Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup makemicromusic Signing in, Saying hello

Hi all, this is my first post in this group, so I thought I should
introduce myself and say hello.

I'm Jill Arroway. I've made some podcasts and stuff (unconnected to
microtonal music). I've composed music, but so far none microtonal. I
am a big fan of microtonal music, though, and would like (1) to give
it more exposure, and (2) to write some.

I can probably go a little way toward achieving (1) by employing
microtonal music within the audio drama I'm making, but of course to
do that, I've got to achieve (2) first, or else beg permission from
the creators of existing music to use it. There's no hurry on that
front though. The thing I'm making (it's called Dark Places) won't be
finished until well into 2009.

I'm very interested in (2), of course, but I have no idea how to go
about it. I have a Mac, and I have a PC, but no external equipment
(e.g. no synth). Both computers can play MIDI, and MIDI sounds way
better on the Mac. I guess if I had software that could write
microtonal MIDI files, then I could play them, but I don't have that
software, so anyway, any pointers would be helpful.

Finally, I want to thank all of you, because I have listened to some
of your previous work on Podcast 1024, and loved it, and because
you've got this great group together.

Jill

🔗robert thomas martin <robertthomasmartin@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jill Arroway" <saffron@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi all, this is my first post in this group, so I thought I should
> introduce myself and say hello.
>
> I'm Jill Arroway. I've made some podcasts and stuff (unconnected to
> microtonal music). I've composed music, but so far none microtonal.
I
> am a big fan of microtonal music, though, and would like (1) to give
> it more exposure, and (2) to write some.
>
> I can probably go a little way toward achieving (1) by employing
> microtonal music within the audio drama I'm making, but of course to
> do that, I've got to achieve (2) first, or else beg permission from
> the creators of existing music to use it. There's no hurry on that
> front though. The thing I'm making (it's called Dark Places) won't
be
> finished until well into 2009.
>
> I'm very interested in (2), of course, but I have no idea how to go
> about it. I have a Mac, and I have a PC, but no external equipment
> (e.g. no synth). Both computers can play MIDI, and MIDI sounds way
> better on the Mac. I guess if I had software that could write
> microtonal MIDI files, then I could play them, but I don't have that
> software, so anyway, any pointers would be helpful.
>
> Finally, I want to thank all of you, because I have listened to some
> of your previous work on Podcast 1024, and loved it, and because
> you've got this great group together.
>
> Jill
>
From Robert. Tonescape from Tonalsoft
Artwonk from Algorithmic Arts
Scala from ???
I know very little about these softwares but some of the members
here are experts with Tonescape and Scala which are apparently free.

🔗robert thomas martin <robertthomasmartin@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "robert thomas martin"
<robertthomasmartin@...> wrote:
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jill Arroway" <saffron@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all, this is my first post in this group, so I thought I should
> > introduce myself and say hello.
> >
> > I'm Jill Arroway. I've made some podcasts and stuff (unconnected
to
> > microtonal music). I've composed music, but so far none
microtonal.
> I
> > am a big fan of microtonal music, though, and would like (1) to
give
> > it more exposure, and (2) to write some.
> >
> > I can probably go a little way toward achieving (1) by employing
> > microtonal music within the audio drama I'm making, but of course
to
> > do that, I've got to achieve (2) first, or else beg permission
from
> > the creators of existing music to use it. There's no hurry on that
> > front though. The thing I'm making (it's called Dark Places)
won't
> be
> > finished until well into 2009.
> >
> > I'm very interested in (2), of course, but I have no idea how to
go
> > about it. I have a Mac, and I have a PC, but no external equipment
> > (e.g. no synth). Both computers can play MIDI, and MIDI sounds way
> > better on the Mac. I guess if I had software that could write
> > microtonal MIDI files, then I could play them, but I don't have
that
> > software, so anyway, any pointers would be helpful.
> >
> > Finally, I want to thank all of you, because I have listened to
some
> > of your previous work on Podcast 1024, and loved it, and because
> > you've got this great group together.
> >
> > Jill
> >
> From Robert. Tonescape from Tonalsoft
> Artwonk from Algorithmic Arts
> Scala from ???
> I know very little about these softwares but some of the members
> here are experts with Tonescape and Scala which are apparently
free.
>
More from Robert. Here is a link to softwares:

