Hanson Comma Pump

I have no comment and could not care less if this is "functional" or
not. I was just going for something that sounds "good." Petr's stuff
sounds "good" and I wanted to make something that sounded "good" too.

http://soundcloud.com/mikebattagliamusic/hanson-comma-pump

-Mike

PS - Thanks to Graham for hooking it up with a render of this,
although I ended up having to redo it anyway because I screwed up in
my initial description of the chord progression.

-Mike

On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:48 AM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
> I have no comment and could not care less if this is "functional" or
> not. I was just going for something that sounds "good." Petr's stuff
> sounds "good" and I wanted to make something that sounded "good" too.
>
> http://soundcloud.com/mikebattagliamusic/hanson-comma-pump
>
> -Mike
>

One last one for the evening, and it's a Blackwood pump -

http://soundcloud.com/mikebattagliamusic/comma-pump-in-blackwood

This one requires Blackwood[15] to do.

-Mike

On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 4:27 AM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
> PS - Thanks to Graham for hooking it up with a render of this,
> although I ended up having to redo it anyway because I screwed up in
> my initial description of the chord progression.
>
> -Mike
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:48 AM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>> I have no comment and could not care less if this is "functional" or
>> not. I was just going for something that sounds "good." Petr's stuff
>> sounds "good" and I wanted to make something that sounded "good" too.
>>
>> http://soundcloud.com/mikebattagliamusic/hanson-comma-pump
>>
>> -Mike
>>
>

>I have no comment and could not care less if this is "functional" or
> not. I was just going for something that sounds "good." Petr's stuff
> sounds "good" and I wanted to make something that sounded "good" too.
>
> http://soundcloud.com/mikebattagliamusic/hanson-comma-pump

Interesting.
I can hear progressions of falling fourths and rising "supermajor seconds" or whatever do you call them ... How did you arrive at that particular idea?

Petr

On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Petr Parízek <petrparizek2000@...> wrote:
>
> >I have no comment and could not care less if this is "functional" or
> > not. I was just going for something that sounds "good." Petr's stuff
> > sounds "good" and I wanted to make something that sounded "good" too.
> >
> > http://soundcloud.com/mikebattagliamusic/hanson-comma-pump
>
> Interesting.
> I can hear progressions of falling fourths and rising "supermajor seconds"
> or whatever do you call them ... How did you arrive at that particular idea?

Not rising supermajor seconds, just rising 9/8's. The chord progression is

||: Am7 Em7 | F#m7 C#m7 | D#m7 A#m7 | B#m7 Gbm7(same as Fxm7) | Abm7
Ebm7 | Fm7 Cm7 | Dm7 :||

So the Dm7 turns into Am7 again. I got the idea from I think a Kenny
Garrett lick that's based around diminished[12]

||: C-A-D-B-G-E | A-F#-B-G#-E-C# | Gb-Eb-Ab-F-Db-Bb | Eb-C-F-D-Bb-G
:|| (all notes, not chords)

This has a totally different sound than the usual diminished[8] licks
that jazz guys love to abuse, much more colorful, so I always liked
it. You can think of it as implying ||: Am7 -> Em7 | F#m7 -> C#m7 |
Ebm7 -> Bbm7 | Cm7 Gm7 :|| in 12-equal

So I figured I'd try to expand it out into Hanson and here we are.

-Mike

Mike,

"Comma pump in Hanson/Kleismic temperament, 34-equal" sounds sweet - I'd enjoy hearing this chord progression in a piece of music.

Your version of Happy Birthday puts a grin on my face, it's dreamy.

S

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> I have no comment and could not care less if this is "functional" or
> not. I was just going for something that sounds "good." Petr's stuff
> sounds "good" and I wanted to make something that sounded "good" too.
>
> http://soundcloud.com/mikebattagliamusic/hanson-comma-pump
>
> -Mike
>

On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 4:58 AM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> Not rising supermajor seconds, just rising 9/8's. The chord progression is

Wait a second, this suggests I've screwed something up. This should
move me down by Pythagorean thirds, not minor thirds. I'm not sure
what I did, but it seems I did it by accident. I'm going to save this
and analyze it later. I've changed it to now reflect the actual Hanson
comma pump:

http://soundcloud.com/mikebattagliamusic/hanson-comma-pump

The URL is the same as the old URL, but if you reload it I've changed
the example. The thing I used to have up there is now at

http://soundcloud.com/mikebattagliamusic/unknown-comma-pump-34-equal

The second, unknown one is awesome! I need to work out what it is.
Since all of the root movements are by 4/3 and 9/8, it must be a comma
that 17-equal tempers out.

-Mike

On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 5:09 AM, sevishmusic <sevish@...> wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> "Comma pump in Hanson/Kleismic temperament, 34-equal" sounds sweet - I'd enjoy hearing this chord progression in a piece of music.
>
> Your version of Happy Birthday puts a grin on my face, it's dreamy.

Thanks, I appreciate it, although you might want to check it again,
because it's changed now. The old URL now reflects what the
progression should have been. Because whatever mistake I made sounded
pretty sweet, I've saved it at

http://soundcloud.com/mikebattagliamusic/unknown-comma-pump-34-equal

I think the unknown one trumps the Hanson one, personally.

-Mike

Mike wrote:

>> Not rising supermajor seconds, just rising 9/8's. The chord progression >> is
>
> Wait a second, this suggests I've screwed something up. This should
> move me down by Pythagorean thirds, not minor thirds. I'm not sure
> what I did, but it seems I did it by accident. I'm going to save this
> and analyze it later. I've changed it to now reflect the actual Hanson
> comma pump:

Yeah, this sounds like a "traceable" hanson pump -- i.e. alternating progressions by 3/4 and 10/9. The former sounds to me like alternating 3/4 and "something I don't have na idea what it is". Definitely larger than an ordinary major second.

