A link would be nice...

Great - I mention some music and don't give the link!

If you want to visit the page itself, it is at:

http://www.microtonal.org/music.html

or if you just want to download the file, here it is:

http://www.microtonal.org/mp3/AvonLady.mp3

Cheers,
Jon

`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
Real Life: Orchestral Percussionist
Web Life: "Corporeal Meadows" - about Harry Partch
http://www.corporeal.com/
NOTE:
If your reply bounces, try --> jonszanto@...

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"

/makemicromusic/topicId_5345.html#5345

<JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> Great - I mention some music and don't give the link!
>
> If you want to visit the page itself, it is at:
>
> http://www.microtonal.org/music.html
>
> or if you just want to download the file, here it is:
>
> http://www.microtonal.org/mp3/AvonLady.mp3
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>
> `'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
> Real Life: Orchestral Percussionist
> Web Life: "Corporeal Meadows" - about Harry Partch
> http://www.corporeal.com/
> NOTE:
> If your reply bounces, try --> jonszanto@y...

***Well, there are certainly very sophisticated sounds in this! I'm
sure a more "developed" piece will follow this demo... Congrats!

Joe P.

Finally took the time to listen to this... What a great piece!-- and the samples turned
out really well too-- all that in 2 hours, eh? Your samples sound better than the
chimes and marimba-like presets I bought in a package for $30.

Say... since you're so good at sampling, want to create me a CronoX piano patch? -
Justin

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...>
wrote:
> Great - I mention some music and don't give the link!
>
> If you want to visit the page itself, it is at:
>
> http://www.microtonal.org/music.html
>
> or if you just want to download the file, here it is:
>
> http://www.microtonal.org/mp3/AvonLady.mp3
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>
> `'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
> Real Life: Orchestral Percussionist
> Web Life: "Corporeal Meadows" - about Harry Partch
> http://www.corporeal.com/
> NOTE:
> If your reply bounces, try --> jonszanto@y...

J,

{you wrote...}
>Finally took the time to listen to this... What a great piece!

That does it - you need to get out more.

>-- and the samples turned out really well too-- all that in 2 hours, eh? >Your samples sound better than the chimes and marimba-like presets I >bought in a package for $30.

Hmmm. It shouldn't be that way! I mean, they sounded better before turning them into an mp3, but... Like I said, it was as much an exercise for me as to show something to Alison for investigation. With time, proper planning, etc, I know I can do *much* better than that. Of course, a dedicated sampler would be *really* the thing for that kind of stuff. I'm going to keep working on that, see if we can get someone to develop something worthwhile.

>Say... since you're so good at sampling, want to create me a CronoX piano >patch? -

All kidding aside, I'm not ready to tackle that, and neither is CronoX. I think the key to a box like this is "work within it's own constraints", and you've got to remember: these are one-shot samples that get spread up and down the range. Even if I did a killer sample of a middle C on the best Steinway in town, it is going to sound terribly dumb by at most an octave up or down. Not to mention that a good sampler would not only have multiple notes sampled, but each of those with a variety of volume and timbre, so the you could work out the cross-fading on the velocity to "approximate" the nuances of a good piano. (and I *mean* approximate). CronoX wouldn't work for this.

Well, thanks for the good words, Justin. Must mean if I really work on a piece it's a slam-dunk for kudos, huh? :) Now go take a listen to AJK's piece that I put a link up to, and marvel at the craftsmanship with only two synth sounds and a lot of musicality...

Cheers,
Jon

Jonathan M. Szanto wrote:

>Hmmm. It shouldn't be that way! I mean, they sounded better before turning >them into an mp3, but... Like I said, it was as much an exercise for me as >to show something to Alison for investigation. With time, proper planning, >etc, I know I can do *much* better than that. Of course, a dedicated >sampler would be *really* the thing for that kind of stuff. I'm going to >keep working on that, see if we can get someone to develop something >worthwhile.
> >
It is impressive for 2 hours work. But then simplicity and originality (and talent!) do count for a lot. I suspect the commercial chime and marimba presets were trying too hard to sound like real chimes and marimbas.

Did you try a variable bit rate for the MP3?

>All kidding aside, I'm not ready to tackle that, and neither is CronoX. I >think the key to a box like this is "work within it's own constraints", and >you've got to remember: these are one-shot samples that get spread up and >down the range. Even if I did a killer sample of a middle C on the best >Steinway in town, it is going to sound terribly dumb by at most an octave >up or down. Not to mention that a good sampler would not only have multiple >notes sampled, but each of those with a variety of volume and timbre, so >the you could work out the cross-fading on the velocity to "approximate" >the nuances of a good piano. (and I *mean* approximate). CronoX wouldn't >work for this.
> >
I think you've shown that it's possible to do a lot with one-shot samples. If you can't imitate a piano that way, so much the worse for pianos. Percussive sounds, especially inharmonic ones, are what I find samplers best suited to.

