New semi-music from you-know-who

Hey list,

Finally finding time, mostly by stopping downloading and trying each and every promising VST, etc. Trying to get a handle on my system and teaching myself how to make all the pieces work together, so I thought I might as well make some little mini-project-piecelets. I've thought a lot about Prent Rodgers "10 minutes a day" routine, and while it will probably be more minutes but not on every day, I still like the drift.

The little piece I did tonight is a combination of found sound and two tracks with an interesting instrument from Dash Signature called (clunky name): EMM-Knagalis. They bill this as an "Ethnic Melodic Virtual Instrument"; from their site -http://www.DashSignature.com - is the following:

"EMM Knagalis is a specialized and multi featured VSTi sample player, modeled around the structural elements of Sitar, the famous Indian lute . But its sound set also includes many other ethnic stringed instruments, as well as percussive and melodic instruments from the world stage. Instruments like Turkish Lute, Mbira (thumb piano), Santur, Shamishen.

There is even a bagpipe, a wind instrument, an instrument for which EMM Knagalis is ideal, with its legato playing style and drone accompaniment. EMM Knagalis brings these instruments to life.

The EMM Knagalis structure includes three sample layers:

Lead sound (monophonic)
Sympathetic emulation sound (polyphonic)
Drone sound (monophonic)"

It is actually fun to play, and they support importing of scales, but.....

Aargh! The instrument is limited to twelve steps per octave! And to make the co-dependency complete, the have a utility to translate Scala files into their own format, apparently allowing you to pick which twelve notes you want. Yikes. But their instruments are pretty unique, and I'm going to follow up with them and see if there is any leeway in future design. It also doesn't look like it supports sample importing, but sometimes (like tonight) it is good to work with challenges.

For now, I sat on a sandy river bank, strumming my virtual oud:

Sandspice - http://www.microtonal.org/mp3/sandspice.mp3 [2.4mb]

I confess I mixed with headphones, which is pretty much a no-no, but I did so because some of the environmental sounds are binaural recordings; that said, it might be fun to listen with cans...

Cheers,
Jon

Excellent, Jon! That is a cool instrument set- very natural sounding. I
agree with Kraig- good enough to go on alot longer! Looking forward to more.

Dante

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan M. Szanto [mailto:JSZANTO@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 1:20 AM
> To: MMM
> Subject: [MMM] New semi-music from you-know-who
>
>
> Hey list,
>
> Finally finding time, mostly by stopping downloading and trying each and
> every promising VST, etc. Trying to get a handle on my system and
> teaching
> myself how to make all the pieces work together, so I thought I might as
> well make some little mini-project-piecelets. I've thought a lot about
> Prent Rodgers "10 minutes a day" routine, and while it will probably be
> more minutes but not on every day, I still like the drift.
>
> The little piece I did tonight is a combination of found sound and two
> tracks with an interesting instrument from Dash Signature called (clunky
> name): EMM-Knagalis. They bill this as an "Ethnic Melodic Virtual
> Instrument"; from their site -http://www.DashSignature.com - is
> the following:
>
> "EMM Knagalis is a specialized and multi featured VSTi sample player,
> modeled around the structural elements of Sitar, the famous Indian lute .
> But its sound set also includes many other ethnic stringed
> instruments, as
> well as percussive and melodic instruments from the world stage.
> Instruments like Turkish Lute, Mbira (thumb piano), Santur, Shamishen.
>
> There is even a bagpipe, a wind instrument, an instrument for which EMM
> Knagalis is ideal, with its legato playing style and drone accompaniment.
> EMM Knagalis brings these instruments to life.
>
> The EMM Knagalis structure includes three sample layers:
>
> Lead sound (monophonic)
> Sympathetic emulation sound (polyphonic)
> Drone sound (monophonic)"
>
> It is actually fun to play, and they support importing of scales, but.....
>
> Aargh! The instrument is limited to twelve steps per octave! And to make
> the co-dependency complete, the have a utility to translate Scala files
> into their own format, apparently allowing you to pick which twelve notes
> you want. Yikes. But their instruments are pretty unique, and I'm
> going to
> follow up with them and see if there is any leeway in future design. It
> also doesn't look like it supports sample importing, but sometimes (like
> tonight) it is good to work with challenges.
>
> For now, I sat on a sandy river bank, strumming my virtual oud:
>
> Sandspice - http://www.microtonal.org/mp3/sandspice.mp3 [2.4mb]
>
> I confess I mixed with headphones, which is pretty much a no-no,
> but I did
> so because some of the environmental sounds are binaural recordings; that
> said, it might be fun to listen with cans...
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>
>
>
>
> [MMM info]------------------------------------------------------
> More MMM music files are at http://www.microtonal.org/music.html
> ------------------------------------------------------[MMM info]
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Hi Jon,

Just to say I thoroughly enjoy your Oud piece
by the stream. Also what an interesting idea
to have a bit of a live setting like that
for it. Could do lots like that couldn't
one, microtonal music in a virtual thunderstorm,
or dawn chorus or whatever with the music
emerging from and blending into the
setting :-).

