donevier and tritonica

Joe wrote:

>What does "Donevier" mean again? It's probably something I should
know...

Little wonder that you dont - its the name of a fictional character
who's been dead for 700 years.

>Anyway, I just mean by "pop" the kind of rhythmic regularity that
kicks in at about 16 seconds into the piece, after the intro where
the various sounds are "let ring" a bit.

I get it. Your suggestion is essentially one of focus - you'd
like to hear the timbre drive the music, rather than the percussion.
And since you liked the opending timbres, it might be good to
develop them further. No promises, but I'll think about
what it could be like. My first thought is that 7 is a hard enough
pulse to capture, and so one of the reasons for the percussive
emphasis was precisely to define this clearly.
Im worried that a more amorphous beat would lose the 7 completely.

>A good example is the recent post by Jacky Ligon, the _Tritonica_.

Not only wasnt there any harmonic motion, there was only one NOTE
in the whole piece! Great job, Jacky, and I agree here that
the timbral variations (in the NOTE) drive the piece nicely.

--Bill Sethares

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., sethares@e... wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_2968.html#2968

>
>
> Joe wrote:
>
> >What does "Donevier" mean again? It's probably something I should
> know...
>
> Little wonder that you dont - its the name of a fictional character
> who's been dead for 700 years.
>
> >Anyway, I just mean by "pop" the kind of rhythmic regularity that
> kicks in at about 16 seconds into the piece, after the intro where
> the various sounds are "let ring" a bit.
>
> I get it. Your suggestion is essentially one of focus - you'd
> like to hear the timbre drive the music, rather than the percussion.
> And since you liked the opending timbres, it might be good to
> develop them further. No promises, but I'll think about
> what it could be like. My first thought is that 7 is a hard enough
> pulse to capture, and so one of the reasons for the percussive
> emphasis was precisely to define this clearly.
> Im worried that a more amorphous beat would lose the 7 completely.
>

***That's it *exactly* Bill. I think the development of the timbres
would be *very* interesting, much more than worrying about the 7's.
Not so many composers have done the interesting experiments in timbre
that *you* have done, but *lots* of people have written in 7!

As I said, there is absolutely *nothing* wrong with the first
version; I was just intrigued by the idea of taking it "out" the
*other* way.

best,

Joe

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "jacky_ligon" <jacky_ligon@y...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_unknown.html#2969

> --- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., sethares@e... wrote:
> >
> > Not only wasnt there any harmonic motion, there was only one NOTE
> > in the whole piece! Great job, Jacky, and I agree here that
> > the timbral variations (in the NOTE) drive the piece nicely.
> >
> >
> > --Bill Sethares
>
> And everyone thought I was joking about the Unitonic Chant Tuning!
>
> Ha ha ha!
>
> NOT!
>
> Perhaps these "timbres" or "music" or whatever one may like to call
> them (even I'm not sure), should be used in more developed
> compositional settings (or else as stated in film or digital
video),
> but I suppose it is a kind of ultra-minimalist aesthetic to create
> interesting drones. I remember in that particular 'experiment'
> getting to a point in creating the texture, and just
thinking "Well -
> this stands on its own, I'll take it no further".
>
> Thanks Bill.
>
>
> J:L

***Personally, I think it would be *ruined* if you messed around too
much with it...

jp

J und B,

I like them both

in unison, and in 7

shunning the hex

I'm transported to heaven

Danke,
George

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., sethares@e... wrote:
>
>
> Joe wrote:

> >Anyway, I just mean by "pop" the kind of rhythmic regularity that
> kicks in at about 16 seconds into the piece, after the intro where
> the various sounds are "let ring" a bit.

i found bill sethares's piece to be very "pop" in other ways as well.
can music in odd time signatures and shifting tonalities be pop? you
bet! have you listened to stereolab? i'd recommend the album _dots
and loops_ though i'm told _cobra and phases group_ is a great one.

as for tuning, bill's piece certainly could be transcribed in
traditional notation without doing any disservice to its musical
content. just as bob wendell's choral group and, say, Take 6, can
sing traditionally notated pieces in adaptive tuning, so this
particular adaptively tuned piece could be notated traditionally. so
i can't reject the "pop" label on the basis of tuning.

finally, as an avid collector of fusion and progressive rock music, i
enjoyed the piece immensely. it would be right at home on my CD rack,
yet it clearly resembles no band or artist i've heard before. it
reminds me a tiny bit of some of bill bruford's solo work and his
work in 1980's king crimson, of the dixie dregs, etc. . . but really
it shines its own bright light of originality (who cares if an
algorithm is or isn't the source of most of this originality) . . .
so a big CONGRATULATIONS to you and a big ROCK ON -- i hope you'll
pursue such original directions more in the future!!

> I get it. Your suggestion is essentially one of focus - you'd
> like to hear the timbre drive the music, rather than the percussion.
> And since you liked the opending timbres, it might be good to
> develop them further. No promises, but I'll think about
> what it could be like. My first thought is that 7 is a hard enough
> pulse to capture, and so one of the reasons for the percussive
> emphasis was precisely to define this clearly.

i think this worked out wonderfully. i think you did so with plenty
of subtlety and care, so that the pulse doesn't become tedious or
overbearing -- the rhythm is wide-open with plenty of room for the
various instruments to engage in a very free rhythmic interplay. just
what i like!

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "paulerlich" <paul@s...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_2968.html#3099

> i think this worked out wonderfully. i think you did so with plenty
> of subtlety and care, so that the pulse doesn't become tedious or
> overbearing -- the rhythm is wide-open with plenty of room for the
> various instruments to engage in a very free rhythmic interplay.
just what i like!

***I guess if the truth be told, I prefer Bill's _Morphine and
Cymbal_ type style. That's a piece I've always liked...

JP

Joe (and Bill and Paul),

{you wrote...}
>***I guess if the truth be told, I prefer Bill's _Morphine and Cymbal_ >type style. That's a piece I've always liked...

Well, I'll say this: hats off to a composer who has at *least* TWO styles that people find depth and enjoyment in! Haven't we all known composers that had pieces that all sounded the same, and we dreaded each and every piece? :)

Cheers,
Jon

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_2968.html#3102

> Joe (and Bill and Paul),
>
> {you wrote...}
> >***I guess if the truth be told, I prefer Bill's _Morphine and
Cymbal_
> >type style. That's a piece I've always liked...
>
> Well, I'll say this: hats off to a composer who has at *least* TWO
styles
> that people find depth and enjoyment in! Haven't we all known
composers
> that had pieces that all sounded the same, and we dreaded each and
every
> piece? :)
>
> Cheers,
> Jon

***Good point, Jon, although Harry Partch's style was pretty
consistent throughout his lifetime... :)

Me be bad boy... :)

JP

Joe,

{you wrote...}
>***Good point, Jon, although Harry Partch's style was pretty consistent >throughout his lifetime... :)
>
>Me be bad boy... :)

No, just under-informed. In no way could a composer who did both the Li Po song settings and the music of "Delusion of the Fury" be considered mono-stylistic. One of the difficulties of introducing a new listener to Partch is... which Partch? The Partch of the intimate and personal early 'song' period? The mid-period, 'Americana' Partch of the "Wayward" cycle? The Partch of large-scale (and large 'orchestra') theatre-dramas?

Lot's o' variety.

Cheers,
Jon