Re: [MMM] Re: Holy Solenoids Batman!

Hello Graham!
Now this seems like the right hand isn't talking to the left
( A SCANNER DARKLY?)
The dutch school already had two 31 tone trumpets with four valves. I know
they were stolen, but plans must exist somewhere.
hmmm where is the loop!

graham@... wrote:

>
>
> What they have now is two modified trumpets with an extra valve to give
> either 24- or 19- equal. That valve is activated by a solenoid, because
> it was thought that the performer's little finger wouldn't be strong
> enough to control a valve directly or something like that. They expect to
> have a complete brass quintet by the middle of this year.
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

hello Graham!
I know you aren't in charge of any of this but Don Ellis played a quarter
tone trumpet twenty years ago, miles had one too but didn't use it much.
There is also an Egyptian/Syrian trumpeter with one not to mention a
recording i have seen (can't remember label at the moment). Such things make
me suspicious as to exactly what is going on over there. Sound like they need
to expand their loop

graham@... wrote:

> What they have now is two modified trumpets with an extra valve to give
> either 24- or 19- equal. That valve is activated by a solenoid, because
> it was thought that the performer's little finger wouldn't be strong
> enough to control a valve directly or something like that. They expect to
> have a complete brass quintet by the middle of this year.

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
> hello Graham!
> I know you aren't in charge of any of this but Don Ellis played
a quarter
> tone trumpet twenty years ago, miles had one too but didn't use it
much.
> There is also an Egyptian/Syrian trumpeter with one not to mention
a
> recording i have seen (can't remember label at the moment). Such
things make
> me suspicious as to exactly what is going on over there. Sound like
they need
> to expand their loop

don't worry kraig, patrick is fully aware of don ellis. are you aware
of the extent and depth of the research he underwent, visiting
hundreds of microtonalists around the world, etc., etc.? i think you
need to look a little deeper than graham's (understandably) offhand
descriptions.

Paul!
As i said, Patrick came by here so i am quite aware of his work. I am on
his list. That doesn't change the fact of my two posts. Things have already
been invented and worked, It seem you are more interesting in defending
Patrick (who i have no issue with ) than with dealing with the facts that
the work has already been done.
The idea we need some electronic device to have four valves is not a
good one, something to break. Maybe you should look deeper into the french
horn and you will notice they have been operating another valve for quite a
period of time. Or have you ever seen one?

paulerlich wrote:

> -
>
> don't worry kraig, patrick is fully aware of don ellis. are you aware
> of the extent and depth of the research he underwent, visiting
> hundreds of microtonalists around the world, etc., etc.? i think you
> need to look a little deeper than graham's (understandably) offhand
> descriptions.
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
> Paul!
> As i said, Patrick came by here so i am quite aware of his
work. I am on
> his list. That doesn't change the fact of my two posts. Things have
already
> been invented and worked, It seem you are more interesting in
defending
> Patrick (who i have no issue with ) than with dealing with the
facts that
> the work has already been done.

dealing with . . . hmm, perhaps you should just forward your two
posts to patrick and i should stay the h**l out of this . .

Kraig:

> > I know you aren't in charge of any of this but Don Ellis played
> a quarter
> > tone trumpet twenty years ago, miles had one too but didn't use it
> much.
> > There is also an Egyptian/Syrian trumpeter with one not to mention
> a
> > recording i have seen (can't remember label at the moment). Such
> things make
> > me suspicious as to exactly what is going on over there. Sound like
> they need
> > to expand their loop

Is this Nassim Maalouf you mean? I did mention him over lunch that day at
LGU. I don't think Patrick was aware of him, but I didn't have the name
to hand then. I have one track on a Wire magazine CD, "taken from the
Club du Disque Arabe album The Secret Life of Arabia (AAA166)" Do you
know more?

Paul:

> don't worry kraig, patrick is fully aware of don ellis. are you aware
> of the extent and depth of the research he underwent, visiting
> hundreds of microtonalists around the world, etc., etc.? i think you
> need to look a little deeper than graham's (understandably) offhand
> descriptions.