Well I'm listening to it over headphones too
- I assume mixing it using headphones is the ideal
if listener also uses headphones :-).

Robert

Great Stuff, Jon! (and I would hardly call it semi-music). I was hungry for
this to be an alap, so that we could eventually have a tabla enter and groove
with it.... The scale was delicious, as was the sample, which didn't tire my
ears out.

More !!!! Yummy !!!! (holding plate out towards the chef)

Best,
Aaron.

On Wednesday 30 June 2004 12:19 am, Jonathan M. Szanto wrote:
> Hey list,
>
> Finally finding time, mostly by stopping downloading and trying each and
> every promising VST, etc. Trying to get a handle on my system and teaching
> myself how to make all the pieces work together, so I thought I might as
> well make some little mini-project-piecelets. I've thought a lot about
> Prent Rodgers "10 minutes a day" routine, and while it will probably be
> more minutes but not on every day, I still like the drift.
>
> The little piece I did tonight is a combination of found sound and two
> tracks with an interesting instrument from Dash Signature called (clunky
> name): EMM-Knagalis. They bill this as an "Ethnic Melodic Virtual
> Instrument"; from their site -http://www.DashSignature.com - is the
> following:
>
> "EMM Knagalis is a specialized and multi featured VSTi sample player,
> modeled around the structural elements of Sitar, the famous Indian lute .
> But its sound set also includes many other ethnic stringed instruments, as
> well as percussive and melodic instruments from the world stage.
> Instruments like Turkish Lute, Mbira (thumb piano), Santur, Shamishen.
>
> There is even a bagpipe, a wind instrument, an instrument for which EMM
> Knagalis is ideal, with its legato playing style and drone accompaniment.
> EMM Knagalis brings these instruments to life.
>
> The EMM Knagalis structure includes three sample layers:
>
> Lead sound (monophonic)
> Sympathetic emulation sound (polyphonic)
> Drone sound (monophonic)"
>
> It is actually fun to play, and they support importing of scales, but.....
>
> Aargh! The instrument is limited to twelve steps per octave! And to make
> the co-dependency complete, the have a utility to translate Scala files
> into their own format, apparently allowing you to pick which twelve notes
> you want. Yikes. But their instruments are pretty unique, and I'm going to
> follow up with them and see if there is any leeway in future design. It
> also doesn't look like it supports sample importing, but sometimes (like
> tonight) it is good to work with challenges.
>
> For now, I sat on a sandy river bank, strumming my virtual oud:
>
> Sandspice - http://www.microtonal.org/mp3/sandspice.mp3 [2.4mb]
>
> I confess I mixed with headphones, which is pretty much a no-no, but I did
> so because some of the environmental sounds are binaural recordings; that
> said, it might be fun to listen with cans...
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>
>
>
>
> [MMM info]------------------------------------------------------
> More MMM music files are at http://www.microtonal.org/music.html
> ------------------------------------------------------[MMM info]
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--
Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.dividebypi.com
http://www.akjmusic.com

This reminds me of a little concert of Hindustani music I heard here
in Helsinki last year. The tablist and the sitarist were actually
Finns and the third member was a white little box with a red LED on
it, a drone machine. :)

Very nice, Jon!

Kalle

> The little piece I did tonight is a combination of found
> sound and two tracks with an interesting instrument from
> Dash Signature called (clunky name): EMM-Knagalis.

Great work, Jon!

> It is actually fun to play, and they support importing of
> scales, but.....
>
> Aargh! The instrument is limited to twelve steps per octave!

Say, what scale did you use?

> some of the environmental sounds are binaural recordings;
> that said, it might be fun to listen with cans...

Sounds great. My only complaint is too much reverb on
the oud, and perhaps also on the whole mix.

-Carl

Yeah man!!

