cd

Hi Jon,

It would be great if you were to do some of the cds.

As for the label, I have no particular ideas about that
at present - the one I did for Margo was a plain cd.

In fact, I can't quite figure out how to add the artist and
title information to a track either, though I expect I'll
figure it out. There's a tick box in Nero to do this but it auto
unselects itself whenever I try to write the cd for some reason.
Does anyone else by chance happen to use this software
and know why it does this?

My cd-writer does have a program for designing labels for cds
but I haven't tried it yet.

I'm very new to all this. But, it will be fun to do :-).

Robert

Hi there,

I wonder if this is a good time to consider a compilation cd of some
of the best music posted to this list?

Certainly there is enough for several cds.

Robert

Robert,

{you wrote...}
>I wonder if this is a good time to consider a compilation cd of some of >the best music posted to this list? Certainly there is enough for several cds.

Who better than the list moderator to get a bit sticky with this? :)

First off, some points:

1. You really think enough music has been posted for a compilation?
2. And enough of it was good enough?
3. Purpose of the CD: to share among the group, or to pass to friends/colleagues?

OK, I asked the questions. So here are some thoughts...

1 and 2: The list is just shy one day shy of being 7 months old, and I really think that we can afford a little more development time before pressing into solid matter a collection of the work. Some of the members are just getting started at putting gear/instruments together, etc.

3: Here is the main point - for what purpose? If it is to listen to each others music, the vast majority have already been able to do that by posting/downloading/streaming music. If we were to compile solely for the enjoyment of the (currently) 77 members, the hassle and expense of creating and making all those CDs negate what can be done online. But I lead to the second part, and I'd ask us all to think of this as well:

IF (and that's a Big If) we are talking about making a CD to share, send out, and pass around so others can hear the wonders of microtonal music, then I offer my humble opinion: we need to hone our musics a little more!

Why do I say this? I say it because that in the same breath I can say "I value, enjoy, and get a big-ass kick out of all the little piece-lettes, improvisations, and gee-gaws we've whipped together!", I don't equate them in the same breath with pieces that are carefully constructed, or are the best examples of a larger series of improvisations, and then are produced to ensure a maximum listening experience with attention to all the details a good recording - these days - needs.

If we pass around another sampler of partial works, works in progress, and noodling (albeit the most smile-producing, well-intentioned noodling), we will continue a tradition in the microtonal area of dabblers.

PLEASE (especially Robert, who brought up the subject!) - don't read into this that I wouldn't whole-heartedly support some kind of collaborative release from the group. And don't think I haven't had a great time listening to even the shortest (Margo? :) ) examples posted here. What I *am* asking is that before a mini-groundswell starts up, we each ask ourselves the purpose of the project, and the appropriateness of a selection that might be included, and the logistics involved in all of this. And also if there aren't other or alternative venues for something like this to be produced and distributed.

All that said, I'm for it if the time and reasons are right!

Looking forward to any responses on this,
Cheers,
Jon

Hi Jon (and everybody),

Interestingly, this topic is gone over pretty good in the recent TMA
interview with Neil Haverstick as well--Neil, if you remember,
produced the old Mills tuning list compilation CD.

To the extent that it would be the microtonal community pitching the
cause to the masses, then yeah, I think some quality control and a
striking presentation could indeed be helpful. I think Bart Hopkins
really did it right with all his EMI ventures. To my mind
microtonality has never been able to duplicate this sort of a
thing--this may have to do with the fact that new instruments are
intrinsically more interesting than new tunings?

The problem with a quality control of this sort is who decides--sure,
self regulation would be ideal, but it's still so subjective and tough
a call! My interests would be in striking music, as striking music
wipes away most any quibble about sound quality and refined
presentation. But again, what I find striking my neighbor would just
as likely grace his trash can with!

To maintain the standards you seem to be advocating, I think you
either need one person saying good, or I wish you'd try and contribute
something different. That's an evil job, but apparently somebody's got
to do it!

Or not. There's also the ever-open approach nicely advocated by Jacky
Ligon and personified in the old Sonic Options Network home taper
scene of which we both were a part--anything goes, your mileage may
vary!

The important thing there was the warm sense of community... make no
mistake, there was good music going on there, but by and large it was
the community and the cause over musicianship and quality control.

Where we stand seems to me very much predicated on what it is that we
want to accomplish... the sense of community is nice here, call it a
clique, whatever. Would we want to risk putting forward a project
where someone might have to be in the position of ruffling some
feathers and stepping on some toes... it's a tough call.

