Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup makemicromusic Re: [MMM] Mom delivers

"Jonathan M. Szanto" wrote:

> List,
>
> Yeah, I know, you thought I was simply sitting on my thumbs the past
> few
> weeks. Nope. Too busy, thumbs included. I've mentioned about a program
> I
> did, and I promised to bring a little to you. While better photos will
> have
> to wait (these were shot in the storage/basement area of Copley
> Symphony
> Hall), and audio of the music (as well as - hopefully - video) are
> pending
> delivery of the recordings from the concert, I wanted to at least
> share
> some of the fun of designing, building, and performing on some new
> microtonal instruments.
>
> Bogus, slapped-together page for your enjoyment (I hope):
>
> http://www.microtonal.org/depot.html
>
> Yours always,
> Jon (AKA ListMom)
>
> `'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
> Real Life: Orchestral Percussionist
> Web Life: "Corporeal Meadows" - about Harry Partch

Brilliant stuff Jon - What do you do with the springs? Whack them? Any
sound samples? I love the plastic. When are you touring Scotland.

I'm behind y'all in time and personnel but by the end of summer I hope
to have something similar. Some new photos of my developing set coming
up soon which includes a two and a bit octave steel tube inverted
d'Allessandro eikosany - about 70 tubes - which explains my absence from
the lists - nursing blisters.

More please

Kind Regards

🔗George Zelenz <ploo@...>

🔗Jonathan M. Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

Alison,

{you wrote...}
>Brilliant stuff Jon - What do you do with the springs? Whack them?

Thanks, and yep. Hard to describe, but...

>Any sound samples?

Maybe I can make a quick and dirty recording of the two (I used to have four or five, but one day a zealous maintenance person threw them out!)

>I love the plastic. When are you touring Scotland.

<sigh> Don't I wish!!! Best I can do these days is pour a dram at the end of a long day... The plastic stuff is great: easy to work with, modest in cost, stands a lot of abuse. I didn't mention it, but while some of the materials I already had, the bulk of what is shown in these instruments cost me no more than about $100 and my time.

>which includes a two and a bit octave steel tube inverted d'Allessandro >eikosany - about 70 tubes - which explains my absence from the lists - >nursing blisters.

Yow! 70 tubes!!! Must be seen!!!

>More please

Hopefully in the next couple of weeks, but don't quote me. :)

Cheers,
Jon

🔗Alison Monteith <alison.monteith3@...>

George Zelenz wrote:

>
> Alison Monteith wrote:
>
> > up soon which includes a two and a bit octave steel tube inverted
> > d'Allessandro eikosany - about 70 tubes - which explains my absence
> from
>
> Hi Alison,
>
> by inverted do you mean sub-harmonic, or do you play the thing
> standing on
> your head?
>
> What kind/ size steel tube?
>
> gz
>
> I do the headstand thing before composition. The 'inverted' is the
> name given in Xenharmonicon 11 or see : -

> http://www.anaphoria.com/dal.PDF

I used 1/2" tube for this one which gives me very long tubes at the
lower end, so I won't be able to lay them out a la Wilson, ie in 3's and
2's. I've chosen a semicircular layout which looks like a fan, or, to
be more poetic, a shower of meteorites. As for heads, you'll need an
"Exorcist" style swiveller to play it. The photos are being developed as
I write.

Regards

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

Alison!
You might want to look at The Crib of Brass on
http://www.anaphoria.com/musinst.html
for a good Bosanquet layout of tubes. This is what i came to after using
originally tubes and tried all types of configurations. Tight space and easy
to get around when playing.