I've heard it every Wednesday night for years . . . the "Arabic"
tuning patch ;)

Rock on. I'm also hearing a continuation in the kind of
typical "riff" that the rolling stones took so much of their
inspiration from -- but with those authentic ornaments you seem to be
so fluent and clean with. Another instrument then doubles the melody
an octave higher, and the singer comes in . . .

. . . wait, it's Thursday now . . .

Jon,
I loved the Oud and the river sounds. Keep up the production. Once you start, there will be no stopping you!

Prent Rodgers

> From: "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@...>
> 6. Axe-meister Szanto jams it out!
> From: "Paul Erlich" <perlich@...>
>>
>>For now, I sat on a sandy river bank, strumming my virtual oud:
>>
>>Sandspice - http://www.microtonal.org/mp3/sandspice.mp3 [2.4mb]
>>

Very cool Jon. Makes me want to pull out my Oud and jam along.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Prent Rodgers
<prentrodgers@c...> wrote:
> Jon,
> I loved the Oud and the river sounds. Keep up the production. Once
you
> start, there will be no stopping you!

This piece stuck me as interesting but in *serious* need of retuning;
the sound of the oud made one expect a different tuning, and it was
actually kind of annoying to not get it, like in a movie where they
are supposed to be making exotic, xenharmonic music, but really don't.

All of which leads me to suggest that Jon take a stab at my questions
about what he's looking for in a tuning, and then try one of them out.
If nothing suggests itself, just go with 19 or 22 equal, or maybe
Blackjack.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith"
<gwsmith@s...> wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Prent Rodgers
> <prentrodgers@c...> wrote:
> > Jon,
> > I loved the Oud and the river sounds. Keep up the production.
Once
> you
> > start, there will be no stopping you!
>
> This piece stuck me as interesting but in *serious* need of
retuning;
> the sound of the oud made one expect a different tuning, and it was
> actually kind of annoying to not get it, like in a movie where they
> are supposed to be making exotic, xenharmonic music, but really
don't.

I had the exact opposite reaction. Again, I'm pretty darn sure that
the tuning was the same "Arabic" setting (whose 12 pitches include a
neutral third and neutral sixth above one tonic) that is used by
synth players in Middle-Eastern bands everywhere. Sure, oud players
depart from this a bit and use a lot of pitch *expression*, but the
basic vibe of the tuning sounded just right. Maybe not the
scales/patterns chosen, but the tuning, yes.

> All of which leads me to suggest that Jon take a stab at my
questions
> about what he's looking for in a tuning, and then try one of them
out.
> If nothing suggests itself, just go with 19 or 22 equal, or maybe
> Blackjack.

You're suggesting one of these for the oud example?? Surely you're
joking, Mr. Smith.

Gene,

{you wrote...}
>This piece stuck me as interesting but in *serious* need of retuning;

I like the tuning. It is what caught my ear and 'caused' me to play the lines I did.

>All of which leads me to suggest that Jon take a stab at my questions >about what he's looking for in a tuning, and then try one of them out. If >nothing suggests itself, just go with 19 or 22 equal, or maybe Blackjack.

Huh? I liked the tuning, and it met my aesthetic tastes for the moment (which was just a few minutes of improvising to get a feel for something). You didn't like the tuning, and that is perfectly fine.

Enough said.

Except for the fact that I have never once found things that I liked in 22, ever (well, I remember one chord I liked, but I found similar ones in other tunings), and have only had moderate success at being pleased in 19. I basically can't stand sitting and playing where each step is the same. Just me. As for Blackjack, too many notes for non-formal composition; if I was going to do a written/planned piece, I might give it consideration. Those kind of pieces are further down my list at this point.

Cheers,
Jon

Paul,

{you wrote...}
>Maybe not the scales/patterns chosen, but the tuning, yes.

I was hoping each and every person who either really *knows* oud playing/habits, not to mention any people who are fretted instrument people, understands I'm a percussionist with limited keyboard skills! I would never ever ever ever expect that this is how a *real* oud is played!!

I'm going to call around town and see if anyone has a MalletKAT to rent - I'd love to have a midi input device that actually matches my innate skills.

Anyhow, consider this as a pre-apology for any future mangling of great instrumental traditions!! :)

Cheers,
Jon

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"
<JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

> Except for the fact that I have never once found things that I
liked in 22,
> ever (well, I remember one chord I liked, but I found similar ones
in other
> tunings), and have only had moderate success at being pleased in
19. I
> basically can't stand sitting and playing where each step is the
same. Just
> me. As for Blackjack, too many notes for non-formal composition; if
I was
> going to do a written/planned piece, I might give it consideration.

