Throat overtones

I wonder if any Mongolians have ever sung the blues?

According to:
http://www.sciam.com/1999/0999issue/0999levin.html
the throat singers of Tuva sing harmonies based on the natural harmonic
series. In his book 'Africa and the blues' Gerhard Kubik claims that the
roots of the blues scale are in the same series of partials (though he
found his source in West Africa).

The only place in Africa where throat singing is found is in the Western
Cape (I've heard it). Amongst the Xhosa people (within a few miles of
Nelson Mandela's birthplace) there can be found some throat singers. (The
xhosas, unlike other black South Africans, have an element of 'bushman'
blood and influence of 'bushman' culture)

My Question:
Am I right in thinking that overtone singing will inevitably produce
harmonics from the natural harmonic series or could it be possible that any
harmonic could be sung in this way?

Gerry Platt

P.S. Thank you jacky_ligon for the links.

Usefull links:

intro to the harmonic series:
http://debussy.music.ubc.ca/~courses/319/Notes/ComplexWaves.html

Exploring the Musical Brain:

Scientific American: Explore!: Exploring the MuŠ
http://www.sciam.com/explorations/2001/012201music/index.html

_____________________________________________________________
GERRY PLATT
gerry@...

phone: 020 8801 8191
mobile: 0775 956 2047

86 Dunloe Avenue,
London
N17 6LA

Designer/maker of fitted and free-standing bespoke furniture.
_____________________________________________________________
.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., Gerry Platt <gp@d...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_1781.html#1781

> My Question:
> Am I right in thinking that overtone singing will inevitably produce
> harmonics from the natural harmonic series or could it be possible
that any harmonic could be sung in this way?
>

Paul Erlich knows a lot about this and can answer it specifically
when he comes back on this list. Most of it *is* the natural
harmonic series, of course, but Paul was saying something about how
the singers somehow sing fundamentals that are in *utonal*
relationships or something of the kind.

Perhaps he can explain that... unless I got it wrong.

J. Pehrson

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:

> Paul Erlich knows a lot about this and can answer it specifically
> when he comes back on this list. Most of it *is* the natural
> harmonic series, of course, but Paul was saying something about how
> the singers somehow sing fundamentals that are in *utonal*
> relationships or something of the kind.
>
> Perhaps he can explain that... unless I got it wrong.
>
> J. Pehrson

Well, there are at least three main notes you have to consider at any
given moment in certain styles of throat singing. The note your vocal
cords would "naturally" produce in that position; the note that they
end up "buzzing" on; and the harmonic of that note which you shape
your mouth to emphasize. Call these a, b, and c. Well, b is always a
subharmonic of a, and c is always a harmonic of b.

Usually, b is an octave below a, and is held constant, while c is
allowed to vary among the harmonics of b. So throat singing usually
features a constant low drone and a harmonic-series scale over that
drone. But I suppose, if one has mastered the art of changing b, as
Jim Cole or someone apparently has, and one changed c independently
of that, one would have access to _all_ the simple just ratios
relative to the 1/1 of a. I haven't heard anyone do anything like
this, though. Finally, one could vary a as well, and then there's no
restriction on which pitches you can produce.

Now what was the question again? :)

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "paulerlich" <paul@s...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_1781.html#1790

> --- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
>
> > Paul Erlich knows a lot about this and can answer it specifically
> > when he comes back on this list. Most of it *is* the natural
> > harmonic series, of course, but Paul was saying something about
how
> > the singers somehow sing fundamentals that are in *utonal*
> > relationships or something of the kind.
> >
> > Perhaps he can explain that... unless I got it wrong.
> >
> > J. Pehrson
>
> Well, there are at least three main notes you have to consider at
any
> given moment in certain styles of throat singing. The note your
vocal
> cords would "naturally" produce in that position; the note that
they
> end up "buzzing" on; and the harmonic of that note which you shape
> your mouth to emphasize. Call these a, b, and c. Well, b is always
a
> subharmonic of a, and c is always a harmonic of b.
>
> Usually, b is an octave below a, and is held constant, while c is
> allowed to vary among the harmonics of b. So throat singing usually
> features a constant low drone and a harmonic-series scale over that
> drone. But I suppose, if one has mastered the art of changing b, as
> Jim Cole or someone apparently has, and one changed c independently
> of that, one would have access to _all_ the simple just ratios
> relative to the 1/1 of a. I haven't heard anyone do anything like
> this, though. Finally, one could vary a as well, and then there's
no
> restriction on which pitches you can produce.
>
> Now what was the question again? :)

Hi Paul!

I think you answered this one! I wasn't entire clear that we were
speaking of "overtones of an undertone" so to speak for throat
singing...

thanks!

JP