Alison Monteith wrote:

>
> >
> > I do the headstand thing before composition. The 'inverted' is the
> > name given in Xenharmonicon 11 or see : -
>
> > http://www.anaphoria.com/dal.PDF
>
> I used 1/2" tube for this one which gives me very long tubes at the
> lower end, so I won't be able to lay them out a la Wilson, ie in 3's and
> 2's. I've chosen a semicircular layout which looks like a fan, or, to
> be more poetic, a shower of meteorites. As for heads, you'll need an
> "Exorcist" style swiveller to play it. The photos are being developed as
> I write.
>
> Regards
>
> erms/

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

🔗Alison Monteith <alison.monteith3@...>

Kraig Grady wrote:

> Alison!
> You might want to look at The Crib of Brass on
> http://www.anaphoria.com/musinst.html
> for a good Bosanquet layout of tubes. This is what i came to after
> using
> originally tubes and tried all types of configurations. Tight space
> and easy
> to get around when playing.
>

Yes I've looked at that picture many times and it is visually appealing.
Shame the instrument was destroyed. I'd need to see more detail to
consider copying it. It looks easier than the three stands that I'm
planning to make for my two and a bit octaves. Any diagrams in the
Anaphorian archives perchance?

I would have thought that playing would be tricky with only the ends of
the tubes to beat.

Regards

🔗George Zelenz <ploo@...>

Alison,

I have found that hitting the ends of tubes is most effective below middle
C. Actually preferable. Above middle C, it's definitely better to hit in the
middle. This is with aluminum anyway.

Remember to be careful with any holes you drill. Nodes please!

Good luck!

BTW, what key are you tuning it in?

George

Alison Monteith wrote:

> Kraig Grady wrote:
>
> > Alison!
> > You might want to look at The Crib of Brass on
> > http://www.anaphoria.com/musinst.html
> > for a good Bosanquet layout of tubes. This is what i came to after
> > using
> > originally tubes and tried all types of configurations. Tight space
> > and easy
> > to get around when playing.
> >
>
> Yes I've looked at that picture many times and it is visually appealing.
> Shame the instrument was destroyed. I'd need to see more detail to
> consider copying it. It looks easier than the three stands that I'm
> planning to make for my two and a bit octaves. Any diagrams in the
> Anaphorian archives perchance?
>
> I would have thought that playing would be tricky with only the ends of
> the tubes to beat.
>
> Regards
>
>
> [MMM info]-------------------------------------------------------
> More music files from MMM are at http://www.microtonal.org/music/
> -------------------------------------------------------[MMM info]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Vsyevolod <vsyevolod@...>

Alison,

I don't know exactly what you're looking for, though I built a
conduit marimba (53 ET, 2 1/2 octaves) similar to Kraig's Crib of
Brass. I used scaffolding nails and small diameter shock cord to
mount the tubes. The instrument moved to Boston with its owner many
years ago, though I have several high quality photos of it if this
would be of use to you. I could scan these photos and email them to
you.

The instrument was built back in 1983 and uses a Bonsanquet
style keyboard modified by Erv Wilson. 3/4" conduit from F3 to C6.
The mounting system allowed me to have all the rows on a diagonal
axis unlike Kraig's which are on a horizontal axis. Striking the
ends sounded almost as nice as striking in the center (not possible
on this instrument), and it too had a lean to it which allowed for
ease of access.

Hello to Kraig as well...

SVG

> Kraig Grady wrote:
>
> > Alison!
> > You might want to look at The Crib of Brass...

> Alison Monteith wrote:
>
> Yes I've looked at that picture many times and it is visually
appealing.
> Shame the instrument was destroyed. I'd need to see more detail to
> consider copying it. It looks easier than the three stands that I'm
> planning to make for my two and a bit octaves. Any diagrams in the
> Anaphorian archives perchance?

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

Hello Steven!
I remember one design of yours you showed me once with a grid of criss
crossing cord which i ended up using for my 72 JI tubulongs. I ended up
tying the places where they crossed and also a ring of elastic to hold it
also! THe actual idea worked really well , just wasn't happy with the metal
when it was all done.
Good to see you on this (these) list.

