Re: [tuning] Fw: Harmonic tuning

mark c <ahsom@rockisland.com> wrote:

>Harmonic tuning is different from just and equitempered. We tune our
>guitars, marimbas, flutes, etc.. to harmonic set 4,5,6,7,8 or 8-16 or
>16-32, A guitar has 16 frets per octave and a piano has 16 keys, 8 white,
>8 black.

How is it different from just intonation?

>This will all be published in a book called Search for Ah... and available
>by July from Vantage Press, NY. Ah is the name we have chosen for the
>seventh harmonic.

As in "Ah, ah, ah, ah! Well shake it up baby!"?

>The theory uses harmonics as a unified field math set, applying harmonics
>to DNA, brain science, light, computers, elements, gravity, etc..
>Eighteen years in the making. The major point which the book understates
>is that if DNA is harmonic, then any tonality other than harmonics is
>harmful to our health.

As much as I like things really in tune, the major point of the book
strikes me as ludicrous. Might you write something brief to convince me to
at least consider changing my mind? That would increase your chance of
making a sale to me.

What is the attachment that you sent with your post? By the way, I make a
practice of not opening attachments from strangers.

John Link

**************************************************************************
To purchase the CD "Live at Saint Peter's" by the JOHN LINK VOCAL QUINTET,
visit WWW.JOHNLINKMUSIC.COM, or write to johnlink@con2.com.
**************************************************************************

I would only add math charts as attachments and if you're interested,
contact me. My work is very serious to me, that is why I've waited 18 years.
The first attachment is the forward and preface to our book giving some of
the information you asked. Thanks for contacting me, Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: johnlink@con2.com <johnlink@con2.com>
To: tuning@egroups.com <tuning@egroups.com>
Date: Thursday, April 20, 2000 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: [tuning] Fw: Harmonic tuning

>mark c <ahsom@rockisland.com> wrote:
>
>>Harmonic tuning is different from just and equitempered. We tune our
>>guitars, marimbas, flutes, etc.. to harmonic set 4,5,6,7,8 or 8-16 or
>>16-32, A guitar has 16 frets per octave and a piano has 16 keys, 8 white,
>>8 black.
>
>How is it different from just intonation?
>
>>This will all be published in a book called Search for Ah... and available
>>by July from Vantage Press, NY. Ah is the name we have chosen for the
>>seventh harmonic.
>
>As in "Ah, ah, ah, ah! Well shake it up baby!"?
>
>>The theory uses harmonics as a unified field math set, applying harmonics
>>to DNA, brain science, light, computers, elements, gravity, etc..
>>Eighteen years in the making. The major point which the book understates
>>is that if DNA is harmonic, then any tonality other than harmonics is
>>harmful to our health.
>
>As much as I like things really in tune, the major point of the book
>strikes me as ludicrous. Might you write something brief to convince me to
>at least consider changing my mind? That would increase your chance of
>making a sale to me.
>
>What is the attachment that you sent with your post? By the way, I make a
>practice of not opening attachments from strangers.
>
>John Link
>
>**************************************************************************
>To purchase the CD "Live at Saint Peter's" by the JOHN LINK VOCAL QUINTET,
>visit WWW.JOHNLINKMUSIC.COM, or write to johnlink@con2.com.
>**************************************************************************
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Enjoy the award-winning journalism of The New York Times with
>convenient home delivery. And for a limited time, get 50% off for the
>first 8 weeks by subscribing. Pay by credit card and receive an
>additional 4 weeks at this low introductory rate.
>http://click.egroups.com/1/3102/1/_/239029/_/956283740/
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And it being so important You have affixed a value I presume....

mark c wrote:

