Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup makemicromusic multi-port interfaces

Well I'm going to have to "graduate" to a multi-port MIDI interface,
obviously. At Sam Ash they were asking me if I had a USB port, and I
said I believed I had only a *serial* port. I'm going to ask a
friend who helps me with my machine from time to time. He should
know. However, is there any other way to immediately find out??

They were showing me a two in and two out interface. However, if I
were to get a *four* in and *four* out interface could I do the
following??:

To the interface:

MIDI OUT from "dummy keyboard" to MIDI IN 1 and soundcard

MIDI OUT from TX8IZs to MIDI IN 2

MIDI OUT from another synth to MIDI IN 3

From the interface:

MIDI OUT 2 back to the TX81z's etc.

MIDI OUT 3, similarly.

In other words, will I be able to select from the software which "ins
and outs" to use?? That would be the *sequencer* software, right,
not the software that would come with the interface??

Sorry to be so ignorant about all this...

🔗Jonathan M. Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

Joe,

{you wrote...}
>At Sam Ash they were asking me if I had a USB port, and I said I believed >I had only a *serial* port. I'm going to ask a friend who helps me with >my machine from time to time.

Even if you have a slightly older PC with no USB on the motherboard, they have cards for (literally) only a couple of bucks that add USB support. You should get a USB multi-port device.

>They were showing me a two in and two out interface. However, if I were >to get a *four* in and *four* out interface could I do the following??:

>To the interface:
>
>MIDI OUT from "dummy keyboard" to MIDI IN 1 and soundcard
>
>MIDI OUT from TX8IZs to MIDI IN 2
>
>MIDI OUT from another synth to MIDI IN 3
>
> From the interface:
>
>MIDI OUT 2 back to the TX81z's etc.
>
>MIDI OUT 3, similarly.

No, you don't need any of those extra connections! What you want is:

Midi In #1: from your kbd
Midi In #2-4: you won't use these unless you have some other device that will be *sending* Midi data to the computer

Midi Out #1-4: You have two ways to do this:

1. Simply run a midi cable to each synth box you have (up to 4, obviously) and then you will select, on a track-by-track basis in your sequencer, which port to use. The Midi driver software that comes with the port box should make this happen

2. If you have more than 4 boxes (like I do) then you can start assigning them to different midi receive channels, and (for instance) take midi out 1 to synth 1, set to receive on channel 1, and use a midi cable from the 'thru' port on the back of synth 1 to go to the midi 'in' port on synth 2, and then set synth 2 to receive on midi channel 2 (or any other of the 16 channels you want). In your sequencer you would then set each track to which *port* AND *which* channel you are sending data to.

[Note: if you "daisy chain" (from midi thru to midi in) too many boxes together you *may* get some lag time in the midi data stream, and the last synth in the chain may sound late. Honestly? I've never had it happen in any of my setups...]

The amazing thing about #2 is that even with a 4 port box, you could now address information to 64 different channels (i.e. 4 x 16 midi channels), which means that even if you are working with just a couple of 81z boxes you can do a lot of multi-timbral work!

I use the MidiSport 4X4 from MidiMan, and it has worked like a charm on both a desktop and my laptop. Not expensive, super easy to setup and use, and highly recommended.

>In other words, will I be able to select from the software which "ins
>and outs" to use?? That would be the *sequencer* software, right,
>not the software that would come with the interface??
>
>Sorry to be so ignorant about all this...
>
>JP
>
>
>
>
>
>
>[MMM info]-------------------------------------------------------
>More music files from MMM are at http://www.microtonal.org/music/
>-------------------------------------------------------[MMM info]
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
Real Life: Orchestral Percussionist
Web Life: "Corporeal Meadows" - about Harry Partch
http://www.corporeal.com/
NOTE:
If your reply bounces, try --> jonszanto@...

🔗jpehrson2 <jpehrson@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "jacky_ligon" <jacky_ligon@y...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_unknown.html#3242

> --- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> > Well I'm going to have to "graduate" to a multi-port MIDI
> interface,
> > obviously. At Sam Ash they were asking me if I had a USB port,
and
> I
> > said I believed I had only a *serial* port. I'm going to ask a
> > friend who helps me with my machine from time to time. He should
> > know. However, is there any other way to immediately find out??
>
> Joseph,
>
> 1. Click "Start", "Settings", "Control Panel".
>
> 2. Dbl-Click "Sounds and Multimedia Properties"
>
> 3. Click the "+" for "Midi Devices and Instruments".
>
> Here you can see what you've got, and very likely it is some kind
of PCI midi card.

