Bull and 19-tone tuning

In
http://boethius.music.ucsb.edu/mto/issues/mto.93.0.3/mto.93.0.3.lindley.art,
Lindley and Turner Smith claim that Bull, as well as Costeley, used 19 pitch
classes. Anyone know more?

On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, Paul H. Erlich wrote:

> In
> http://boethius.music.ucsb.edu/mto/issues/mto.93.0.3/mto.93.0.3.lindley.art,
> Lindley and Turner Smith claim that Bull, as well as Costeley, used 19 pitch
> classes. Anyone know more?
>

Hello, there, and I recall that Bull wrote a kind of hexachord fantasia
for the virginals or harpsichord calling for a compass (likely meantone of
some kind) of five flats and five sharps -- that is, some kind of 17-note
meantone tuning (Gb, Db, Ab, Eb, Bb, F#, C#, G#, D#, A#). A 19-note
"chromatic harpsichord" of the kind proposed by Costeley in 19-tet, and
which became rather popular in Naples around 1600 (likely tuned in
1/4-comma), would additionally provide E# and B#.

Actually, I wouldn't find the use of more than 12 pitch classes that
unusual in either late medieval or Renaissance/Manneristic music, although
it is true that many fit routinely within a "standard" range like Eb-G#; I
suspect that Lindley's remarks in the article are meant to be illustrative
rather than exhaustive in giving examples of how different composers and
styles may call for different numbers of pitch classes.

Arnold Schlick (around 1511) thus is associated with some examples of
organ music calling for both Ab and (in ornamented cadences) G#; these
could be played on a "semi-well-tempered" instrument in Schlick's modified
meantone, with some "kludging" of a single lever for a relatively
tolerable Ab or a marginal G# -- or, of course, on an instrument with
split keys.

Most respectfully,

Margo Schulter
mschulter@value.net

Message: 18
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 20:26:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: "M. Schulter" <MSCHULTER@VALUE.NET>
Subject: Re: Bull and 19-tone tuning

Hello, there, and I recall that Bull wrote a kind of hexachord fantasia
for the virginals or harpsichord calling for a compass (likely
meantone of
some kind) of five flats and five sharps -- that is, some kind of 17-note
meantone tuning (Gb, Db, Ab, Eb, Bb, F#, C#, G#, D#, A#). A 19-note
"chromatic harpsichord" of the kind proposed by Costeley in 19-tet, and
which became rather popular in Naples around 1600 (likely tuned in
1/4-comma), would additionally provide E# and B#.

>>>>>Whether Bull's piece was intended to be played, in the form in
which it has been preserved, in some kind of meantone temperament is
difficult to demonstrate conclusively, as I'm sure Ms. Schulter
realizes. Besides the 5 sharps and five flats there is also, if I
recall correctly, a c-flat; this would not fit on the keyboard she
suggests, in meantone.

>>>>>The piece can also work well in an unequal non-meantone
temperament (with 12 keys to the octave) centered on G.

>>>>>I have also somewhere encountered speculation that it may have
been conceived for viols. The fact that it appeared copied onto 2
staves in the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book would not make this
possibility at all improbable.

Actually, I wouldn't find the use of more than 12 pitch classes that
unusual in either late medieval or Renaissance/Manneristic music, although
it is true that many fit routinely within a "standard" range like
Eb-G#;

>>>>>Keyboard works of Byrd, Gibbons and other English composers
regularly use a-flat and d-sharp as if these were nothing out of the
ordinary. If these notes are 'ordinary', might we speculate that
the 'ordinary' 12-note keyboards of the period could play them in a
satisfactory tuning?

[...]
Arnold Schlick (around 1511) thus is associated with some examples of
organ music calling for both Ab and (in ornamented cadences) G#; these
could be played on a "semi-well-tempered" instrument in Schlick's modified
meantone, with some "kludging" of a single lever for a relatively
tolerable Ab or a marginal G# -- or, of course, on an instrument with
split keys.

>>>>>As far as I know, no English instruments from the period of
Byrd, Bull, Gibbons have been preserved with more than 12 keys /
octave. This does not make their existence at that time impossible,
of course, only rather unlikely.

Best wishes,
Dale C. Carr

From: "Paul H. Erlich" <PERLICH@ACADIAN-ASSET.COM>
Subject: RE: Re: Bull and 19-tone tuning

Dale C. Carr wrote,

>Keyboard works of Byrd, Gibbons and other English composers
>regularly use a-flat and d-sharp as if these were nothing out of the
>ordinary.

Though I've certainly heard triads like F G# C in Byrd, I don't
think any of
these composers ever used the wolf fifth G# - Eb except in passing. Any
evidence to the contrary?

>>>>>>Bull's piece has a big fat a-flat major triad in root position
at the beginning of the 7th entry of the hexachord. The triad is
complete, i.e. all 3 notes are present. Later there's a complete
a-flat major triad in 1st inversion. The 'cadence' of this entry is
also an a-flat major chord, but without the e-flat. The passgae
also includes at least one d-flat major triad, a b-flat minor triad,
an f-minor seventh triad (w/ e-flat).

Regards,
Dale