> I would only add math charts as attachments and if you're interested,
> contact me. My work is very serious to me, that is why I've waited 18 years.
> The first attachment is the forward and preface to our book giving some of
> the information you asked. Thanks for contacting me, Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: johnlink@con2.com <johnlink@con2.com>
> To: tuning@egroups.com <tuning@egroups.com>
> Date: Thursday, April 20, 2000 7:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [tuning] Fw: Harmonic tuning
>
> >mark c <ahsom@rockisland.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Harmonic tuning is different from just and equitempered. We tune our
> >>guitars, marimbas, flutes, etc.. to harmonic set 4,5,6,7,8 or 8-16 or
> >>16-32, A guitar has 16 frets per octave and a piano has 16 keys, 8 white,
> >>8 black.
> >
> >How is it different from just intonation?
> >
> >>This will all be published in a book called Search for Ah... and available
> >>by July from Vantage Press, NY. Ah is the name we have chosen for the
> >>seventh harmonic.
> >
> >As in "Ah, ah, ah, ah! Well shake it up baby!"?
> >
> >>The theory uses harmonics as a unified field math set, applying harmonics
> >>to DNA, brain science, light, computers, elements, gravity, etc..
> >>Eighteen years in the making. The major point which the book understates
> >>is that if DNA is harmonic, then any tonality other than harmonics is
> >>harmful to our health.
> >
> >As much as I like things really in tune, the major point of the book
> >strikes me as ludicrous. Might you write something brief to convince me to
> >at least consider changing my mind? That would increase your chance of
> >making a sale to me.
> >
> >What is the attachment that you sent with your post? By the way, I make a
> >practice of not opening attachments from strangers.
> >
> >John Link
> >
> >**************************************************************************
> >To purchase the CD "Live at Saint Peter's" by the JOHN LINK VOCAL QUINTET,
> >visit WWW.JOHNLINKMUSIC.COM, or write to johnlink@con2.com.
> >**************************************************************************
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Enjoy the award-winning journalism of The New York Times with
> >convenient home delivery. And for a limited time, get 50% off for the
> >first 8 weeks by subscribing. Pay by credit card and receive an
> >additional 4 weeks at this low introductory rate.
> >http://click.egroups.com/1/3102/1/_/239029/_/956283740/
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> your online high school class reunion. With 4.4 million alumni
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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I agree with John Link
and i made the same mistakes on my first visit to the list
i naively thought all the list memebers were obviously in the dark and MY research and
discoveries of re-spiralling DNA via continual exposure to JI Harmonic Series etc.. was MINE

johnlink@con2.com wrote:

> mark c <ahsom@rockisland.com> wrote:
>
> >Harmonic tuning is different from just and equitempered. We tune our
> >guitars, marimbas, flutes, etc.. to harmonic set 4,5,6,7,8 or 8-16 or
> >16-32, A guitar has 16 frets per octave and a piano has 16 keys, 8 white,
> >8 black.
>
> How is it different from just intonation?
>
> >This will all be published in a book called Search for Ah... and available
> >by July from Vantage Press, NY. Ah is the name we have chosen for the
> >seventh harmonic.
>
> As in "Ah, ah, ah, ah! Well shake it up baby!"?
>
> >The theory uses harmonics as a unified field math set, applying harmonics
> >to DNA, brain science, light, computers, elements, gravity, etc..
> >Eighteen years in the making. The major point which the book understates
> >is that if DNA is harmonic, then any tonality other than harmonics is
> >harmful to our health.
>
> As much as I like things really in tune, the major point of the book
> strikes me as ludicrous. Might you write something brief to convince me to
> at least consider changing my mind? That would increase your chance of
> making a sale to me.
>
> What is the attachment that you sent with your post? By the way, I make a
> practice of not opening attachments from strangers.
>
> John Link
>
> **************************************************************************
> To purchase the CD "Live at Saint Peter's" by the JOHN LINK VOCAL QUINTET,
> visit WWW.JOHNLINKMUSIC.COM, or write to johnlink@con2.com.
> **************************************************************************
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Enjoy the award-winning journalism of The New York Times with
> convenient home delivery. And for a limited time, get 50% off for the
> first 8 weeks by subscribing. Pay by credit card and receive an
> additional 4 weeks at this low introductory rate.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/3102/1/_/239029/_/956283740/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
> email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
> tuning-subscribe@egroups.com - join the tuning group.
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I don't understand "value" in this case.

-----Original Message-----
From: ppagano@bellsouth.net <ppagano@bellsouth.net>
To: tuning@egroups.com <tuning@egroups.com>
Date: Friday, April 21, 2000 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: [tuning] Fw: Harmonic tuning