Vsyevolod wrote:

> Alison,
>
> I don't know exactly what you're looking for, though I built a
> conduit marimba (53 ET, 2 1/2 octaves) similar to Kraig's Crib of
> Brass. I used scaffolding nails and small diameter shock cord to
> mount the tubes. The instrument moved to Boston with its owner many
> years ago, though I have several high quality photos of it if this
> would be of use to you. I could scan these photos and email them to
> you.
>
> The instrument was built back in 1983 and uses a Bonsanquet
> style keyboard modified by Erv Wilson. 3/4" conduit from F3 to C6.
> The mounting system allowed me to have all the rows on a diagonal
> axis unlike Kraig's which are on a horizontal axis. Striking the
> ends sounded almost as nice as striking in the center (not possible
> on this instrument), and it too had a lean to it which allowed for
> ease of access.
>
> Hello to Kraig as well...
>
> SVG
>
> > Kraig Grady wrote:
> >
> > > Alison!
> > > You might want to look at The Crib of Brass...
>
> > Alison Monteith wrote:
> >
> > Yes I've looked at that picture many times and it is visually
> appealing.
> > Shame the instrument was destroyed. I'd need to see more detail to
> > consider copying it. It looks easier than the three stands that I'm
> > planning to make for my two and a bit octaves. Any diagrams in the
> > Anaphorian archives perchance?
>
>
> [MMM info]-------------------------------------------------------
> More music files from MMM are at http://www.microtonal.org/music/
> -------------------------------------------------------[MMM info]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

🔗Alison Monteith <alison.monteith3@...>

Vsyevolod wrote:

>
> Alison,
>
> I don't know exactly what you're looking for, though I built a
> conduit marimba (53 ET, 2 1/2 octaves) similar to Kraig's Crib of
> Brass. I used scaffolding nails and small diameter shock cord to
> mount the tubes. The instrument moved to Boston with its owner many
> years ago, though I have several high quality photos of it if this
> would be of use to you. I could scan these photos and email them to
> you.

I'd be interested to see your photos before I decide on a mounting
system. I don't want to be drilling any more holes to mount the tubes as
I've discovered that large acoustic tiles (egg-box shaped) cut into
strips make perfect mountings. I'm not sure how much of a tilt this
would allow. I suppose I could tie the tubes at the nodes with thin
wire.

> The instrument was built back in 1983 and uses a Bonsanquet
> style keyboard modified by Erv Wilson. 3/4" conduit from F3 to C6.
> The mounting system allowed me to have all the rows on a diagonal
> axis unlike Kraig's which are on a horizontal axis. Striking the
> ends sounded almost as nice as striking in the center (not possible
> on this instrument), and it too had a lean to it which allowed for
> ease of access.
>
> Hello to Kraig as well...
>
> SVG
>

Kind Regards

🔗Alison Monteith <alison.monteith3@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

Alison!
I sent the longest time without drilling the nodes at all. Opting for a
quick adjustment every few hours of play!

Alison Monteith wrote:

> George Zelenz wrote:
>
> > Alison,
> >
> > I have found that hitting the ends of tubes is most effective below
> > middle
> > C. Actually preferable. Above middle C, it's definitely better to hit
> > in the
> > middle. This is with aluminum anyway.
> >
> > Remember to be careful with any holes you drill. Nodes please!
> >
> > Good luck!
> >
> > BTW, what key are you tuning it in?
> >
> > George
> >
> >
> >
> > I've put 1.3.5 at A440, which is slightly different from Kraig who set
> > A at 1.5.11. Kraig BTW was most helpful to me. I'd have followed his
> > system exactly but had twenty or so tubes already cut. And don't talk
> > to me about drrrrrilling......... : - )
>
> Kind Regards
>
>
> [MMM info]-------------------------------------------------------
> More music files from MMM are at http://www.microtonal.org/music/
> -------------------------------------------------------[MMM info]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

🔗Vsyevolod <vsyevolod@...>

Alison,

You can find these photos at:

http://home.attbi.com/~mpreve2/53-ET_fullsize.jpg

http://home.attbi.com/~mpreve2/53-ET_detail.jpg

This instrument does involve drilling holes in the frame for the
scaffolding nails to hold the shock cord in place. Even if this
doesn't work for you, perhaps the photos will suggest a different
way...