My personal view is no. I prefer mature, striking music to tuning
experimentations, and I'm very hard on myself when it comes to
musicianship and esthetics, but I also prefer a cool community to one
that might be compromised if someone's got to make these types of
decisions--especially when the eventual outcome may not be any
different either way!

In our community, as it presently stands, my vote goes to the approach
that's fueled by heartfelt enthusiasm over one that's emphasizes
quality control--with the hopefully obvious caveat that quality
control is not necessarily a bad thing.

take care,

--Dan Stearns

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@...>
To: <MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [MMM] cd

> Robert,
>
> {you wrote...}
> >I wonder if this is a good time to consider a compilation cd of
some of
> >the best music posted to this list? Certainly there is enough for
several cds.
>
> Who better than the list moderator to get a bit sticky with this? :)
>
> First off, some points:
>
> 1. You really think enough music has been posted for a compilation?
> 2. And enough of it was good enough?
> 3. Purpose of the CD: to share among the group, or to pass to
> friends/colleagues?
>
> OK, I asked the questions. So here are some thoughts...
>
> 1 and 2: The list is just shy one day shy of being 7 months old, and
I
> really think that we can afford a little more development time
before
> pressing into solid matter a collection of the work. Some of the
members
> are just getting started at putting gear/instruments together, etc.
>
> 3: Here is the main point - for what purpose? If it is to listen to
each
> others music, the vast majority have already been able to do that by
> posting/downloading/streaming music. If we were to compile solely
for the
> enjoyment of the (currently) 77 members, the hassle and expense of
creating
> and making all those CDs negate what can be done online. But I lead
to the
> second part, and I'd ask us all to think of this as well:
>
> IF (and that's a Big If) we are talking about making a CD to share,
send
> out, and pass around so others can hear the wonders of microtonal
music,
> then I offer my humble opinion: we need to hone our musics a little
more!
>
> Why do I say this? I say it because that in the same breath I can
say "I
> value, enjoy, and get a big-ass kick out of all the little
piece-lettes,
> improvisations, and gee-gaws we've whipped together!", I don't
equate them
> in the same breath with pieces that are carefully constructed, or
are the
> best examples of a larger series of improvisations, and then are
produced
> to ensure a maximum listening experience with attention to all the
details
> a good recording - these days - needs.
>
> If we pass around another sampler of partial works, works in
progress, and
> noodling (albeit the most smile-producing, well-intentioned
noodling), we
> will continue a tradition in the microtonal area of dabblers.
>
> PLEASE (especially Robert, who brought up the subject!) - don't read
into
> this that I wouldn't whole-heartedly support some kind of
collaborative
> release from the group. And don't think I haven't had a great time
> listening to even the shortest (Margo? :) ) examples posted here.
What I
> *am* asking is that before a mini-groundswell starts up, we each ask
> ourselves the purpose of the project, and the appropriateness of a
> selection that might be included, and the logistics involved in all
of
> this. And also if there aren't other or alternative venues for
something
> like this to be produced and distributed.
>
> All that said, I'm for it if the time and reasons are right!
>
> Looking forward to any responses on this,
> Cheers,
> Jon
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> Additional music files from MMM are at
http://www.microtonal.org/music/
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>

Dan,

Just the kind of mulling over I would hope for!

{you wrote...}
>Interestingly, this topic is gone over pretty good in the recent TMA >interview with Neil Haverstick as well--Neil, if you remember, produced >the old Mills tuning list compilation CD.

Yep.

>Where we stand seems to me very much predicated on what it is that we want >to accomplish...

Exactamente!

>the sense of community is nice here, call it a clique, whatever.

:)

>Would we want to risk putting forward a project where someone might have >to be in the position of ruffling some feathers and stepping on some >toes... it's a tough call.

Absolutely - the only feathers that should be ruffled on this list are the ones that ask to be ruffled. And is there *anything* more subjective, and therefore more difficult a task, then 'judging' someone else's music? I hope I was clear in my post that I have valued *all* the contributions to MMM, and my queries are simply saying: what is the end purpose of a collective recording? That answer will pretty much lead all else.

>I prefer mature, striking music to tuning experimentations, and I'm very >hard on myself when it comes to musicianship and esthetics

We are in lock-step agreement here, and *I* haven't released anything on the list that I consider worthy of making people switch to xenharmonics...

>...but I also prefer a cool community to one that might be compromised if >someone's got to make these types of decisions--especially when the >eventual outcome may not be any different either way!

Agreed. I would rather this list be so open to sharing of music *without* fear of judgement (except those critiques asked for) then it be the cutting-edge source of the future of music "As We Know It"(tm).