>And it being so important You have affixed a value I presume....
>
>
>mark c wrote:
>
>> I would only add math charts as attachments and if you're interested,
>> contact me. My work is very serious to me, that is why I've waited 18
years.
>> The first attachment is the forward and preface to our book giving some
of
>> the information you asked. Thanks for contacting me, Mark
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: johnlink@con2.com <johnlink@con2.com>
>> To: tuning@egroups.com <tuning@egroups.com>
>> Date: Thursday, April 20, 2000 7:22 PM
>> Subject: Re: [tuning] Fw: Harmonic tuning
>>
>> >mark c <ahsom@rockisland.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>Harmonic tuning is different from just and equitempered. We tune our
>> >>guitars, marimbas, flutes, etc.. to harmonic set 4,5,6,7,8 or 8-16 or
>> >>16-32, A guitar has 16 frets per octave and a piano has 16 keys, 8
white,
>> >>8 black.
>> >
>> >How is it different from just intonation?
>> >
>> >>This will all be published in a book called Search for Ah... and
available
>> >>by July from Vantage Press, NY. Ah is the name we have chosen for the
>> >>seventh harmonic.
>> >
>> >As in "Ah, ah, ah, ah! Well shake it up baby!"?
>> >
>> >>The theory uses harmonics as a unified field math set, applying
harmonics
>> >>to DNA, brain science, light, computers, elements, gravity, etc..
>> >>Eighteen years in the making. The major point which the book
understates
>> >>is that if DNA is harmonic, then any tonality other than harmonics is
>> >>harmful to our health.
>> >
>> >As much as I like things really in tune, the major point of the book
>> >strikes me as ludicrous. Might you write something brief to convince me
to
>> >at least consider changing my mind? That would increase your chance of
>> >making a sale to me.
>> >
>> >What is the attachment that you sent with your post? By the way, I make
a
>> >practice of not opening attachments from strangers.
>> >
>> >John Link
>> >
>>
>**************************************************************************
>> >To purchase the CD "Live at Saint Peter's" by the JOHN LINK VOCAL
QUINTET,
>> >visit WWW.JOHNLINKMUSIC.COM, or write to johnlink@con2.com.
>>
>**************************************************************************
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >Enjoy the award-winning journalism of The New York Times with
>> >convenient home delivery. And for a limited time, get 50% off for the
>> >first 8 weeks by subscribing. Pay by credit card and receive an
>> >additional 4 weeks at this low introductory rate.
>> >http://click.egroups.com/1/3102/1/_/239029/_/956283740/
>> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
>> >email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
>> > tuning-subscribe@egroups.com - join the tuning group.
>> > tuning-unsubscribe@egroups.com - unsubscribe from the tuning group.
>> > tuning-nomail@egroups.com - put your email message delivery on hold
for
>> the tuning group.
>> > tuning-digest@egroups.com - change your subscription to daily digest
>> mode.
>> > tuning-normal@egroups.com - change your subscription to individual
>> emails.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Whatever happened to the class clown? Find out at Classmates.com,
>> your online high school class reunion. With 4.4 million alumni
>> already registered, there's a good chance you'll find him here:
>> http://click.egroups.com/1/3140/1/_/239029/_/956284942/
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
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the tuning group.
>> tuning-digest@egroups.com - change your subscription to daily digest
mode.
>> tuning-normal@egroups.com - change your subscription to individual
emails.
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Enjoy the award-winning journalism of The New York Times with
>convenient home delivery. And for a limited time, get 50% off for the
>first 8 weeks by subscribing. Pay by credit card and receive an
>additional 4 weeks at this low introductory rate.
>http://click.egroups.com/1/3102/1/_/239029/_/956324652/
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emails.
>
>

I don't understand these responses. Just and harmonic are not the same.

-----Original Message-----
From: ppagano@bellsouth.net <ppagano@bellsouth.net>
To: tuning@egroups.com <tuning@egroups.com>
Date: Friday, April 21, 2000 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: [tuning] Fw: Harmonic tuning