***Hi Jacky. Oh. Well, I know I have a SoundBlaster 128. What I
was wondering is whether I have a USB port, which I don't think I
have. Is there a way to find *that* out easily??

(My computer, although more than adequate in terms of memory and
speed, is a few years old at its "core")

>
>
> >
> > They were showing me a two in and two out interface. However, if
I
> > were to get a *four* in and *four* out interface could I do the
> > following??:
> >
> > To the interface:
> >
> > MIDI OUT from "dummy keyboard" to MIDI IN 1 and soundcard
> >
> > MIDI OUT from TX8IZs to MIDI IN 2
> >
> > MIDI OUT from another synth to MIDI IN 3
> >
> > From the interface:
> >
> > MIDI OUT 2 back to the TX81z's etc.
> >
> > MIDI OUT 3, similarly.
> >
> > In other words, will I be able to select from the software
> which "ins
> > and outs" to use??
>
> Yes. In some special cases, one needs to have a merge. I bought a
> midi merge box, because I have a rather complex set-up which
involves using a software synth editor. More ports are good.
>
>
> That would be the *sequencer* software, right,
> > not the software that would come with the interface??
>
> The interface will have drivers, which will allow your DAW to see
the midi card.
>
> When you look at the midi properties in the sequencer you use, you
> will see that you can configure midi to be sent to any available
> chosen outputs. When you add a card with more ports, they'll be
there in yer DAW properties after you install the drivers for it.
>

***Got it! I get it!!!
>
> > Sorry to be so ignorant about all this...
>
> We've all been there. The desire to learn is not ignorance.
>

***Thanks, Jacky! You're the best!

🔗jpehrson2 <jpehrson@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_3240.html#3243

> Joe,
>
> {you wrote...}
> >At Sam Ash they were asking me if I had a USB port, and I said I
believed I had only a *serial* port. I'm going to ask a friend who
helps me with my machine from time to time.
>
> Even if you have a slightly older PC with no USB on the
motherboard, they have cards for (literally) only a couple of bucks
that add USB support. You should get a USB multi-port device.
>

***Thanks for the info., Jon! They were saying, though, at Sam Ash
that they could "special" order a multi-port interface that worked
with the *serial* port rather than an USB. Does it really make any
difference??

> >They were showing me a two in and two out interface. However, if
I were to get a *four* in and *four* out interface could I do the
following??:
>
> >To the interface:
> >
> >MIDI OUT from "dummy keyboard" to MIDI IN 1 and soundcard
> >
> >MIDI OUT from TX8IZs to MIDI IN 2
> >
> >MIDI OUT from another synth to MIDI IN 3
> >
> > From the interface:
> >
> >MIDI OUT 2 back to the TX81z's etc.
> >
> >MIDI OUT 3, similarly.
>
> No, you don't need any of those extra connections! What you want is:
>
> Midi In #1: from your kbd
> Midi In #2-4: you won't use these unless you have some other device
that will be *sending* Midi data to the computer

****Yes, but the thing is, I need to have MIDI data sent BACK FROM
the TX81Zs when I am working with my Patch Editor. (SoundQuest) It
needs *both* a MIDI *in* and a MIDI *out.*

>
> Midi Out #1-4: You have two ways to do this:
>
> 1. Simply run a midi cable to each synth box you have (up to 4,
obviously) and then you will select, on a track-by-track basis in
your sequencer, which port to use. The Midi driver software that
comes with the port box should make this happen
>
> 2. If you have more than 4 boxes (like I do) then you can start
assigning them to different midi receive channels, and (for instance)
take midi out 1 to synth 1, set to receive on channel 1, and use a
midi cable from the 'thru' port on the back of synth 1 to go to the
midi 'in' port on synth 2, and then set synth 2 to receive on midi
channel 2 (or any other of the 16 channels you want). In your
sequencer you would then set each track to which *port* AND *which*
channel you are sending data to.

***Yes, this part, fortunately, I know...

>
> [Note: if you "daisy chain" (from midi thru to midi in) too many
boxes together you *may* get some lag time in the midi data stream,
and the last synth in the chain may sound late. Honestly? I've never
had it happen in any of my setups...]