I wrote an article many years ago for Experimental Musical
Instruments on various suspension systems for these instruments.
I'll have to see if I can dig it out.

All the best,

SVG

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., Alison Monteith <alison.monteith3@w...>
wrote:

> I'd be interested to see your photos before I decide on a mounting
> system. I don't want to be drilling any more holes to mount the
tubes as
> I've discovered that large acoustic tiles (egg-box shaped) cut into
> strips make perfect mountings. I'm not sure how much of a tilt this
> would allow. I suppose I could tie the tubes at the nodes with thin
> wire.

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

SVG!
Very Very nice!

Vsyevolod wrote:

> Alison,
>
> You can find these photos at:
>
> http://home.attbi.com/~mpreve2/53-ET_fullsize.jpg
>
> http://home.attbi.com/~mpreve2/53-ET_detail.jpg
>
> This instrument does involve drilling holes in the frame for the
> scaffolding nails to hold the shock cord in place. Even if this
> doesn't work for you, perhaps the photos will suggest a different
> way...
>
> I wrote an article many years ago for Experimental Musical
> Instruments on various suspension systems for these instruments.
> I'll have to see if I can dig it out.
>
> All the best,
>
> SVG
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., Alison Monteith <alison.monteith3@w...>
> wrote:
>
> > I'd be interested to see your photos before I decide on a mounting
> > system. I don't want to be drilling any more holes to mount the
> tubes as
> > I've discovered that large acoustic tiles (egg-box shaped) cut into
> > strips make perfect mountings. I'm not sure how much of a tilt this
> > would allow. I suppose I could tie the tubes at the nodes with thin
> > wire.
>
>
> [MMM info]-------------------------------------------------------
> More music files from MMM are at http://www.microtonal.org/music/
> -------------------------------------------------------[MMM info]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

🔗jpehrson2 <jpehrson@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "Vsyevolod" <vsyevolod@y...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_2810.html#2861

>
> Alison,
>
> You can find these photos at:
>
> http://home.attbi.com/~mpreve2/53-ET_fullsize.jpg
>
> http://home.attbi.com/~mpreve2/53-ET_detail.jpg
>
> This instrument does involve drilling holes in the frame for
the
> scaffolding nails to hold the shock cord in place. Even if this
> doesn't work for you, perhaps the photos will suggest a different
> way...
>
> I wrote an article many years ago for Experimental Musical
> Instruments on various suspension systems for these instruments.
> I'll have to see if I can dig it out.
>
> All the best,
>
> SVG
>
>
>
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., Alison Monteith <alison.monteith3@w...>
> wrote:
>
> > I'd be interested to see your photos before I decide on a mounting
> > system. I don't want to be drilling any more holes to mount the
> tubes as
> > I've discovered that large acoustic tiles (egg-box shaped) cut
into
> > strips make perfect mountings. I'm not sure how much of a tilt
this
> > would allow. I suppose I could tie the tubes at the nodes with
thin
> > wire.

***That's quite an instrument! Congrats!

J. Pehrson

🔗David Beardsley <db@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

Hello David!
Very Very nice your show the other night. Also really love your blurry
day CD alot!!!

David Beardsley wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kraig Grady" <kraiggrady@...>
>
> > SVG!
> > Very Very nice!
>
> Wow from here. Let's hear it for eye hand cordination!
> I don't pay real close atention to this list (I should!), are there any
> sound files on line?
>
> * David Beardsley
> * http://biink.com
> * http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley
>
>
> [MMM info]-------------------------------------------------------
> More music files from MMM are at http://www.microtonal.org/music/
> -------------------------------------------------------[MMM info]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

🔗David Beardsley <db@...>

🔗Alison Monteith <alison.monteith3@...>

Vsyevolod wrote:

What a beautiful design Looks possible for me - what kind of wire are
you using around the nodes? This is helpful because I can see the
detail. Don't patent it yet though Many thanks.

Regards

🔗Vsyevolod <vsyevolod@...>

It sounds like a fuller description is in order here.