>In our community, as it presently stands, my vote goes to the approach >that's fueled by heartfelt enthusiasm over one that's emphasizes quality >control--with the hopefully obvious caveat that quality control is not >necessarily a bad thing.

Voted and noted.

Cheers,
Jon

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_2108.html#2130

> Dan,
>
> Just the kind of mulling over I would hope for!
>

***Why don't we just wait until somebody, like Margo, who can't
access the stuff online, *asks* for it?... then somebody can make a
CD for that person.

Otherwise, it's all here online, so what's the point?

UNLESS... there is some plan for *distributing* the work... and what
would that be, or who would do it?

And what would it *COST?*... always the big de-LIMITER as far as
commercial recordings are concerned... at least on *this* end!

JP

Jon!

First a belated Congrads on your enharmonic piece! It normally takes me
longer to get around loading this stuff up so my response is always after the
others but no less enthusiastic!

I hope i don't step on any toes, but i can say i have never enjoyed any
compilation (that involved more than a single artist). this in no way is any
judgment on the fine work it can include. I think in the future, when
confronted with such an object i will know better (after umpteenth years) that
i will be wise enough to listen only one piece at a time with hours or a day
in-between. I doubt most will do likewise though

I think what might work is two or three people on a single CD that had work
that complimented each other could work. The reason i say this is many World
music CDs are exactly this in more than one case. Also a longer sample of
someone's work helps to understand even a single one. i think the parallel
with a concert with 7 composers compared to 3 or 4. i think the latter always
work better.

It seems though that this could just be done between the individuals
without the lists involvement although it would be nice to see the list
inspire such a thing.

BTW i am not hinting for this myself, i think there are others whose work
would go together.

I can see such a project of some interest to the non-profit here. I know
situations by other non-profit groups where money is "donated" to a group
which uses that money to pay for something such as a CD or such and it becomes
paid for and the person donating the money has a tax deduction. Usually a
small fee is involved, but i have seen situations where possibly a number of
the CDs are given to the non profit to sale.

"Jonathan M. Szanto" wrote:

> Dan,
>
> Just the kind of mulling over I would hope for!
>
> {you wrote...}
> >Interestingly, this topic is gone over pretty good in the recent TMA
> >interview with Neil Haverstick as well--Neil, if you remember, produced
> >the old Mills tuning list compilation CD.
>
> Yep.
>
> >Where we stand seems to me very much predicated on what it is that we want
> >to accomplish...
>
> Exactamente!
>
> >the sense of community is nice here, call it a clique, whatever.
>
> :)
>
> >Would we want to risk putting forward a project where someone might have
> >to be in the position of ruffling some feathers and stepping on some
> >toes... it's a tough call.
>
> Absolutely - the only feathers that should be ruffled on this list are the
> ones that ask to be ruffled. And is there *anything* more subjective, and
> therefore more difficult a task, then 'judging' someone else's music? I
> hope I was clear in my post that I have valued *all* the contributions to
> MMM, and my queries are simply saying: what is the end purpose of a
> collective recording? That answer will pretty much lead all else.
>
> >I prefer mature, striking music to tuning experimentations, and I'm very
> >hard on myself when it comes to musicianship and esthetics
>
> We are in lock-step agreement here, and *I* haven't released anything on
> the list that I consider worthy of making people switch to xenharmonics...
>
> >...but I also prefer a cool community to one that might be compromised if
> >someone's got to make these types of decisions--especially when the
> >eventual outcome may not be any different either way!
>
> Agreed. I would rather this list be so open to sharing of music *without*
> fear of judgement (except those critiques asked for) then it be the
> cutting-edge source of the future of music "As We Know It"(tm).
>
> >In our community, as it presently stands, my vote goes to the approach
> >that's fueled by heartfelt enthusiasm over one that's emphasizes quality
> >control--with the hopefully obvious caveat that quality control is not
> >necessarily a bad thing.
>
> Voted and noted.
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>
>
> Additional music files from MMM are at http://www.microtonal.org/music/
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

Hi Kraig,

> I think what might work is two or three people on a single CD that had work
> that complimented each other could work. The reason i say this is many World
> music CDs are exactly this in more than one case. Also a longer sample of
> someone's work helps to understand even a single one. i think the parallel
> with a concert with 7 composers compared to 3 or 4. i think the latter always
> work better.

That sounds a nice idea to me. :-)

> It seems though that this could just be done between the individuals
> without the lists involvement although it would be nice to see the list
> inspire such a thing.
>
> BTW i am not hinting for this myself, i think there are others whose work
> would go together.

Yes, I can hear a lot of scope for this too.

Robert