***That I didn't know.

>
> The amazing thing about #2 is that even with a 4 port box, you
could now address information to 64 different channels (i.e. 4 x 16
midi channels), which means that even if you are working with just a
couple of 81z boxes you can do a lot of multi-timbral work!

***But wait! The two TX81Zs only have 16 channels, total! So even
if I have more ports, I can't send *twice* or *three* times to the
same channel, no???

>
> I use the MidiSport 4X4 from MidiMan, and it has worked like a
charm on both a desktop and my laptop. Not expensive, super easy to
setup and use, and highly recommended.
>

***I think that's the one they were showing me, but thanks for the
recommendation.

Thanks, Jon!

🔗Jonathan M. Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

Joe,

{you wrote...}
>***Thanks for the info., Jon! They were saying, though, at Sam Ash that >they could "special" order a multi-port interface that worked with the >*serial* port rather than an USB. Does it really make any difference??

Yes. Virtually all 'peripheral' components being made for PCs utilize the USB port, and it is the way to go (getting a serial device is simply investing in outdated and soon-to-be unsupported hardware). Not to mention that USB devices can be 'daisy chained', and they can be 'hot' plugged, which means you can plug and unplug them, and the computer will recognize what has just been added to the system. I swap a USB midi device and a Zip drive on my laptop all the time. And on my desktop I have USB film scanner, flatbed scanner, color printer, and midi device. Can't have 4 serial ports, that's for sure.

>****Yes, but the thing is, I need to have MIDI data sent BACK FROM the >TX81Zs when I am working with my Patch Editor. (SoundQuest) It needs >*both* a MIDI *in* and a MIDI *out.*

No problem: just send the midi out from the TX into any of midi in #2-4.

>***But wait! The two TX81Zs only have 16 channels, total! So even if I >have more ports, I can't send *twice* or *three* times to the same >channel, no???

No. If you only had the 2 z's, you *could* do it all with one midi out on the 16 channels. But how about planning ahead? What if you get the Proteus 2000, or other midi gear (like a TX802)? The bottom line is that the cost difference between the 1x1, 2x2, and 4x4 is fairly negligible, and you can plan for expansion.

Remember, one of the downsides of multi-timbral on the TX boxes is that the more separate channels/voices you use, the less polyphony in that part. If you set up one box with 8 patches responding (each) to 8 separate channels, you can now only give one note at a time per patch/voice.

Multi-timbral is great, but with harmonic or complex music you *need* voices, and it is better to have another box (even if borrowed) that can be addressed by another midi port or channel.

OK, hope that helps. And sorry to GZ for the technobabble - use that delete key!

Cheers,
Jon

🔗jpehrson2 <jpehrson@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "X. J. Scott" <xjscott@e...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_unknown.html#3248

> > ***Thanks for the info., Jon! They were saying, though, at Sam
Ash
> > that they could "special" order a multi-port interface that worked
> > with the *serial* port rather than an USB. Does it really make
any
> > difference??
>
> In the long run a USB interface will last you longer since
> that is the way thinks are done now and the old serial port is
> obsolete. So when you update your computer, you will still be
> able to use your MIDI interface rather than have to get a new
> one again.
>

***Hmmm. I appreciate the help, Jeff. Maybe I'll get my "computer
guru" friend to install this for me. (Not that I couldn't, myself,
but he's *supposed* to do stuff like this in return for his kids'
piano lessons!)

I'll *definitely* talk to him about it. I'm glad I mentioned it on
this list!!! Way to go, MMM!

🔗jpehrson2 <jpehrson@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_3240.html#3249