Petr

On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 5:55 AM, Petr Parízek <petrparizek2000@...> wrote:
>
> Mike wrote:
>
> >> Not rising supermajor seconds, just rising 9/8's. The chord progression
> >> is
> >
> > Wait a second, this suggests I've screwed something up. This should
> > move me down by Pythagorean thirds, not minor thirds. I'm not sure
> > what I did, but it seems I did it by accident. I'm going to save this
> > and analyze it later. I've changed it to now reflect the actual Hanson
> > comma pump:
>
> Yeah, this sounds like a "traceable" hanson pump -- i.e. alternating
> progressions by 3/4 and 10/9. The former sounds to me like alternating 3/4
> and "something I don't have na idea what it is". Definitely larger than an
> ordinary major second.

There are a few different ways to analyze what's going on. The full
progression in the screwed up version is

||: Am7 Em7 | F#m7 C#m7 | D#m7 | A#m7 E#m7 | Fxm7 Cxm7 | Dxm7 Axm7 |
Bxm7 Cxm7 (same as Dm7) :||

If you're having trouble, the basic comma vanishing is

(minor third)^5 / (9/8) ~= 2/1

So the minor thirds have to be less than 300 cents for this to make
any sense. Depending on which minor third we use, we end up with a
different comma being tempered. So the obvious choice is to say each
of those minor thirds are 7/6. Then the major seconds between Em7 and
F#m7 become 8/7, which is what you heard. This means 17496/16807
vanishes.

In this case, my example was based in this rank-3 temperament:
http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/rt.cgi?ets=26_9_8d&limit=7 - not a bad
choice! If we decide to temper 64/63 as well, so that the root
movements become both 8/7 and 9/8, we end up with the 17&34
temperament with period of 1/17th oct and generator a just 5/4, of
which 34-equal is obviously the optimal tuning.

So there you go. I think the 17496/16807 temperament is a good way to
approach this - we can say that the "unknown" root movements were
supermajor seconds. This should also be a good indicator that
exploring more "complex" comma pumps can be a good way to go.

-Mike

Man, what a mess. Here's the latest set of URL's:

Blackwood - http://soundcloud.com/mikebattagliamusic/blackwood-comma-pump
Real Hanson - http://soundcloud.com/mikebattagliamusic/hanson-comma-pump
17496/16807 comma pump - what I called "Hanson" before. There are two versions:

Subminor version - the more natural way to voice it, makes for
smoother voice leading -
http://soundcloud.com/mikebattagliamusic/17496-16807-comma-pump-subminor-34-equal
Minor version - the original one posted, because everyone seemed to
like it - http://soundcloud.com/mikebattagliamusic/17496-16807-comma-pump-minor-34-equal

The old URLs are broken because this whole process has wreaked havoc
on my Soundcloud. Once we give the 17496/16807 temperament a name,
I'll change those URLs as well, and then repost the entire set in a
new thread as the canonical version with working URLs. Until then, the
latest versions are here.

-Mike

On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 6:26 AM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
> On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 5:55 AM, Petr Parízek <petrparizek2000@...> wrote:
>>
>> Mike wrote:
>>
>> >> Not rising supermajor seconds, just rising 9/8's. The chord progression
>> >> is
>> >
>> > Wait a second, this suggests I've screwed something up. This should
>> > move me down by Pythagorean thirds, not minor thirds. I'm not sure
>> > what I did, but it seems I did it by accident. I'm going to save this
>> > and analyze it later. I've changed it to now reflect the actual Hanson
>> > comma pump:
>>
>> Yeah, this sounds like a "traceable" hanson pump -- i.e. alternating
>> progressions by 3/4 and 10/9. The former sounds to me like alternating 3/4
>> and "something I don't have na idea what it is". Definitely larger than an
>> ordinary major second.
>
> There are a few different ways to analyze what's going on. The full
> progression in the screwed up version is
>
> ||: Am7 Em7 | F#m7 C#m7 | D#m7 | A#m7 E#m7 | Fxm7 Cxm7 | Dxm7 Axm7 |
> Bxm7 Cxm7 (same as Dm7) :||
>
> If you're having trouble, the basic comma vanishing is
>
> (minor third)^5 / (9/8) ~= 2/1
>
> So the minor thirds have to be less than 300 cents for this to make
> any sense. Depending on which minor third we use, we end up with a
> different comma being tempered. So the obvious choice is to say each
> of those minor thirds are 7/6. Then the major seconds between Em7 and
> F#m7 become 8/7, which is what you heard. This means 17496/16807
> vanishes.
>
> In this case, my example was based in this rank-3 temperament:
> http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/rt.cgi?ets=26_9_8d&limit=7 - not a bad
> choice! If we decide to temper 64/63 as well, so that the root
> movements become both 8/7 and 9/8, we end up with the 17&34
> temperament with period of 1/17th oct and generator a just 5/4, of
> which 34-equal is obviously the optimal tuning.
>
> So there you go. I think the 17496/16807 temperament is a good way to
> approach this - we can say that the "unknown" root movements were
> supermajor seconds. This should also be a good indicator that
> exploring more "complex" comma pumps can be a good way to go.
>
> -Mike
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> Man, what a mess. Here's the latest set of URL's:

Geez, I've got to get cracking getting microcsound to work and put up some 7-limit examples. I've worked out lots of them.

--- Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:

> If you're having trouble,

I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out what examples are
available, working links for them, and what chord progressions
they're supposed to contain. I've heard three so far, which
sounded neat but were too fast to be enjoyable. The most
interesting one seemed to be
http://soundcloud.com/mikebattagliamusic/17496-16807-comma-pump-subminor-34-equal

-Carl