I don't get it. You had so many notes of 22 tuned up that each step
was the same, but Blackjack is too many??

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"
<JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> Paul,
>
> {you wrote...}
> >Maybe not the scales/patterns chosen, but the tuning, yes.
>
> I was hoping each and every person who either really *knows* oud
> playing/habits, not to mention any people who are fretted
instrument
> people, understands I'm a percussionist with limited keyboard
skills! I
> would never ever ever ever expect that this is how a *real* oud is
played!!

I did understand that, and that's why I praised you so highly!

> I'm going to call around town and see if anyone has a MalletKAT to
rent -
> I'd love to have a midi input device that actually matches my
innate skills.
>
> Anyhow, consider this as a pre-apology for any future mangling of
great
> instrumental traditions!! :)

No apology necessary -- again, you did a stellar job!

>>Maybe not the scales/patterns chosen, but the tuning, yes.
>
>I was hoping each and every person who either really *knows* oud
>playing/habits, not to mention any people who are fretted instrument
>people, understands I'm a percussionist with limited keyboard skills!

Actually I thought some of the ornamentation was pretty impressive,
considering you used a keyboard.

>I would never ever ever ever expect that this is how a *real* oud
>is played!!

I doubt a keyboard controller by itself would ever be able to
deliver that.

>I'm going to call around town and see if anyone has a MalletKAT to
>rent - I'd love to have a midi input device that actually matches
>my innate skills.

That'd be phat.

-Carl

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> >>Maybe not the scales/patterns chosen, but the tuning, yes.
> >
> >I was hoping each and every person who either really *knows* oud
> >playing/habits, not to mention any people who are fretted
instrument
> >people, understands I'm a percussionist with limited keyboard
skills!
>
> Actually I thought some of the ornamentation was pretty impressive,
> considering you used a keyboard.

That's what I was trying to get at in the original post in this
thread:

/makemicromusic/topicId_6983.html#6991

Paul,

{you wrote...}
>I don't get it. You had so many notes of 22 tuned up that each step was >the same, but Blackjack is too many??

I'm probably not being clear.

When I've tried to work with 22, I would simply load a Scala-generated 22 scale with 22 notes. I would work with it, looking (i.e. "listening") to scales, and also trying to find harmonic resources as well. I didn't LIKE to have that many notes spread out in front of me, no sir. But I did want to access the full resources that 22 divisions of an octave would give me.

Am I not correct that Blackjack uses _more_ than 22 notes? I really think that anything getting to around 2 octaves or so *without* a repeating symmetry in some fashion (like maybe 18 or 24, or less notes per octave) really isn't something I'm going to try and just _play_, but rather _study_ and then get going. And if I'm going to have to _study_ something and compose in the old fashioned way, I'm probably going to put in a nice JI fabric of some sort. Cause I'm built that way, I suppose. :)

BTW, as to the comments on my 'oud playing', both you and Carl were _very_ clear in your comments, and I really blushed. I simply wanted to reiterate that I would *never* try to pass that stuff off as either real oud playing or even anything more than an imitation; I simply let my fingers do what my ear or responses told them.

Kind of like "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV". :)

I did, and do, take your compliments to heart, and glad that it pleased you on some level.

Cheers,
Jon

>
>[MMM info]------------------------------------------------------
>More MMM music files are at http://www.microtonal.org/music.html
>------------------------------------------------------[MMM info]
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"
<JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

> But I did want
> to access the full resources that 22 divisions of an octave would
>give me.

That's a huge hand to be dealt, and I wouldn't expect anyone to find
much in there just by "playing around", unfortunately. The number of
possibilities is truly vast. It's far too easy, for example, to
stumble on syntonic comma problems. I've found subsets of 22 on the
keyboard lead to a lot more compositional seeds than having all of 22
up there (TIBIA was the only exception).

> Am I not correct that Blackjack uses _more_ than 22 notes?

Umm . . . haven't played cards for a while? 21. What's more,
a "blackjack" beats a plain 21 in blackjack. A blackjack is obtained
by obtaining a face card (10 points) and an ace (11 points here). The
blackjack scale can be thought of as having a "natural" keyboard of
11 white and 10 black keys. It has 11 steps of 33 cents, and 10 steps
of 83 cents . . .

P,

{you wrote...}
>That's a huge hand to be dealt, and I wouldn't expect anyone to find much >in there just by "playing around", unfortunately.