> Joe,
>
> {you wrote...}
> >***Thanks for the info., Jon! They were saying, though, at Sam
Ash that
> >they could "special" order a multi-port interface that worked with
the
> >*serial* port rather than an USB. Does it really make any
difference??
>
> Yes. Virtually all 'peripheral' components being made for PCs
utilize the
> USB port, and it is the way to go (getting a serial device is
simply
> investing in outdated and soon-to-be unsupported hardware). Not to
mention
> that USB devices can be 'daisy chained', and they can be 'hot'
plugged,
> which means you can plug and unplug them, and the computer will
recognize
> what has just been added to the system. I swap a USB midi device
and a Zip
> drive on my laptop all the time. And on my desktop I have USB film
scanner,
> flatbed scanner, color printer, and midi device. Can't have 4
serial ports,
> that's for sure.
>
> >****Yes, but the thing is, I need to have MIDI data sent BACK FROM
the
> >TX81Zs when I am working with my Patch Editor. (SoundQuest) It
needs
> >*both* a MIDI *in* and a MIDI *out.*
>
> No problem: just send the midi out from the TX into any of midi in
#2-4.
>
> >***But wait! The two TX81Zs only have 16 channels, total! So
even if I
> >have more ports, I can't send *twice* or *three* times to the same
> >channel, no???
>
> No. If you only had the 2 z's, you *could* do it all with one midi
out on
> the 16 channels. But how about planning ahead? What if you get the
Proteus
> 2000, or other midi gear (like a TX802)? The bottom line is that
the cost
> difference between the 1x1, 2x2, and 4x4 is fairly negligible, and
you can
> plan for expansion.
>
> Remember, one of the downsides of multi-timbral on the TX boxes is
that the
> more separate channels/voices you use, the less polyphony in that
part. If
> you set up one box with 8 patches responding (each) to 8 separate
channels,
> you can now only give one note at a time per patch/voice.
>
> Multi-timbral is great, but with harmonic or complex music you
*need*
> voices, and it is better to have another box (even if borrowed)
that can be
> addressed by another midi port or channel.
>
> OK, hope that helps. And sorry to GZ for the technobabble - use
that delete
> key!
>
> Cheers,
> Jon

***Jon, I *really* appreciate your helpfulness, and Jacky and Jeff
Scott's too! What a great list for making and enhancing microtonal
music!

I want to make *absolutely certain* though that I understand what you
are saying:

You are saying that I can buy a card that will go into a slot of my
computer and will give me a USB port, yes? And is it *one* port per
card??

Thanks, Jon!

🔗Jonathan M. Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

Joe,

{you wrote...}
>***Jon, I *really* appreciate your helpfulness, and Jacky and Jeff Scott's >too! What a great list for making and enhancing microtonal music!

<blush>

>I want to make *absolutely certain* though that I understand what you are >saying:
>
>You are saying that I can buy a card that will go into a slot of my >computer and will give me a USB port, yes? And is it *one* port per card??

Yep. For instance:

http://www.provantage.com/PR_59940.HTM

For less than $15.00, you now have *two* USB ports. And since they can be 'daisy chained', you can add a port expander; for instance, one advertised today is standard: you plug it into one of the above USB ports and it adds four more ports. Cost? $0.00 with the rebate - yes, it is free.

I forgot to mention that is seems like virtually EVERY printer these days uses USB instead of serial, not to mention all the digital cams and stuff. Definitely the way for you to go.

Please note: USB is *not* supported by Win95; you must be using Win98 or 2000 or later...

Cheers,
Jon

🔗jpehrson2 <jpehrson@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_3240.html#3255

> Joe,
>
> {you wrote...}
> >***Jon, I *really* appreciate your helpfulness, and Jacky and Jeff
Scott's
> >too! What a great list for making and enhancing microtonal music!
>
> <blush>
>
> >I want to make *absolutely certain* though that I understand what
you are
> >saying:
> >
> >You are saying that I can buy a card that will go into a slot of
my
> >computer and will give me a USB port, yes? And is it *one* port
per card??
>
> Yep. For instance:
>
> http://www.provantage.com/PR_59940.HTM
>
> For less than $15.00, you now have *two* USB ports. And since they
can be
> 'daisy chained', you can add a port expander; for instance, one
advertised
> today is standard: you plug it into one of the above USB ports and
it adds
> four more ports. Cost? $0.00 with the rebate - yes, it is free.
>
> I forgot to mention that is seems like virtually EVERY printer
these days
> uses USB instead of serial, not to mention all the digital cams and
stuff.
> Definitely the way for you to go.
>
> Please note: USB is *not* supported by Win95; you must be using
Win98 or
> 2000 or later...
>
> Cheers,
> Jon

***Thanks so much, Jon, especially for the link. Seems like this is
*definitely* the way to go, as you say. I'm running Win98, so no
problem there.

Thanks so much!