>I agree with John Link
>and i made the same mistakes on my first visit to the list
>i naively thought all the list memebers were obviously in the dark and MY
research and
>discoveries of re-spiralling DNA via continual exposure to JI Harmonic
Series etc.. was MINE
>
>
>johnlink@con2.com wrote:
>
>> mark c <ahsom@rockisland.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Harmonic tuning is different from just and equitempered. We tune our
>> >guitars, marimbas, flutes, etc.. to harmonic set 4,5,6,7,8 or 8-16 or
>> >16-32, A guitar has 16 frets per octave and a piano has 16 keys, 8
white,
>> >8 black.
>>
>> How is it different from just intonation?
>>
>> >This will all be published in a book called Search for Ah... and
available
>> >by July from Vantage Press, NY. Ah is the name we have chosen for the
>> >seventh harmonic.
>>
>> As in "Ah, ah, ah, ah! Well shake it up baby!"?
>>
>> >The theory uses harmonics as a unified field math set, applying
harmonics
>> >to DNA, brain science, light, computers, elements, gravity, etc..
>> >Eighteen years in the making. The major point which the book understates
>> >is that if DNA is harmonic, then any tonality other than harmonics is
>> >harmful to our health.
>>
>> As much as I like things really in tune, the major point of the book
>> strikes me as ludicrous. Might you write something brief to convince me
to
>> at least consider changing my mind? That would increase your chance of
>> making a sale to me.
>>
>> What is the attachment that you sent with your post? By the way, I make a
>> practice of not opening attachments from strangers.
>>
>> John Link
>>
>>
**************************************************************************
>> To purchase the CD "Live at Saint Peter's" by the JOHN LINK VOCAL
QUINTET,
>> visit WWW.JOHNLINKMUSIC.COM, or write to johnlink@con2.com.
>>
**************************************************************************
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Enjoy the award-winning journalism of The New York Times with
>> convenient home delivery. And for a limited time, get 50% off for the
>> first 8 weeks by subscribing. Pay by credit card and receive an
>> additional 4 weeks at this low introductory rate.
>> http://click.egroups.com/1/3102/1/_/239029/_/956283740/
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
>> email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
>> tuning-subscribe@egroups.com - join the tuning group.
>> tuning-unsubscribe@egroups.com - unsubscribe from the tuning group.
>> tuning-nomail@egroups.com - put your email message delivery on hold for
the tuning group.
>> tuning-digest@egroups.com - change your subscription to daily digest
mode.
>> tuning-normal@egroups.com - change your subscription to individual
emails.
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Good friends, school spirit, hair-dos you'd like to forget.
>Classmates.com has them all. And with 4.4 million alumni already
>registered, there's a good chance you'll find your friends here:
>http://click.egroups.com/1/2886/1/_/239029/_/956325343/
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
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> tuning-digest@egroups.com - change your subscription to daily digest
mode.
> tuning-normal@egroups.com - change your subscription to individual
emails.
>
>

mark c wrote:
>
> I don't understand these responses. Just and harmonic are not the same.

Just Intonation is a tuning based on the harmonic series.

--
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* xouoxno@virtulink.com
*
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* M E L A v i r t u a l d r e a m house monitor
*
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm

Just Intonation is based on using whole number ratios - purely mathematical.
Harmonic Tuning is based on each harmonic over tone - physical.
Harmonic Tuning is a TYPE of Just intonation, because of the mathematical
nature of the physics of sound.
The JI Scale used to compare with the harmonic tuning was a different type
of JI.

I'd still like to hear the harmonic scale :)

Music, Magick, and Sex.
Alex J. Van Wey
Director of Vajravai
Chaos Monkey
http://www.vajravai.com
http://www.mp3.com/chaosmonkey

I don't understand your posts either.

Your'e obviously THE authority on JI & the harmonic series so please enlighten us. Your major scale was real neato dude.

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>mark c wrote:
>
>> I don't understand these responses. Just and harmonic are not the same.

David Bearsdley wrote,

>Just Intonation is a tuning based on the harmonic series.

Yes, but there is a difference between a harmonic series tuning, such as
used by Mark C., Carter Scholz, Pat Pagano, and Tuvan throat singers; and
just intonation, as used by Partch, Helmholtz, Harrison, Catler, etc. In the
former, all the ratios (relative to a fixed tonic) have 1 (in Scholz' and
Tuvans' case) or a power of 2 (in Mark or Pat's case) in the denominator,
with the numerator taking on a fairly contiguous set of integer values,
often extending quite high. In the latter, you may find factors other than 2
in both the numerator and denominator of the ratios relative to the
designated tonic, and usually there is a fairly low prime limit, or limit to
the highest prime factor of the numerators and denominators. The former
emphasizes a single root with varying degrees of consonance and dissonance;
the latter emphasizes consonant relationships which may flow around various
roots, while dissonant relationships tend to be "rootless" in origin.

Alex van Wey wrote,

>Just Intonation is based on using whole number ratios - purely
mathematical.
>Harmonic Tuning is based on each harmonic over tone - physical.