http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com/software.html

🔗Herman Miller <hmiller@...>

Jill Arroway wrote:
> Hi all, this is my first post in this group, so I thought I should
> introduce myself and say hello.
> > I'm Jill Arroway. I've made some podcasts and stuff (unconnected to
> microtonal music). I've composed music, but so far none microtonal. I
> am a big fan of microtonal music, though, and would like (1) to give
> it more exposure, and (2) to write some.
> > I can probably go a little way toward achieving (1) by employing
> microtonal music within the audio drama I'm making, but of course to
> do that, I've got to achieve (2) first, or else beg permission from
> the creators of existing music to use it. There's no hurry on that
> front though. The thing I'm making (it's called Dark Places) won't be
> finished until well into 2009.
> > I'm very interested in (2), of course, but I have no idea how to go
> about it. I have a Mac, and I have a PC, but no external equipment
> (e.g. no synth). Both computers can play MIDI, and MIDI sounds way
> better on the Mac. I guess if I had software that could write
> microtonal MIDI files, then I could play them, but I don't have that
> software, so anyway, any pointers would be helpful.
> > Finally, I want to thank all of you, because I have listened to some
> of your previous work on Podcast 1024, and loved it, and because
> you've got this great group together.
> > Jill

Scala (http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/scala/) can retune MIDI files by adding pitch bends in a separate track, which works pretty well for many situations, with some limitations (e.g. you can only have up to 16 different pitches at the same time due to the limitations of MIDI channels). It's also a good program for exploring the properties of different microtonal scales, comes in PC and Mac versions, and is free. Scala .scl files are close to being almost a de facto "standard" for representing tunings, and some synth software like rgc:audio z3ta+ (if you ever start looking into software synths) can even read .scl files directly. Scala has a number of different commands for listening to the notes of a scale in various combinations, so you can hear what a scale sounds like to get an idea of how you might use it in a composition. So that's what I'd recommend as a good place to start.

🔗Danny Wier <dawiertx@...>

Jill Arroway wrote:
> Hi all, this is my first post in this group, so I thought I should
> introduce myself and say hello.
>
> I'm Jill Arroway. I've made some podcasts and stuff (unconnected to
> microtonal music). I've composed music, but so far none microtonal. I
> am a big fan of microtonal music, though, and would like (1) to give
> it more exposure, and (2) to write some.
>
> I can probably go a little way toward achieving (1) by employing
> microtonal music within the audio drama I'm making, but of course to
> do that, I've got to achieve (2) first, or else beg permission from
> the creators of existing music to use it. There's no hurry on that
> front though. The thing I'm making (it's called Dark Places) won't be
> finished until well into 2009.
>
> I'm very interested in (2), of course, but I have no idea how to go
> about it. I have a Mac, and I have a PC, but no external equipment
> (e.g. no synth). Both computers can play MIDI, and MIDI sounds way
> better on the Mac. I guess if I had software that could write
> microtonal MIDI files, then I could play them, but I don't have that
> software, so anyway, any pointers would be helpful.
>
> Finally, I want to thank all of you, because I have listened to some
> of your previous work on Podcast 1024, and loved it, and because
> you've got this great group together.
>
> Jill

Hey, sorry for the late reply, but welcome to the list. I'm relatively new to microtonal composing myself, though I've written plenty of 12-tone music with occasional quarter tones (nothing published, however). My equipment is mostly bare-bones as well, except I do have a synth.

And I second Herman's recommendation of Scala. I run it in Linux myself, not so much to retune files nowadays as to do calculations and hear scales.

~D.

🔗Jill Arroway <saffron@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

Hi Jill!

>Is there a good online tutorial for it [Scala] around anywhere?
>For once Google failed me - all it gave me was a load of links
>about the Scala programming language!

Yes, that is becoming a problem. The microtonal Scala came first
by many years. No fair!

>Scala (the scale-making program) seems like it could be excellent,
>but it's not intuitively obvious how to use it.

I run it on Windows, so the rest will assume that. Should be
almost the same on other platforms.

The program window has 3 sections: menus, info display, and
command line interface strip (at the bottom). All or almost all
Scala features can be controlled via command line. And if you
execute a command from a menu, its commandline equiv. is silently
echoed on the strip. For example...

Start Scala, go to File > New > Equal Temperament, and accept the
default values of 12 tones and 2/1 "formal octave" (Scala lets
you use any interval as an interval of equivalence - e.g. the
famous Bohlen-Pierce scale uses 3/1).

