahoo, now
that Jon has changed his mind about axiing MMM. I personally am a bit
disappointed, because I find the Yahoo search feature a huge negative, and I
was excited to have a fresh start with a clean slate in a new environment.

I encourage those who are members of 'non12comp' to cross post all messages
here *and* there, to both enliven 'non12comp', and to have your messages
archived in a really good way over there.

Inelegant, yes, but I can't *force* the google naysayers to come over there.
Nor would I want to.

And, no, 'non12comp' is not for 'classical only'. It is intended to cover
anything that is about amking music in non-standard tunings of any sort.

Anyway, I'm extremely disillusioned and burnt out on mailing lists right now.
I need a break. Maybe permanent.

Best,
Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.dividebypi.com
http://www.akjmusic.com

🔗Jonathan M. Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

Aaron,

{you wrote...}
>A big 'if'.

I certainly didn't mean that as a negative, only if you wanted to keep it alive and ongoing, no matter what else.

>I personally am a bit disappointed, because I find the Yahoo search >feature a huge negative, and I was excited to have a fresh start with a >clean slate in a new environment.

I mostly agree with you, Aaron. If I could somehow magically fix the Yahoo archive structure, I would. I didn't care for the web interface on Google any more, just different, but I like my mailing list as just that: a _mailing_ list. Eudora does everything I need, but some people are inextricably tied to the web usage, and it appears nothing might ever change that.

>And, no, 'non12comp' is not for 'classical only'. It is intended to cover >anything that is about amking music in non-standard tunings of any sort.

I know you made that clear in the descriptions, maybe the impression was there simply because of the nature of one piece! I bet if you had put up a killer drum-and-bass dance track the classicists would have figured the opposite!

>Anyway, I'm extremely disillusioned and burnt out on mailing lists right >now. I need a break. Maybe permanent.

It's too bad have the geography of the US separates us; we could just turn off the computer and go have a cold one at our favorite watering hole. I guess a virtual micro-brew will have to do...

Cheers,
Jon

🔗Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@...>

🔗hstraub64 <hstraub64@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron K. Johnson"
<akjmicro@c...> wrote:
>
> A big 'if'. I have a feeling that most people have opted to stay
> at Yahoo, now that Jon has changed his mind about axiing MMM. I
> personally am a bit disappointed, because I find the Yahoo search
> feature a huge negative, and I was excited to have a fresh start
> with a clean slate in a new environment.
>

The Yahoo search feature is indeed quite sh*tty, so I see the
arguments of changing - not sure whether that is enough reason to
move, though.
(BTW, just adding my 2% to the past discussion, a lot of the other
arguments I did not understand - I hope I was not part of the
reason, for posting tuning-math questions here...)

> I encourage those who are members of 'non12comp' to cross post all
> messages here *and* there, to both enliven 'non12comp', and to
> have your messages archived in a really good way over there.
>

This is good for mail but presents a problem for people who access
this group via the web interface, as I do at the moment.

I would say that if there is a decision to change, then it would
definitely be better that all do it - having to check another group
separately will be tedious - keeping me from making music again (I
remember somebody already complaining for spending too much time
online - I definitely support that!)
--
Hans Straub
http://home.datacomm.ch/straub

🔗Peter Frazer <paf@...>

Jon,

I would like to add my thanks to those you have already received
for nurturing this list over the past three years.

I think you have hinted that at times you feel despondent about
the large number of group members who never or rarely post to
the group and I just wanted to suggest that there may be many
good reasons for this.

For my own part, time constraints are such that mostly I only get
to read the list at week ends. If I miss one or two week ends then
I may be reading posts or listening to music which was posted
three weeks ago. There often seems little point in commenting
on a piece that was posted three weeks ago, no matter how much
I enjoyed it.

I am also reluctant to engage in dialogues which would require me
to read the list on a daily basis when I don't have the time to
respond in a timely manner. I am sure there must be many
people who enjoy and benefit from reading the list but simply
can not commit the daily time required to engage in a meaning
full dialogue.

Then there is the question of why people read the list. I am an
engineer more than a musician and have an interest in writing
microtonal music software, some published, some not published.
So I read the list to listen to the latest microtonal music and to
learn about what is important to composers. Yes, I studied the
basics of composition on my music course at school many
years ago but I have not composed much since. What I have
done is experimented with the use of genetic algorithms for
the composition of music but without any results I would want
to share. So I am not posting compositions because I have none
to post.

So please be patient with those of us who have derived great benefit
and enjoyment from the list in silence. Can I post my cover version
of Cage's 4'33" ? ;)

Thank you for keeping the list going Jon, and I wish continuing
success to Prent and Rick in the future.

Peter
www.midicode.com

🔗Peter Frazer <paf@...>

Aaron,

Thank you for setting up the group on Google.

I agree that the Google interface is cleaner and I will
take your word for it that there are advantages in
searching and archiving.

But there also seem to be some problems. For one thing
the tree view does not work and there is no obvious way
of reading the posts sequentially. There is supposed to
be a facility for receiving daily digest emails but I signed
up for it 2 days ago and have received none.

Do you have the time to take up these issues with Google
and see if they are planning to fix them? Or are even
aware of them?

Also, have you tried using Google to search the Yahoo
archives by using the domain feature on the advanced
search page?

Your efforts in stepping in to rescue the group are
greatly appreciated. So long as the group keeps going
in one place or another the primary objective is met so
please do not feel disillusioned and burnt out when your
efforts have been well received. I, for one, would greatly
miss your music if you were to take a break from the list.

Peter
www.midicode.com

🔗Jonathan M. Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

Peter,

Thanks for the good words, I *don't* think having the list was/is in vain, in spite of what some of my thoughts might have implied.

{you wrote...}
>I think you have hinted that at times you feel despondent about the large >number of group members who never or rarely post to the group and I just >wanted to suggest that there may be many good reasons for this.

Yes, those are all good points. It is never a demand that people become more involved in a list, and your points that pertain to you specifically are very apt. I know a number of people who have gained a lot of their knowledge, etc, through the use of your Midicode application.

I'm glad that others will see this going on, and hope that it meets whatever expectations the varied list members have. And I wish you future success on both your technical work, and the possibility you'll find a genetic sequence that sounds good enough to post! :)

Thanks again,
Jon

🔗Aaron K. Johnson <akjmicro@...>

🔗paolovalladolid <phv40@...>

🔗Aaron K. Johnson <akjmicro@...>

On Wednesday 28 July 2004 03:32 pm, paolovalladolid wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron K. Johnson"
>
> <akjmicro@c...> wrote:
> > And, no, 'non12comp' is not for 'classical only'. It is intended to
>
> cover
>
> > anything that is about amking music in non-standard tunings of any sort.
>
> In that case, I apologize. I have nothing against classical music -
> as a violist who plays in 2 orchestras, I have an ever-growing
> appreciation of classical composition. It's just that I have seen
> criticisms posted before about posted music by other composers, using
> academic standards and wasn't sure if non12comp would be even more in
> that type of direction.

Not at all, but I'm glad you gave me the oppurtunity to clarify my
intentions!!!

> I am glad this group will continue and will also begin monitoring
> non12comp. I also apologize if you were offended by my reluctance to
> join that group.

Understandable....but do keep you eye out. Activity in *any* mailing list
comes and goes in waves. Hopefully no one will assume non12comp is dead, and
we all can help by, well, writing music, talking about it, etc. In
short---post!!!

Best,

Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.dividebypi.com
http://www.akjmusic.com