Graham

> I think you've shown that it's possible to do a lot with one-shot
> samples. If you can't imitate a piano that way, so much the worse for
> pianos. Percussive sounds, especially inharmonic ones, are what I find
> samplers best suited to.
>

Yes, that's all I want/need-- a one-shot sampled piano patch. In fact, I don't want it
to sound like a real piano, I just want it to have a piano-like sound. Ideally, it would
be a sample of ONE STRING of middle-C to eliminate the added inharmonicity of the
chorus effect. Also, all the other strings on the piano would be muted to eliminate
any 12tet sympathetic resonances in the sample. The sample would be given a little
bit of reverb and then used as a one-shot sample. I'd do it myself if I knew how. -
Justin

G,

{you wrote...}
>It is impressive for 2 hours work. But then simplicity and originality >(and talent!) do count for a lot. I suspect the commercial chime and >marimba presets were trying too hard to sound like real chimes and marimbas.

How very kind of you, thanks. I know that Justin had purchase some additional sounds, but the only sound banks I had were not so emulative as they were creative, so this really was a quicky experiment to see how like a sampler one could make it. I may take another stab and tweak it more 'away' from creative and really focus on just sample reproduction. We'll see.

>Did you try a variable bit rate for the MP3?

Didn't mess with it. Definitely sounds better (and smaller) in .ogg format, but wanted the easiest end-result for the most people.

>If you can't imitate a piano that way, so much the worse for pianos.

I'm going to try importing a couple of piano sounds from my JV-1080, which aren't bad, and see what I can do.

>Percussive sounds, especially inharmonic ones, are what I find samplers >best suited to.

Why do you think I have so many fewer studio calls these days? It is a double-edge sword...

Cheers,
Jon

Hey Jon...

> Avon Lady

Finally got to downloading & listing to this one. What a totally fun
piece! It has a nice bubbly quality that got me giggling...

> Must mean if I really work on a
> piece it's a slam-dunk for kudos, huh? :)

Yeah, I'd say. Sure, you could take this one "seriously"... Spend more
than 2 hours on it and work it up into something more extended. It's sure
to be a hit.

Rick

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"
> Well, thanks for the good words, Justin. Must mean if I really work on a
> piece it's a slam-dunk for kudos, huh? :) Now go take a listen to AJK's
> piece that I put a link up to, and marvel at the craftsmanship with only
> two synth sounds and a lot of musicality...

Jon-
It really IS impressive that you came up with 'Avon Lady', plus the tech work to do
it with samples, etc. in 2 hours!!! And it has a great groove to boot.....keep it up!

-Aaron.

Yes, seriously I think all art should have some degree of spontaneity to it... most of
the best things in life happen by accident. -Justin

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "akjmicro" <akjmicro@y...> wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto"
> > Well, thanks for the good words, Justin. Must mean if I really work on a
> > piece it's a slam-dunk for kudos, huh? :) Now go take a listen to AJK's
> > piece that I put a link up to, and marvel at the craftsmanship with only
> > two synth sounds and a lot of musicality...
>
>
> Jon-
> It really IS impressive that you came up with 'Avon Lady', plus the tech work to do
> it with samples, etc. in 2 hours!!! And it has a great groove to boot.....keep it up!
>
> -Aaron.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Justin Weaver"
<improvist@u...> wrote:
> > I think you've shown that it's possible to do a lot with one-shot
> > samples. If you can't imitate a piano that way, so much the
worse for
> > pianos. Percussive sounds, especially inharmonic ones, are what
I find
> > samplers best suited to.
> >
>
> Yes, that's all I want/need-- a one-shot sampled piano patch. In
>fact, I don't want it
> to sound like a real piano, I just want it to have a piano-like
>sound. Ideally, it would
> be a sample of ONE STRING of middle-C to eliminate the added
>inharmonicity of the
> chorus effect.

Hi Justin,

Of course you're right that two or three strings will never be tuned
to *exactly* the same tension, just because they would each play a
slightly different pitch when played individually doesn't mean that
they will still play those slightly different pitches (yielding a
chorus effect) when played together. In fact, the strings will
interact physically and often pull each other into exact synchrony,
like Kepler's pendulum clocks mounted on the same wall. In such
cases, there will be no beating or chorusing at all, and instead one
may observe an amplitude envelope with a considerable sustain
portion, something not possible with a single string alone.

See
http://www.speech.kth.se/music/5_lectures/weinreic/mistuned.html
and the surrounding articles.

Happy New Year,
Paul

> In fact, the strings will
>interact physically and often pull each other into exact synchrony,
>like Kepler's pendulum clocks mounted on the same wall.

Wasn't that Huygens, or someone other than Kepler?

-Carl

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> > In fact, the strings will
> >interact physically and often pull each other into exact
synchrony,
> >like Kepler's pendulum clocks mounted on the same wall.
>
> Wasn't that Huygens, or someone other than Kepler?
>
> -Carl

A quick web search says it was Huygens. So we have yet another reason
Huygens is relevant for music -- another being the site Scala resides
on (had to bring it back on topic)!