The frame consists of double headed nails predrilled into a
wooden rack. The nails, otherwise known as duplex nails or
scaffolding nails, have two heads on them and are readily available
at any hardware store. I then wrapped two lengths of 1/8" shock cord
around each nail head in a way that would allow the conduit to be
inserted and held without the cord popping off the head of the nail.
Shock cord is nothing more than a thin bungee cord, available at
mountaineering stores and even some hardware stores.

Finding a way to wrap the cord around the nail heads securely
was a bit of a trick. Much of this was detailed in the March 1995
issue of Experimental Musical Instruments, volume 10 #3. Several
other writers offered their unique views of conduit marimbas in this
issue as well as the previous issue volume 10 #2 (December 1994).

The cord then goes through a hole in the frame wall and wraps
around the outside of the frame in a narrow trough that was cut into
the wood.

The rear frame rests in the two "h" legs, and along the top
edge. The front frame also rests in the two "h" legs and yet the
only thing holding it upright is the tubes themselves (the friction
that comes from the tubes being held firmly in the shock cord
mounting system). One of the added benefits of this mounting system,
is that the tubes do not rotate while being played, something that
plagues a conduit marimba that rests on foam. Since the pitch of a
bar is different when struck upon the seam (or directly opposite the
seam) as opposed to 90 degrees off the seam, consistency in tuning
can be maintained.

I remember tuning this whole instrument by ear. This was in the
early days before I had a strobe tuner. I went down to the local
music store where they had a tuner, and I brought a synthesizer and a
tape deck. I tuned an oscillator to each of the 53 tones in each
octave and recorded that onto a cassette tape. I then took it back
to the shop and tuned each bar painstakingly to the tape. Don't try
this one at home kids...

I also remember how much I wanted to build this instrument. It
was a commissioned piece and neither of us had any idea how elaborate
the frame would become. I so wanted to do it "the right way" that I
offered my services for a mere $3/hour. Still it ended up costing
quite a bit.

Since that time, the instrument has moved to Boston and I am no
longer in contact with the owner. I do have a few recordings on
cassette tape, which someone else asked about. I have no idea how to
transfer an audio signal to a wav. file or whatever I'd need to
upload something to the internet. Perhaps someone would be kind
enough to run me through this process? Perhaps offlist...

SVG

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., Alison Monteith <alison.monteith3@w...>
wrote:
> >
> > You can find these photos at:
> >
> > http://home.attbi.com/~mpreve2/53-ET_fullsize.jpg
> >
> > http://home.attbi.com/~mpreve2/53-ET_detail.jpg

>
> What a beautiful design Looks possible for me - what kind of wire
are
> you using around the nodes? This is helpful because I can see the
> detail. Don't patent it yet though Many thanks.
>
> Regards

🔗Jonathan M. Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

Stephen,

First off, thanks for the detailed description on the instrument. I've used the double-headed nails before, but often worried about, with stretching, the cords falling off the lower 'head'. But looks like it worked for you!

I swear I've seen pictures of this instrument before - where do you think that might have been, and can you share who the 'owner' was/is?

>I tuned an oscillator to each of the 53 tones in each octave and recorded >that onto a cassette tape. I then took it back to the shop and tuned each >bar painstakingly to the tape. Don't try this one at home kids...

Ouch. Well, I bet you learned in the process anyway...

>Since that time, the instrument has moved to Boston and I am no longer in >contact with the owner. I do have a few recordings on cassette tape, >which someone else asked about. I have no idea how to transfer an audio >signal to a wav. file or whatever I'd need to upload something to the >internet. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to run me through this >process? Perhaps offlist...

We've done this before, and I actually put together a little package of very simple, freeware apps (for both Mac and PC) that can do just this. I'll get it together and post the info/stuff in the next day or so.

Cheers,
Jon

`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
Real Life: Orchestral Percussionist
Web Life: "Corporeal Meadows" - about Harry Partch
http://www.corporeal.com/
NOTE:
If your reply bounces, try --> jonszanto@...