Hit the "show" button on the toolbar (or do View > Show Scale).
You'll see 12-ET in the info display. Now place the cursor in
the commandline strip and hit up arrow. You'll see

"equaltemp 12 2/1"

"Show" is, I guess, so basic it isn't echoed. But this is the
command line equiv. for creating 12-ET. If you continue to
cycle with the arrow keys, you'll see all the stuff Scala runs
when it starts, which is defined in the Preferences.

You can play the scale via an onscreen keyborad by hitting
"Play" on the toolbar. Use Ctrl+click to select chords. Once
a chord is selected, you can move it up and down the keyboard
with left/right arrow keys.

To play via an external MIDI keyboard, hit "Relay" on
the toolbar.

To retune a MIDI file, go to Tools > Retune MIDI File.

Scala also has a sequencing language. You can create a musical
score of sorts using it (in a text file), and then transform
the sequence to a MIDI file. There are some of these .seq files
included in the Scala program directory, or you can transform
a MIDI file to a sequence to get started.

Scala will retune any synth or MIDI file with pitch bends, but
this method is somewhat limited. The preferred method is to
use the MIDI Tuning Standard, but it isn't much of a standard
so you have to tell Scala which synth you have. Your synth
may not be supported. :(

But these days, many software synths support Scala .scl files
directly. You just load the .scl tuning file directly into
the synth and play away. This is, from my point of view, the
best method. A partial list of supported synths is at:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/scala/scl_format.html
But I don't think it includes Pianoteq yet, so I always mention
it. It's the world's greatest synthesizer. Ever.
http://www.pianoteq.com

Here is a .scl file:

!
12-tone equal temperament
12
!
100.
200.
300. ! This is a comment
400.
500. ! Anything with a dot is cents.
600.
700.
800.
900.
1000.
1100.
2/1 ! Anything with a slash is a ratio.
!

I usually author and manage these with a text editor, but
obviously Scala can save them as well. The way it works is,
Scala *tiles* the scale up and down the 128 MIDI notes, with
the first line in the file (100 cents in this case) defining
the note immediately above MIDI middle C. This means that
the last line in the file is the formal octave.

Scala has a lot of arcane music theory functionality that you
may never need. But generally it's well-documented in
the Help. So don't fear the Help menu.

Questions?

-Carl

Bonus:

* When dealing with scales that are not equal temperaments,
one of the most useful features in Scala is
View > Show Interval Matrix.
This shows you the intervals of the scale (columns) as they
appear in each key of the scale (rows).

* You can change the key of the file by typing "key [number]"
in the commandline strip, where [number] is a degree of the
scale that you want to be the new C. So if you see a key
you want to be C in the Interval Matrix, just count down the
rows to get its degree number.

* You can undo the last change to the scale in memory by
typing "undo" on the commandline strip.

* If you have a scale in just intonation, you can quantize
it to any equal temperament by typing "quantize [et]".

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

The problem with scala i have heard from others is that one does not know where to start. Even going through scale after scale many tell me that it is often hard not to get lost in the plethora of intervals and possibilities. The ear gets overloaded. And the problem asking on these list is that we each have our biases which often has nothing to do with what the person might be inclined toward. I for instance could send them to David Doty's book, or Kyle Gann's site. but to me is what do they listen to and what brings them to microtonality in the first place. Perhaps being sent to a listening to samples might be good also. That said i really don't have a good answer.