Joe

🔗jpehrson2 <jpehrson@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "jacky_ligon" <jacky_ligon@y...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_unknown.html#3242

> When you look at the midi properties in the sequencer you use, you
> will see that you can configure midi to be sent to any available
> chosen outputs. When you add a card with more ports, they'll be
there in yer DAW properties after you install the drivers for it.
>

***Hi Jacky (or anybody)

So, basically, what you're saying is that when I get a multi-port
interface and install the software, I'll look in my sequencer and
will see for selection: "Interface Whatever Port 1" "Interface
Whatever Port 2", etc., etc.??

Thanks!

🔗jpehrson2 <jpehrson@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_3240.html#3249

***Well, this is pretty cool, and I didn't have time to read it
carefully enough yesterday. What you're saying, Jon, is that with a
USB port one can plug and unplug different devices into it and the
computer will figure out what they are immediately with no problems??

Thanks!

🔗jpehrson2 <jpehrson@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_3240.html#3255

>>
> http://www.provantage.com/PR_59940.HTM
>

Again, this was a great reference, Jon. Frankly, it looks as though
it might be worth it to "go for broke" and actually get the FOUR USB
ports for $30, since I'll be putting the card in anyway. I'm using
Windows 98, so this should work.

I'm so glad I mentioned this stuff to you guys, since at Sam Ash they
said *nothing* about these possibilities.

I don't have a scanner yet, either, and, from reading the commentary,
if I were to get one, I would *need* USB these days. Ditto for a
digital camera, if I were to have time to mess around with that...

best,

🔗Jonathan M. Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

Joe,

{you wrote...}
>So, basically, what you're saying is that when I get a multi-port >interface and install the software, I'll look in my sequencer and will see >for selection: "Interface Whatever Port 1" "Interface Whatever Port 2", >etc., etc.??

Yes, it is the driver that does this. After installing the 4x4 midi device I use, when I want to assign a track to a midi out it gives me a choice of which port (1-4) and which midi channel on that port (1-16). I could immediately write lines for 64 separate midi channels.

Or pick up my bongo drums and go unplugged.

Cheers,
Jon

🔗Jonathan M. Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

Joe,

>What you're saying, Jon, is that with a USB port one can plug and unplug >different devices into it and the computer will figure out what they are >immediately with no problems??

Hey, it's computers we're talking about! "Immediately" and "no problems" are always bad terms to use, but from my experience (about two years of USB use) it does pretty much work that way.

Each USB device has some kind of code to identify it, and upon plugging in, the OS can identify the device and make sure the drivers for it are present and loaded.

At least four devices are installed at all times on my desktop (2 scanners, printer, and sync cradle for my Visor), but my laptop has no permanent connections, and I swap between the 4x4 midi device and a USB Zip drive. Works like a charm every time...

Cheers,
Jon

🔗jpehrson2 <jpehrson@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_3240.html#3276

> Joe,
>
> {you wrote...}
> >So, basically, what you're saying is that when I get a multi-port
> >interface and install the software, I'll look in my sequencer and
will see
> >for selection: "Interface Whatever Port 1" "Interface Whatever
Port 2",
> >etc., etc.??
>
> Yes, it is the driver that does this. After installing the 4x4 midi
device
> I use, when I want to assign a track to a midi out it gives me a
choice of
> which port (1-4) and which midi channel on that port (1-16). I
could
> immediately write lines for 64 separate midi channels.
>
> Or pick up my bongo drums and go unplugged.
>
> Cheers,
> Jon

***Thanks, Jon, for your (always) prompt replies!

🔗jpehrson2 <jpehrson@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_3240.html#3277

> Joe,
>
> >What you're saying, Jon, is that with a USB port one can plug and
unplug
> >different devices into it and the computer will figure out what
they are
> >immediately with no problems??
>
> Hey, it's computers we're talking about! "Immediately" and "no
problems"
> are always bad terms to use, but from my experience (about two
years of USB
> use) it does pretty much work that way.
>
> Each USB device has some kind of code to identify it, and upon
plugging in,
> the OS can identify the device and make sure the drivers for it are
present
> and loaded.
>
> At least four devices are installed at all times on my desktop (2
scanners,
> printer, and sync cradle for my Visor), but my laptop has no
permanent
> connections, and I swap between the 4x4 midi device and a USB Zip
drive.
> Works like a charm every time...
>
> Cheers,
> Jon

***Thanks, again, Jon. Tomorrow my friend/guru will get the
treatment, "and I thought we were up-to-date on all this...??"

I appreciate the help!

Joe