🔗justintonation <JUSTINTONATION@...>

🔗Jonathan M. Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

Justin,

{you wrote...}
>This is a very interesting arrangement of bars. do you hit the bars
>in between the nodes or on the section from the node out the
>edge of the bar ? If it is the former it looks like it would be hard or
>impossible to to play.

I do believe the ends are intended to be struck, not the middle. Most vibrating 'bar' instruments will sound well - if differently - when struck on the very ends of the 'bars'. On marimbas, where an arch is cut in the wood, there is more fundamental and less overtones when struck in the middle, between the nodes, but xylophone bars, which are thicker and have less arch, have less of a timbral difference between middle and end of bar. And conduits respond fairly well on the ends of the bars.

Cheers,
Jon

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

J&J!
I have found that when mounting tubes, i have had to have the slope at at
least 45 degrees in order to get good access to striking them. Once i was able
to get bars , I had to abandon tubes due to their lesser volume. Although now
i can see the advantage to have an instrument that is always in the background
playing more elaborate passages, but i might be out of room :-)
But Jon, I know their is a guy who makes wind chimes down in your neck of
the woods-Stanard? who i noticed he had some large diameter tubes that looked
like could be used for aluminum vertical chimes. do you have any info on him?
or on the metal spec.
or maybe you might know what the professional brass alloy is

"Jonathan M. Szanto" wrote:

> Justin,
>
> {you wrote...}
> >This is a very interesting arrangement of bars. do you hit the bars
> >in between the nodes or on the section from the node out the
> >edge of the bar ? If it is the former it looks like it would be hard or
> >impossible to to play.
>
> I do believe the ends are intended to be struck, not the middle. Most
> vibrating 'bar' instruments will sound well - if differently - when struck
> on the very ends of the 'bars'. On marimbas, where an arch is cut in the
> wood, there is more fundamental and less overtones when struck in the
> middle, between the nodes, but xylophone bars, which are thicker and have
> less arch, have less of a timbral difference between middle and end of bar.
> And conduits respond fairly well on the ends of the bars.
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

🔗Jonathan M. Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

KG,

{you wrote...}
>Once i was able to get bars , I had to abandon tubes due to their lesser >volume.

Yes! I think people should be aware of this: unresonated conduit tubes (i.e. if you don't put resonators under them) do not have a big, carrying tone. Suitable for chamber-musics, etc. One other thing I've found frustrating (at times) with them is a lack of a large dynamic range as well as limited degrees of timbral variation (of course, good composers can work with these limitations, but one should know of them before building). Also, bear in mind that large numbers of tubes, if they aren't constructed so that one may actively hand-damp (a la gamelan technique), you will get a ringing haze of tones; again, in certain circumstances that can be a _good_ thing, but I've also been frustrated by it as a listener (Dean Drummond's Zoomoozaphone comes to mind...).

>But Jon, I know their is a guy who makes wind chimes down in your neck of
>the woods-Stanard?

Nope!

>who i noticed he had some large diameter tubes that looked like could be >used for aluminum vertical chimes. do you have any info on him? or on the >metal spec. or maybe you might know what the professional brass alloy is

I'll see if I can't find out some info in the future on this, Kraig. It will have to be a "back-burner" project, though. In fact, it will have to go on the newly installed ultra-back burner, 479 rows behind the front burner (I now have an extremely large stove...).

Cheers,
Jon

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Vsyevolod <vsyevolod@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "justintonation" <JUSTINTONATION@H...>
wrote:
> This is a very interesting arrangement of bars. do you hit the bars
> in between the nodes or on the section from the node out the
> edge of the bar ? If it is the former it looks like it would be
> hard or impossible to to play.

The instrument is designed to be struck on the ends. Yes, it is
close to impossible to reach the centers of the notes.

>
>
> I like the Wilson/Bosanquet arrangement but had always thought
> that it would have to be done with the bars laid flat on a surface.
>

When you're talking 53 notes per octave in conduit, about the
only way you can reach them all is to mount them in 3D. This
instrument spanned 2 1/2 octaves.