Indeed, Patrick's gallery includes a picture of one Kraig Grady. I can
guarantee he's heard of Don Ellis, along with Julian Carillo, Alois Haba
and Martin Vogel. He also knows that Ellis's trumpet section was made and
designed by Larry Ramirez of Holton, who also designed the Holton
Firebird, a trumpet with the normal three valves and a trombone-like
slide.

Some more details from that handout:

The call for scores deadline is 29th March, so you all have plenty of
time. It's for trumpet with or without tape and percussion, no more than
3 minutes. You have to include a 10 pound check with the submission. For
more details contact ljones@...

There is in fact only one trumpet, which can play in either 12- or
19-equal, but not both at the same time. "The modifications ... have been
designed and carried out by David Cowie, with the assistance of Robert
Watson (Department of Electronics, University of Glamorgan) and Lewis
Jones (LGU). The trumpeter Stephen Altoft has also been involved in the
initial testing of the instrument and providing feedback to the makers."

"The purpose of the 4th valve is eventually to create instruments in
which, potentially, all the valves would be electronic (as in David
Cowie's /Solenoid Valve Action Tuba/). This opens up various future tuning
systems, new musical gestures arising from an enhanced interface, and
interfaces which will be helpful to players with arthritis or disability."

Graham

graham@... wrote:

> Is this Nassim Maalouf you mean? I did mention him over lunch that day at
> LGU. I don't think Patrick was aware of him, but I didn't have the name
> to hand then. I have one track on a Wire magazine CD, "taken from the
> Club du Disque Arabe album The Secret Life of Arabia (AAA166)" Do you
> know more?

I am sorry Graham i cannot remember but this sounds like it might be so. It
was used and i spent about 20 min listening to it and just couldn't get
myself to buy it. It wasn't very good as much as i searched through the
tracks. Boy did i want it to be good.

> Indeed, Patrick's gallery includes a picture of one Kraig Grady. I can
> guarantee he's heard of Don Ellis, along with Julian Carillo, Alois Haba
> and Martin Vogel. He also knows that Ellis's trumpet section was made and
> designed by Larry Ramirez of Holton, who also designed the Holton
> Firebird, a trumpet with the normal three valves and a trombone-like
> slide.

This seems very practical! I appreciate the info on the latter, do you know
if it was used and the response! With any slide one can put marks by
attaching a rod which goes over a place where the player can see. I saw John
Crawford (who worked with Partch on Delusion at least) with square organ
pipes with a slide put inside. he added a part that went extended over the
body so when you blew you could mark on the body where you wanted to slide
to, or whatever. It worked well, a talented man who you NY people have now!

I would be curious if there were problems with the 31 tone trumpets when they
had them!

Manuel?

> "The purpose of the 4th valve is eventually to create instruments in
> which, potentially, all the valves would be electronic (as in David
> Cowie's /Solenoid Valve Action Tuba/). This opens up various future tuning
> systems, new musical gestures arising from an enhanced interface, and
> interfaces which will be helpful to players with arthritis or disability."

I will have to remain skeptical as the mixture of spit and electronics seems
like a big problem :-). It also seems it is going to drive the price up

I have looked into this deeper than given credit for as i have worked both
with Trumpets and more recently French horn, retuning the valves to
different just ratios with good results.

It seems that Partch might have gain much by tuning his diamond to Bb or
a related key, thereby being able to incorporate brass instruments. On the
other hand the less western instruments the better his ensemble sounded

> Graham
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_2358.html#2402

> I have looked into this deeper than given credit for as i have
worked both
> with Trumpets and more recently French horn, retuning the valves to
> different just ratios with good results.
>

***Thanks, Kraig. Actually a *lot* can be done with Just and French
horn *without* even retuning anything. I worked quite a bit with
Belgian horn virtuoso Francis Orval, who enjoyed playing *all* the
just harmonics from each of the positions. In fact, he made a chart
of all of them that is included in Johnny Reinhard's _Pitch IV_.
There are *lots* of notes there that 12-tetters never use...

jp

On 2/27/02 11:09 PM, "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@...> wrote:

> There are *lots* of notes there that 12-tetters never use...

"Tetters". THAT's interesting.