Yeah, but wait a minute: if I tune up the keyboard in a particular tuning/scale, and I start trying to build chords, and I don't like the basic intervals that are there...

I dropped 22 a while back, and I refuse to be held by my recollections. But I didn't seem to be pleased by any of the building blocks I might normally start with. I'll just say this: let's table the topic for now, I'll finish a couple of other investigations first, and then I'll try and go back to see what caused me less than enamoration of 22. And I'll try to be more explicit this time.

>I've found subsets of 22 on the keyboard lead to a lot more compositional >seeds than having all of 22 up there (TIBIA was the only exception).

Well, this is where we diverge: if I'm just playing subsets and finding something good, I'd rather just tune up a scale by hand, with intervals I like, than sort through x number of arbitrary divisions - 22 et included - to see if subsets contain something interesting.

>Umm . . . haven't played cards for a while? 21.

What is wrong with me? Have I totally misremembered? I am confusing Blackjack and Miracle, right? Miracle is a larger tuning, and BJ a subset, right? And, with all these question marks, does it seem like you are talking to Joseph Pehrson? And where has he been recently?

Cheers,
Jon

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"
<JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> P,
>
> {you wrote...}
> >That's a huge hand to be dealt, and I wouldn't expect anyone to
find much
> >in there just by "playing around", unfortunately.
>
> Yeah, but wait a minute: if I tune up the keyboard in a particular
> tuning/scale, and I start trying to build chords, and I don't like
the
> basic intervals that are there...

Well, sure. The only other thing to check is a variety of timbres.
But after that, if it's not for you, it's not for you. How do you
feel about 1197-cent octaves?

>
> >I've found subsets of 22 on the keyboard lead to a lot more
compositional
> >seeds than having all of 22 up there (TIBIA was the only
exception).
>
> Well, this is where we diverge: if I'm just playing subsets and
finding
> something good, I'd rather just tune up a scale by hand, with
intervals I
> like, than sort through x number of arbitrary divisions - 22 et
included -
> to see if subsets contain something interesting.

We're agreed, then, that sorting through 22 equal divisions is
cumbersome. That's why I've come up with some scales that select from
them . . . well, I guess my point of view is this. If you've ever
tried to tune a piano, with no prior experience, by ear, so that it
sounds good in every key, you'll know that this is really difficult
to do by just tuning intervals that sound right, without relying on a
prepared plan based on (someone) having done a careful consideration
of interval relationships beforehand. Now, I'm not too concerned with
playing in every key, but even the diatonic scale contends with these
intricacies a little bit. If you're going to have chord progressions.

If you're not going to have chord progressions, well, Dave and I have
some other 22-scales for you . . .

> What is wrong with me? Have I totally misremembered? I am confusing
> Blackjack and Miracle, right? Miracle is a larger tuning, and BJ a
subset,
> right?

Miracle, like Meantone, can have any number of notes you like. Well,
the usual numbers for Meantone are 5, 7, 12, 19, 31 . . . and for
Miracle, 21, 31, 41, 72 . . . In a sense, yes, Blackjack is a scale
*within* Miracle tuning.

> And, with all these question marks, does it seem like you are
> talking to Joseph Pehrson? And where has he been recently?

Good question (I know he was busy with music recently) . . .

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"
<JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

> Except for the fact that I have never once found things that I liked
in 22,
> ever (well, I remember one chord I liked, but I found similar ones
in other
> tunings), and have only had moderate success at being pleased in 19. I
> basically can't stand sitting and playing where each step is the
same. Just
> me.

That's a good start--you want a scale, which could be, for instance, a
scale *in* an equal temperament. MOS are one place to start, but
hardly the only possibility. Again, an embarassment of riches. Do you
have an idea what you find nice when it comes to the ratio of the
largest over the smallest step size?

As for Blackjack, too many notes for non-formal composition; if I was
> going to do a written/planned piece, I might give it consideration.

It's possible to find smaller MOS to noodle around in with
considerable harmonic resources. 13 notes of orwell or magic will give
you a tuning accuracy much better than 19 or 22 equal, will not seem
too blandly even in terms of the different sizes of steps, and will
give you some chords to play with, not to mention loads of intervals.
Nor do you really need to worry about choosing a scale so that you
have only two intervals, which is no biggie, so feel free to add more
notes than 13. I'd be interested to hear what you think of them.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <perlich@a...> wrote:

> I had the exact opposite reaction. Again, I'm pretty darn sure that
> the tuning was the same "Arabic" setting (whose 12 pitches include a
> neutral third and neutral sixth above one tonic) that is used by
> synth players in Middle-Eastern bands everywhere.

