Re: [MMM] some personal revelation experiences with "atonal" or other complexharmony in JI (Feldman & Messiaen)

Christopher,

interesting road your traversing there. Thanks for sharing.

Alas, your link said "nothing with that name here".

I'd like to hear your quartet, especially from a server that allows full
downloads like Columbia's.

If you want to show only the first chord or so, post it here. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Say hi to Repetto for me.
George

Hello Christopher!

Remember i thought this too about Feldman and glad someone else hears it
likewise.

I know
Monz likes Schoenberg
and
i like Monz
but i have to say
i don't like what Schoenberg did-
Which was to shift the writing of music to non acoustical based methods.
(Cage, his student, took this to its logical conclusion, i like him though).
The free improv world has adopted this stance also to its lack of any
interval integrity makes it to my ear, unlistenable and it sounds like
listening at least on an interval level ain't happening despite all the
rhetoric! new instruments are needed so to do such things isn't a constant
reference to the RFL (the Reinhard Fingering Library) which has made so much
possible, but we need to make the next step.
Why these math head don't do something USEFUL by designing some new holes
for winds and valves.

Christopher Bailey wrote:

> So now I'm thinking that the juiciness in the harmony of Feldman &
> Messiaen, from where I learned the sense of harmony that went into this
> string orc work, may also come from this
> desperate-attempt-to-find-higher-overtones-in-12-eq.

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:

> Why these math head don't do something USEFUL by designing some
new holes
> for winds and valves.

this is exactly what george and others have been up to! you've been
out of the loop for some time now, i suppose . . .

Ditto here. Well said Kraig!
gz

Kraig Grady wrote:

> Hello Christopher!
>
> Remember i thought this too about Feldman and glad someone else hears it
> likewise.
>
> I know
> Monz likes Schoenberg
> and
> i like Monz
> but i have to say
> i don't like what Schoenberg did-
> Which was to shift the writing of music to non acoustical based methods.
> (Cage, his student, took this to its logical conclusion, i like him though).
> The free improv world has adopted this stance also to its lack of any
> interval integrity makes it to my ear, unlistenable and it sounds like
> listening at least on an interval level ain't happening despite all the
> rhetoric! new instruments are needed so to do such things isn't a constant
> reference to the RFL (the Reinhard Fingering Library) which has made so much
> possible, but we need to make the next step.
> Why these math head don't do something USEFUL by designing some new holes
> for winds and valves.
>
> Christopher Bailey wrote:
>
> > So now I'm thinking that the juiciness in the harmony of Feldman &
> > Messiaen, from where I learned the sense of harmony that went into this
> > string orc work, may also come from this
> > desperate-attempt-to-find-higher-overtones-in-12-eq.
>
> -- Kraig Grady
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
> http://www.anaphoria.com
>
> The Wandering Medicine Show
> Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm
>
>
> [MMM info]-------------------------------------------------------
> More music files from MMM are at http://www.microtonal.org/music/
> -------------------------------------------------------[MMM info]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Paul!
Well i have my own loops -maybe they are out of mine :-)
I know patrick low but who is george and where. and i want results!

paulerlich wrote:

> --- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
>
> > Why these math head don't do something USEFUL by designing some
> new holes
> > for winds and valves.
>
> this is exactly what george and others have been up to! you've been
> out of the loop for some time now, i suppose . . .
>
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:

> I know patrick low but who is george and where.

george secor on the tuning list -- all thanks to you bringing his
1975 article to our attention!

Paul,

{you wrote...}
>--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
> > Why these math head don't do something USEFUL by designing some
>new holes
> > for winds and valves.
>
>this is exactly what george and others have been up to! you've been
>out of the loop for some time now, i suppose . . .

And Pat Ozzard-Low, right? Then there is the problem of actually getting the stuff built, marketed, and used...

Cheers,
Jon

Paul!
ah someone who i have known for years always in front of your face what
you are looking for! Well he is someone who could do it. Encouraging news!
you can pass that on! I know that Chris Forester was looking at this too.

paulerlich wrote:

> --- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
>
> > I know patrick low but who is george and where.
>
> george secor on the tuning list -- all thanks to you bringing his
> 1975 article to our attention!
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., George Zelenz <ploo@m...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_2246.html#2264

> Ditto here. Well said Kraig!
> gz
>

****I liked what Kraig said about Cage extending the "non acoustic"
aspects of Schoenberg's music to their logical absurdities.

I'd never heard that exact angle before.

Where do you get your material, Kraig?? You'd better *copyright* it!

jp

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "paulerlich" <paul@s...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_2246.html#2268

> --- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
>
> > I know patrick low but who is george and where.
>
> george secor on the tuning list -- all thanks to you bringing his
> 1975 article to our attention!

****Kraig maybe "missed out" on some of the stuff on the "Biggie"
list...

The link is here:

http://www.c21-orch-instrs.demon.co.uk/

And it's about developing xenharmonic versions of traditional
instruments.

