Re: [MMM] The Charm of Ives

Hi Joe,

I disagree, I think Ives knew just what he'd done better than anyone
else. He was just too damn yankee (and a few other things as well) to
admit it in the more familiar ways that artists often do.

I see a lot of his self depreciating banter as a healthy way to keep
things in check, and it's really just a reflection of his temperament
and personality (rather than any insecurity or inferiority). However,
I do believe he essentially thought that everybody had as much poetry
and music in their spirit as he did... that he wasn't special in that
way. How refreshing.

--Dan Stearns

----- Original Message -----
From: "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@...>
To: <MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 12:24 PM
Subject: [MMM] The Charm of Ives

> I was reading over Ives famous "Postface to 114 Songs" from _Essays
> Before a Sonata_ and I am convinced again that Ives had *absolutely*
> no idea of his own worth, nor did he care.
>
> Not only did he view himself as truely an "amateur" in probably the
> most deprecating sense of the term, but he seemed to feel that *any*
> man had as much poetry and music in his spirit as *he* had...the
> ultimate artistic democracy.
>
> Of course, *that* part, the "artistic leveling" was totally wrong...
> Ives was surely "special..."
>
> However, isn't it refreshing, or even "charming" to find a genius
> with *that* attitude as contrasted with self-proclaimed "geniuses"
> like Schoenberg or Boulez?
>
> The latter two *may* actually *be* geniuses (or they probably
> wouldn't have gotten where they are) but how much more refreshing to
> encounter a true talent who doesn't even knows he has it!
>
> JP
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "D.Stearns" <STEARNS@C...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_1675.html#1675

> Hi Joe,
>
> I disagree, I think Ives knew just what he'd done better than anyone
> else. He was just too damn yankee (and a few other things as well)
to
> admit it in the more familiar ways that artists often do.
>
> I see a lot of his self depreciating banter as a healthy way to keep
> things in check, and it's really just a reflection of his
temperament
> >

Hi Dan!

Thanks for your comment. Well... maybe his "self-appraisal"
went "back an forth..." Dunno. Maybe we should save all this stuff
up and e-mail Swafford one of these days!

JP

Joe,

I think we all have our ups and downs, our euphorias and doubts. I
know there's days where I can hear my own stuff as the best thing I've
ever heard or an irreparable shortcoming depending on my mood and
whatever else makes these things happen.

In Ives' case it's really hard for me to envision any scenario besides
resolute inner confidence that would have someone picking up the
pieces and reaching further still after some of the brutal indignities
and slights he endured regarding his music.

take care,

--Dan Stearns

----- Original Message -----
From: "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@...>
To: <MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: [MMM] The Charm of Ives

> --- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "D.Stearns" <STEARNS@C...> wrote:
>
> /makemicromusic/topicId_1675.html#1675
>
> > Hi Joe,
> >
> > I disagree, I think Ives knew just what he'd done better than
anyone
> > else. He was just too damn yankee (and a few other things as well)
> to
> > admit it in the more familiar ways that artists often do.
> >
> > I see a lot of his self depreciating banter as a healthy way to
keep
> > things in check, and it's really just a reflection of his
> temperament
> > >
>
> Hi Dan!
>
> Thanks for your comment. Well... maybe his "self-appraisal"
> went "back an forth..." Dunno. Maybe we should save all this stuff
> up and e-mail Swafford one of these days!
>
> JP
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "D.Stearns" <STEARNS@C...> wrote:

/makemicromusic/topicId_1675.html#1690

> Joe,
>
> I think we all have our ups and downs, our euphorias and doubts. I
> know there's days where I can hear my own stuff as the best thing
I've
> ever heard or an irreparable shortcoming depending on my mood and
> whatever else makes these things happen.
>
> In Ives' case it's really hard for me to envision any scenario
besides
> resolute inner confidence that would have someone picking up the
> pieces and reaching further still after some of the brutal
indignities
> and slights he endured regarding his music.
>
> take care,
>
> --Dan Stearns
>

Hi Dan!

I think you are *absolutely* right in the overall. However, I guess
I was just mentioning that I could read a kind of "self doubt" in the
Postface to the 114 Songs that I mentioned.

Now, whether he really was feeling that way at the time he wrote that
(which I posit) or he was doing it for "effect" (as *you* suggest) is
something of conjecture, I believe...

best,

JP