Sounded bland to me.

Sure, oud players
> depart from this a bit and use a lot of pitch *expression*, but the
> basic vibe of the tuning sounded just right. Maybe not the
> scales/patterns chosen, but the tuning, yes.
>
> > All of which leads me to suggest that Jon take a stab at my
> questions
> > about what he's looking for in a tuning, and then try one of them
> out.
> > If nothing suggests itself, just go with 19 or 22 equal, or maybe
> > Blackjack.
>
> You're suggesting one of these for the oud example?? Surely you're
> joking, Mr. Smith.

Eh, why not? Don't you think you could sound reasonably exotic, if not
actually Arabic, in 22 equal? Or do you need a neutral third for that?

Anyway, I wasn't suggesting them as tunings to play ouds in.

Jon, I enjoyed Sandspice. Was that you playing in real-time or
sequenced? Nice work either way!

Paolo

Paolo,

{you wrote...}
>Jon, I enjoyed Sandspice.

Thanks. I hope people like stuff I spend some time on!

>Was that you playing in real-time or sequenced? Nice work either way!

Real-time. I don't know if I could be that creative when I 'think' about it...

Cheers,
Jon

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"

/makemicromusic/topicId_6983.html#7012

> What is wrong with me? Have I totally misremembered? I am confusing
> Blackjack and Miracle, right? Miracle is a larger tuning, and BJ a
subset,
> right? And, with all these question marks, does it seem like you
are
> talking to Joseph Pehrson? And where has he been recently?
>

***Thanks! Nice to be missed. Russia, actually, but got some nice
digital pix... :)

Yes, I wouldn't want to use a scale with many more than 21 notes. My
original request to Paul and Dave Keenan was for a nice "just" 19..

JP

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <perlich@a...>

/makemicromusic/topicId_6983.html#7013

wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"
> <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> > P,
> >
> > {you wrote...}
> > >That's a huge hand to be dealt, and I wouldn't expect anyone to
> find much
> > >in there just by "playing around", unfortunately.
> >
> > Yeah, but wait a minute: if I tune up the keyboard in a
particular
> > tuning/scale, and I start trying to build chords, and I don't
like
> the
> > basic intervals that are there...
>
> Well, sure. The only other thing to check is a variety of timbres.
> But after that, if it's not for you, it's not for you. How do you
> feel about 1197-cent octaves?
>
> >
> > >I've found subsets of 22 on the keyboard lead to a lot more
> compositional
> > >seeds than having all of 22 up there (TIBIA was the only
> exception).
> >
> > Well, this is where we diverge: if I'm just playing subsets and
> finding
> > something good, I'd rather just tune up a scale by hand, with
> intervals I
> > like, than sort through x number of arbitrary divisions - 22 et
> included -
> > to see if subsets contain something interesting.
>
> We're agreed, then, that sorting through 22 equal divisions is
> cumbersome. That's why I've come up with some scales that select
from
> them . . . well, I guess my point of view is this. If you've ever
> tried to tune a piano, with no prior experience, by ear, so that it
> sounds good in every key, you'll know that this is really difficult
> to do by just tuning intervals that sound right, without relying on
a
> prepared plan based on (someone) having done a careful
consideration
> of interval relationships beforehand.

***Wow... I can't even imagine trying to do that by "sounding good"
rather than by counting beats... :)

Now, I'm not too concerned with
> playing in every key, but even the diatonic scale contends with
these
> intricacies a little bit. If you're going to have chord
progressions.
>
> If you're not going to have chord progressions, well, Dave and I
have
> some other 22-scales for you . . .
>
> > What is wrong with me? Have I totally misremembered? I am
confusing
> > Blackjack and Miracle, right? Miracle is a larger tuning, and BJ
a
> subset,
> > right?
>
> Miracle, like Meantone, can have any number of notes you like.
Well,
> the usual numbers for Meantone are 5, 7, 12, 19, 31 . . . and for
> Miracle, 21, 31, 41, 72 . . . In a sense, yes, Blackjack is a scale
> *within* Miracle tuning.
>
> > And, with all these question marks, does it seem like you are
> > talking to Joseph Pehrson? And where has he been recently?
>
> Good question (I know he was busy with music recently) . . .

***And I also brought back quite a few recordings and scores from
Russia which I have been going through... then we had our concert at
the end of May... (I know it's July already... :)

JP