Well, they *are* traditional instruments, but it sounds like Kraig
might be interested in it. I was *very.*

Maybe, though, if Kraig knows Patrick Low, he already has this link...

jp

Joe!
I have been reading "For the birds"
and he has talking about his split from schoenberg and once i brought up
this about arnie i realized it was true of JC.
hell with copyrights , i just want more shows :-)
In Cage's defense though we have to acknowledge that he allows
acoustical relationships also. I like his music - although a performance at
Cal arts over the last week of early instrumental works made me really
dislike motific manipulations, just as i was starting to get interested in
it again. A few days later i found myself enjoying Cartridge music. He some
how does the noise thing better than any one else. It appears he really
understood chance in a way that escapes most.

jpehrson2 wrote:

> --- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., George Zelenz <ploo@m...> wrote:
>
> /makemicromusic/topicId_2246.html#2264
>
> > Ditto here. Well said Kraig!
> > gz
> >
>
> ****I liked what Kraig said about Cage extending the "non acoustic"
> aspects of Schoenberg's music to their logical absurdities.
>
> I'd never heard that exact angle before.
>
> Where do you get your material, Kraig?? You'd better *copyright* it!
>
> jp
>
> [MMM info]-------------------------------------------------------
> More music files from MMM are at http://www.microtonal.org/music/
> -------------------------------------------------------[MMM info]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

jpehrson2 wrote:

> ****I liked what Kraig said about Cage extending the "non acoustic"
> aspects of Schoenberg's music to their logical absurdities.
>
> I'd never heard that exact angle before.
>
> Where do you get your material, Kraig?? You'd better *copyright* it!

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

Joe !
Thanks for this again. Patrick visited when he was passing through!
I am hopeful and wish him luck. It is one of the really hard problems that
takes alot of courage to face, cause it ain't easy!

jpehrson2 wrote:

>
>
> ****Kraig maybe "missed out" on some of the stuff on the "Biggie"
> list...
>
> The link is here:
>
> http://www.c21-orch-instrs.demon.co.uk/
>
> And it's about developing xenharmonic versions of traditional
> instruments.
>
> Well, they *are* traditional instruments, but it sounds like Kraig
> might be interested in it. I was *very.*
>
> Maybe, though, if Kraig knows Patrick Low, he already has this link...
>
> jp
>
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_2246.html#2308

Hi Kraig!

I met Cage a few times in my lifetime, but the very first time was
the best. I had been performing his _Amoires_ for Prepared Piano and
was only about 16 years old.

He was lecturing at a *very* small women's college in Michigan, near
where I grew up. He had to do lots of that at that time just to keep
going. I drove to the location.

I asked Cage to autograph my copy of the score.

He asked me, "How do you spell your name?"

And I spelled it: Joe P-E-H-R-S-O-N.

Now, coming from Michigan, I *always* expected people to get my name
wrong.

But, Cage wrote it exactly as I said it. I could have said a group
of random letters, and he would have written those down accurately.

I was amazed.

That's when it suddenly dawned on me how to LISTEN to
something... !

Joe

Joe,

{you wrote...}
>That's when it suddenly dawned on me how to LISTEN to something... !

Man, that was a great story! Thanks...

Cheers,
Jon

Joe!
Thanks for sharing that. very nice indeed!

I had been in the same room twice but exchanged no words

jpehrson2 wrote:

>
> Hi Kraig!
>
> I met Cage a few times in my lifetime, but the very first time was
> the best. I had been performing his _Amoires_ for Prepared Piano and
> was only about 16 years old.
>
> He was lecturing at a *very* small women's college in Michigan, near
> where I grew up. He had to do lots of that at that time just to keep
> going. I drove to the location.
>
> I asked Cage to autograph my copy of the score.
>
> He asked me, "How do you spell your name?"
>
> And I spelled it: Joe P-E-H-R-S-O-N.
>
> Now, coming from Michigan, I *always* expected people to get my name
> wrong.
>
> But, Cage wrote it exactly as I said it. I could have said a group
> of random letters, and he would have written those down accurately.
>
> I was amazed.
>
> That's when it suddenly dawned on me how to LISTEN to
> something... !
>
> Joe
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

David wrote:[

"I thought John Cage was the most influential composer of the 2nd half
of
the 20th century. ;)"

Rofwl...That was funny!

Influential he may have been, but a "composer" only by the widest and
most liberal definition of the term. A "con-poseur" beyond all doubt.

Exhibit A:

4' 33"

The earlier piano pieces , even before and after the prepared piano pieces shows what great melodic gift t he had.
He was extremely imaginative and very very skilled.
That he opted to become a"personality' is unfortunate

J.Smith wrote:
>
>
> David wrote:[
>
> "I thought John Cage was the most influential composer of the 2nd half
> of
> the 20th century. ;)"
>
> Rofwl...That was funny!
>
> Influential he may have been, but a "composer" only by the widest and
> most liberal definition of the term. A "con-poseur" beyond all doubt.
>
> Exhibit A:
>
> 4' 33"
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles