LOL

/justintonation/topicId_unknown.html#1227

-Igs

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "cityoftheasleep" <igliashon@...> wrote:
>
> /justintonation/topicId_unknown.html#1227

Thanks for the tip; I didn't even know this group existed. Kraig Grady, Chris Forster, Margo, Oz, John Chalmers, etc. as well as Marcel, who has just discovered the 7-limit implications of common-practice music.
I suppose Balkanization is better than vulcanization.

> /justintonation/topicId_unknown.html#1227

   If Marcel truly "solved 7-limit"...I would think he would come up with a way to chain
7:8:12 or 6:7:10 or 4:5:7 or.....7-odd-limit triads (and or minor inversions) into something with as many chords available per note as are in the "5-limit" diatonic scale.  Oh wait...that's MY opinion on what I "need" 7-limit to do...dare I differ in opinion from Marcel.

Just for grins...let me see how far I can get...

7:9:10
   4:5:7
      5:7:9

1/1
      9/8  (7/4 * 9/7 octave reduced)
    --- 6/5
5/4
   -7/5
          --12/7
7/4
    2/1

=
1/1 9/8 6/5 5/4 7/5 12/7 7/4 2/1

chords are
7:8:10
7:10:12
6:7:10
5:6:7
4:5:7
4:2:7
5:7:8

------trying again including 9-limit based on 7:9:10---------

1/1 
9/8 (apx. 8/5 * 7/5 octave reduced)      

5/4
-8/5
10/7
11/6 (apx. 10/7 * 9/7)
--7/4 (5/4 * 7/5)
2/1

AKA
1/1 9/8 5/4 8/5 10/7  7/4 11/6

5:7:9
4:5:7
9:10:14
5:8:9
7:8:9
8:9:14
9:14:16

And, of course, the spacing for these "harmonically pure" scales stinks as a result of chasing after many chords...typical.

>You're all going to go completely mental once you hear the Drei Equale haha.

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 7:25 PM, ixlramp <ixlramp@...> wrote:
>
> >You're all going to go completely mental once you hear the Drei Equale haha.

You know, I really hate this piece now. No amount of retuning will
ever make enjoy it ever again.

-Mike

     Marcel's alter ego is Dr. Drei...  And he officially shoots people in the ear whenever they hear Drei Equili.  Yep, I can't stand the song either now.

--- On Fri, 3/25/11, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:

From: Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...>
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: LOL
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, March 25, 2011, 5:30 PM

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 7:25 PM, ixlramp <ixlramp@...> wrote:

>

> >You're all going to go completely mental once you hear the Drei Equale haha.

You know, I really hate this piece now. No amount of retuning will

ever make enjoy it ever again.

-Mike

On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 12:08 AM, Michael <djtrancendance@...> wrote:
>
>      Marcel's alter ego is Dr. Drei...  And he officially shoots people in the ear whenever they hear Drei Equili.  Yep, I can't stand the song either now.

Really, if he would just retune anything else, anything at all, I'd be
much, much happier. Like a Beatles song or something.

-Mike

But why? Isn't it a very good thing that the music he makes us hate by obsessively tuning it in countless bad-sounding ways is such an obscure and insignificant little... eh, song by ol' Ludwig van?

jn

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 12:08 AM, Michael <djtrancendance@...> wrote:
> >
> >      Marcel's alter ego is Dr. Drei...  And he officially shoots people in the ear whenever they hear Drei Equili.  Yep, I can't stand the song either now.
>
> Really, if he would just retune anything else, anything at all, I'd be
> much, much happier. Like a Beatles song or something.
>
> -Mike
>

    The minor second is about 17/16, not too far from 16/15 (5-limit...makes sense)

    The major second is about 9/8...sounds about right.

.......but...........................

    The minor 3rd is about 15.6 cents flat off pure...and, to me, it sounds like garbage.

    The major 3rd is about 14 cents sharp off pure.  It sounds not too bad though...kind of gives me a hunch the human ear has much more tolerance for sharp than flat intervals.

   The tritone (suspended 4th of sorts?) is dead in between 7/5 and
10/7...it's basically a bad version of a 7-limit interval, not a 5-limit
one. 

-------------------however--------------------
    The fourth is about 4/3, just a tad sharp...so it really is 5-limit.

 >>>The fifth is just about the ONLY interval that makes perfect sense in 12TET beside the 4th and major/minor seconds to me and is really accurate toward 5-limit (how that's a lot of pain to go through to optimize the perfect fifth)!!<<<

-------------------------still..........------------------------------------

     The minor 6th is about 15 cents flat of pure and 17 cents away from 11/7.  It's not too far from 11/7.

    The major 6th is about 13 cents sharp of pure and closer to 27/16

   The minor 7th is closer to 16/9 then 9/5

  The major 7th is about 13 cents sharp of 15/8 and actually closer to 19/10.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
What most of the 12TET scale DOES have in common seems to be

A) It assumes we are OK with horrendously sharp versions of intervals, especially the 5/4...IE we could assume the "field of attraction" are focused asymmetrically upward and not like a straight bell curve: maybe HE should take that into account...

B)  It uses a LARGE deal of 7 (and not just 5) limit.  16/9, 7/5, and 11/7, 12/7 can all be argued as being a part of 12TET.

C) The real linking patterns between everything seems to be the chords formed can be summarized as x/16 (o-tonal) or 16/x (u-tonal).  17/16, 9/8, 5/4, 3/2 27/16, 15/8...all fit into this as do 16/15, 8/5, 4/3, and 16/9.   The only ratio that doesn't fit this pattern at all is the tritone, which rounds to ratios with 7 (not a factor of 16) in the numerator or denominator.

D) The more I look at 12TET, the more I realize how much it is NOT a 5-limit scale and how 7-limit and 9-limit and arguably even a tad of 11-limit (11/7) play a role.

E) Some of the chords formed in 12TET appear to defy the usual areas for fields of attraction in HE...how can you explain how the major sixth (far away from 5/3 and closer to 27/16) and major 7th (right between 15/8 and 19/10) work so well?  Or do you assume fields of attraction favor sharp tones far over flat tones (I certainly do!)?