--- In MakeMicroMusic..., Jon wrote:

>I do believe the ends are intended to be struck, not the middle.
>Most vibrating 'bar' instruments will sound well - if differently -
>when struck on the very ends of the 'bars'. On marimbas, where an
>arch is cut in the wood, there is more fundamental and less
>overtones when struck in the middle, between the nodes, but
>xylophone bars, which are thicker and have less arch, have less of a
>timbral difference between middle and end of bar. And conduits
>respond fairly well on the ends of the bars.

Most vibrating instruments (pitched and struck) have a
compromised tone (not sounding at its fullest) when the notes are
struck on the ends as opposed to the middle. The ideal striking
point is the anitinode, which the ends come just a bit short of
reaching. Fortunately, conduit does respond well to being struck on
the ends, though less so in the lower regions. Good thing too, as
the alternatives don't seem very appealing...

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., Kraig wrote:

>I have found that when mounting tubes, i have had to have the slope
>at least 45 degrees in order to get good access to striking them.
>Once i was able to get bars , I had to abandon tubes due to their
>lesser volume. Although now I can see the advantage to have an
>instrument that is always in the background playing more elaborate
>passages, but i might be out of room :-)

When I built this instrument, I finished the two structural
frame parts before deciding on the actual slant. I set it up on some
chairs and played it at a variety of angles and found one that worked
well for me. I don't remember if it was a 10 or 15 degree angle,
nothing like the 45 degree that Kraig recommends. I found it to be
very accessable as it turned out. Playing rapid passages
and "finding my way around on it" became second nature in a short
amount of time. If I had to do it all again, I wouldn't change a
thing. (Well maybe one or two things, see the next section.)

Then Jon again:
>Yes! I think people should be aware of this: unresonated conduit
>tubes (i.e. if you don't put resonators under them) do not have a
>big, carrying tone. Suitable for chamber-musics, etc.

Resonators help somewhat. Though since conduit does not have
much of a surface with which to push air, especially since it is
round and pushes air without the same focus that a vibraphone bar
might, resonators help only a little. I have found that a more
dramatic increase in amplitude (and much simpler to build) is found
by installing a reflective surface about two inches away from the
tubes. My first conduit marimba was built a la Erv, with foam rubber
cut to accept the tubes and then placed on a sheet of plywood. When
I later built a frame for the tubes from 2x2's and then put it back
on the plywood, the sound more than doubled in amplitude.

Of course you could always build reflectors and resonators on
the same instrument. The 53 tone instrument only has enough room for
the reflective surfaces to be built in. On smaller conduit marimbas
I have done both. It seems to make the largest difference in the low
end, below middle C. Otherwise I'd just stick to reflectors.

SVG

🔗Jonathan M. Szanto <JSZANTO@...>

Stephen,

First off, it should be noted that any instrument as beautifully constructed as yours indicates a depth of study and patience with the knowledge needed to craft such a beast, so I defer to your working with conduit in the main!

{you wrote...}
>Most vibrating instruments (pitched and struck) have a compromised tone >(not sounding at its fullest) when the notes are struck on the ends as >opposed to the middle.

Yep.

>The ideal striking point is the anitinode, which the ends come just a bit >short of
>reaching.

Is this a typo, and it should read "antinode"? I haven't heard of the term (in either spelling), and the concept of 'mystery points' of striking are fascinating. Is there a source on this somewhere?

>Fortunately, conduit does respond well to being struck on the ends, though >less so in the lower regions.

Good to know; how low in pitch can conduit instruments be effective?

As to reflectors/resonators, it may also have to do with both the range of the instrument (the higher the pitch, the less apparent help the resonator gives), as well as the tubes being open on both ends - solid bars are definitely helped by resonators.

Again, thanks for all your background on this. I've spent my life behind bars (a phrase borrowed from Emil Richards) and mallet instruments are where I feel most at home. It's good to hear other ideas/viewpoints/insights as well...

Cheers,
Jon