Bach and tuning

Whoever put the post about Bach and the unaccompanied string
works...I have always been curious about that subject myself, and have
wondered if string players did, indeed, vary from 12 eq when they played
these works. Of course, it would not be surprising at all to find they
did. I had a question about Bach myself...I have read, in various
places, that he had an interest in numerology; does anyone know anything
about this? Was there some system he studied? How, if this is so, did it
affect his composition? Any info would be appreciated.
A superb rendition of the Bach solo sonatas/partitas is by guitarist
Kazuhito Yamashita...he also does the cello sonatas. Not only is the
technique staggering, but the feeling, the emotional depth, is amazing.
He's really playing on a deep level.
Speaking of guitarists, I just read a review of a guitarist named
Adam Del Monte, who has a guitar fretted to meantone...has anyone heard
his CD? I think that's a good thing....Hstick

Here's something that occurred to me last nite, while listening to
the Bach unaccompanied sonatas for cello; maybe someone has insight into
this. Would a cellist (or violinist, in the case of the solo violin
sonatas) necessarily try to stay in a well temperament while playing
these pieces? Since there's no frets, would they possibly alter notes to
be closer to pure tuning when possible? Would such a consideration even
be an issue? Or, did Bach think of these pieces in a well temp, and
would he have wanted a cellist/violinist to adhere to that concept? I
realize that this is sort of a nebulous area, but I really am
curious...Hstick

--- In tuning@y..., "Neil Haverstick" <STICK@U...> wrote:

> Since there's no frets, would they possibly alter notes to
> be closer to pure tuning when possible?

Perhaps -- and a few string players actually do this. John
deLaubenfels' program could emulate such a set of tuning choices.
Most classical string players, however, do the opposite -- they play
sharps _higher_ than the enharmonically equivalent flats. This type
of string playing began to come into vogue around 1800, so I would
argue it's inappropriate for Bach.

> Would such a consideration even
> be an issue?

I believe so.

> Or, did Bach think of these pieces in a well temp, and
> would he have wanted a cellist/violinist to adhere to that concept?

I think Johnny Reinhard would argue that but I see little evidence.

Hi Neil,

Ever since Pablo Casals rescued the solo cello Suites from the Germans (as he suggests in his autobiography), he intuited his "expressive intonation." I noticed for one of my shows on Bach, that his C Minor was different than his D Minor.

The C Minor had each note flat to its nearest equal temperament derivative, while the D Minor had the larger minor third in its motive. What do you know, this matches Werckmeister tuning.

More recently, I asked Dave Eggar to record his favorite movements into a mega-suite of all 6 suites, and to play each in its appropriate Werckmeister placements. It helps, not hurts. Pushing to just intonation, when Bach has long been on record as opposing pure thirds, is inappropriate to the composer's wishes. (It was Kirnberger who was to confirm that Bach had all major thirds sharp.)

So, yes, Neil, the destinctive keys of Bach's baroque apply to his Suites as well (especially as they imply harmony throughout).

Best, Johnny Reinhard

--- In tuning@y..., Afmmjr@a... wrote:

> Pushing to just intonation, when Bach has long been on record as
>opposing pure thirds, is inappropriate to the composer's wishes.

Bach instructed that keyboards be tuned with wide thirds, so that a
circulating temperament would result. Do we have any evidence that
Bach opposed shading the thirds toward purity on the 'cello?
Certainly, he would have opposed shading the thirds _away_ from
purity, which is one of the effects of "expressive intonation" (as
sharps are intoned higher than enharmonically equivalent flats).

>(It was Kirnberger who was to confirm that Bach had all major thirds
>sharp.)

On his keyboard, yes.