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

Carl Lumma wrote:
>
> Hi Jill!
>
> >Is there a good online tutorial for it [Scala] around anywhere?
> >For once Google failed me - all it gave me was a load of links
> >about the Scala programming language!
>
> Yes, that is becoming a problem. The microtonal Scala came first
> by many years. No fair!
>
> >Scala (the scale-making program) seems like it could be excellent,
> >but it's not intuitively obvious how to use it.
>
> I run it on Windows, so the rest will assume that. Should be
> almost the same on other platforms.
>
> The program window has 3 sections: menus, info display, and
> command line interface strip (at the bottom). All or almost all
> Scala features can be controlled via command line. And if you
> execute a command from a menu, its commandline equiv. is silently
> echoed on the strip. For example...
>
> Start Scala, go to File > New > Equal Temperament, and accept the
> default values of 12 tones and 2/1 "formal octave" (Scala lets
> you use any interval as an interval of equivalence - e.g. the
> famous Bohlen-Pierce scale uses 3/1).
>
> Hit the "show" button on the toolbar (or do View > Show Scale).
> You'll see 12-ET in the info display. Now place the cursor in
> the commandline strip and hit up arrow. You'll see
>
> "equaltemp 12 2/1"
>
> "Show" is, I guess, so basic it isn't echoed. But this is the
> command line equiv. for creating 12-ET. If you continue to
> cycle with the arrow keys, you'll see all the stuff Scala runs
> when it starts, which is defined in the Preferences.
>
> You can play the scale via an onscreen keyborad by hitting
> "Play" on the toolbar. Use Ctrl+click to select chords. Once
> a chord is selected, you can move it up and down the keyboard
> with left/right arrow keys.
>
> To play via an external MIDI keyboard, hit "Relay" on
> the toolbar.
>
> To retune a MIDI file, go to Tools > Retune MIDI File.
>
> Scala also has a sequencing language. You can create a musical
> score of sorts using it (in a text file), and then transform
> the sequence to a MIDI file. There are some of these .seq files
> included in the Scala program directory, or you can transform
> a MIDI file to a sequence to get started.
>
> Scala will retune any synth or MIDI file with pitch bends, but
> this method is somewhat limited. The preferred method is to
> use the MIDI Tuning Standard, but it isn't much of a standard
> so you have to tell Scala which synth you have. Your synth
> may not be supported. :(
>
> But these days, many software synths support Scala .scl files
> directly. You just load the .scl tuning file directly into
> the synth and play away. This is, from my point of view, the
> best method. A partial list of supported synths is at:
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/scala/scl_format.html > <http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Ehuygensf/scala/scl_format.html>
> But I don't think it includes Pianoteq yet, so I always mention
> it. It's the world's greatest synthesizer. Ever.
> http://www.pianoteq.com <http://www.pianoteq.com>
>
> Here is a .scl file:
>
> !
> 12-tone equal temperament
> 12
> !
> 100.
> 200.
> 300. ! This is a comment
> 400.
> 500. ! Anything with a dot is cents.
> 600.
> 700.
> 800.
> 900.
> 1000.
> 1100.
> 2/1 ! Anything with a slash is a ratio.
> !
>
> I usually author and manage these with a text editor, but
> obviously Scala can save them as well. The way it works is,
> Scala *tiles* the scale up and down the 128 MIDI notes, with
> the first line in the file (100 cents in this case) defining
> the note immediately above MIDI middle C. This means that
> the last line in the file is the formal octave.
>
> Scala has a lot of arcane music theory functionality that you
> may never need. But generally it's well-documented in
> the Help. So don't fear the Help menu.
>
> Questions?
>
> -Carl
>
> Bonus:
>
> * When dealing with scales that are not equal temperaments,
> one of the most useful features in Scala is
> View > Show Interval Matrix.
> This shows you the intervals of the scale (columns) as they
> appear in each key of the scale (rows).
>
> * You can change the key of the file by typing "key [number]"
> in the commandline strip, where [number] is a degree of the
> scale that you want to be the new C. So if you see a key
> you want to be C in the Interval Matrix, just count down the
> rows to get its degree number.
>
> * You can undo the last change to the scale in memory by
> typing "undo" on the commandline strip.
>
> * If you have a scale in just intonation, you can quantize
> it to any equal temperament by typing "quantize [et]".
>
>

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

to give someone the option of too many scales can be as daunting as too few.
possibly i misinterpreted her problem with scala, easy to interpreted different to you

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

Carl Lumma wrote:
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com>, Kraig Grady > <kraiggrady@...> wrote:
> >
> > The problem with scala i have heard from others is that one
> > does not know where to start. Even going through scale after
> > scale many tell me that it is often hard not to get lost in
> > the plethora of intervals and possibilities. The ear gets
> > overloaded.
>
> I think that's a problem with the subject of alternative
> tunings, not with Scala!
>
> I do not recommend users install the Scala Scale Archive
> (separate download from Scala website). Instead, choose a
> scale or two in advance, and then use Scala as a free and
> easy way to hear it.
>
> > And the problem asking on these
> > list is that we each have our biases which often has nothing
> > to do with what the person might be inclined toward.
>
> Jill asked for help with Scala, not help with scales.
> Two different balls of wax.
>
> -Carl
>
>

Signing in, Saying hello

🔗Jill Arroway <saffron@...>

🔗robert thomas martin <robertthomasmartin@...>

🔗robert thomas martin <robertthomasmartin@...>

🔗Herman Miller <hmiller@...>

🔗Danny Wier <dawiertx@...>

🔗Jill Arroway <saffron@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Robin Perry <jinto83@...>

🔗Jill Arroway <saffron@...>

🔗Jill Arroway <saffron@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

🔗Jill Arroway <saffron@...>