I don't like this dichotomy at all. A better one would be: Harmonic Tuning
is based on a strict imitation of a physical phenomenon, which Just
Intonation more generally applies the audible characteristics associated
with that phenomenon across a set of pitches. Neither is more purely
mathematical or more physical than the other. Only in the case of Tuvan
throat singers is Harmonic Tuning the result of physical properties of the
sound-generating mechanism.

Most cultures which employ a tonic drone use many JI pitches which are not
harmonics of the drone, such as 6/5 and 4/3, because of the psychophysical
consonance that results, not because these cultures' musics are "purely
mathematical".

Paul Wrote:
"...I don't like this dichotomy at all. A better one would be: Harmonic
Tuning
is based on a strict imitation of a physical phenomenon, which Just
Intonation more generally applies the audible characteristics associated
with that phenomenon across a set of pitches..."

I apologize - I was not intending to represent a dichotomy, but rather that
Harmonic Scales are a Subset of all the Possible JI Scales.

Bottom line = What Paul Said ;)

Paul - any new MAD DUXX?

Music, Magick, and Sex.
Alex J. Van Wey
Director of Vajravai
Chaos Monkey
http://www.vajravai.com
http://www.mp3.com/chaosmonkey

-Most beginnings between "cultures" begin in misunderstandings. We must not be afraid to misunderstand!
( this is not directed at pat )
I request we learn from our past and approach all new ideas with a little more gentleness. no matter how close they
seem obvious or old hat or redundant. sometimes a different way of looking at something is as important as the thing
itself. Verbs are as important as nouns. Maybe more at this stage of the game!

patrick pagano wrote:

> I don't understand your posts either.
>
> Your'e obviously THE authority on JI & the harmonic series so please enlighten us. Your major scale was real neato dude.
>
> .

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
www.anaphoria.com

I'm bailing out for now. I will wait until the literature I have prepared is available in June or July . See you
-----Original Message-----
From: Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com>
To: tuning@egroups.com <tuning@egroups.com>
Date: Friday, April 21, 2000 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [tuning] Fw: Harmonic tuning

-Most beginnings between "cultures" begin in misunderstandings. We must not be afraid to misunderstand!
( this is not directed at pat )
I request we learn from our past and approach all new ideas with a little more gentleness. no matter how close they seem obvious or old hat or redundant. sometimes a different way of looking at something is as important as the thing itself. Verbs are as important as nouns. Maybe more at this stage of the game!
patrick pagano wrote:

I don't understand your posts either.
Your'e obviously THE authority on JI & the harmonic series so please enlighten us. Your major scale was real neato dude.

.

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
www.anaphoria.com

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"Paul H. Erlich" wrote:
>
> >mark c wrote:
> >
> >> I don't understand these responses. Just and harmonic are not the same.
>
> David Bearsdley wrote,
>
> >Just Intonation is a tuning based on the harmonic series.
>
> Yes, but there is a difference between a harmonic series tuning, such as
> used by Mark C., Carter Scholz, Pat Pagano, and Tuvan throat singers; and
> just intonation, as used by Partch, Helmholtz, Harrison, Catler, etc. In the
> former, all the ratios (relative to a fixed tonic) have 1 (in Scholz' and
> Tuvans' case) or a power of 2 (in Mark or Pat's case) in the denominator,
> with the numerator taking on a fairly contiguous set of integer values,
> often extending quite high. In the latter, you may find factors other than 2
> in both the numerator and denominator of the ratios relative to the
> designated tonic, and usually there is a fairly low prime limit, or limit to
> the highest prime factor of the numerators and denominators. The former
> emphasizes a single root with varying degrees of consonance and dissonance;
> the latter emphasizes consonant relationships which may flow around various
> roots, while dissonant relationships tend to be "rootless" in origin.

Except the harmonic series IS just intonation, not bad Paul.

--
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* xouoxno@virtulink.com
*
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* M E L A v i r t u a l d r e a m house monitor
*
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm

"Only in the case of Tuvan
throat singers is Harmonic Tuning the result of physical properties of the
sound-generating mechanism."

Aren't you forgetting the bugle?

Stay Tuned,
Keenan

>Just Intonation is based on using whole number ratios - purely
>mathematical.
>Harmonic Tuning is based on each harmonic over tone - physical.

Does it follow, therefore, that, while tuning a piano to a Just Intonation,
I would ignore the inharmonicity that is a natural, physical property of an
actual, vibrating string? That I would hew to whole number ratios even if,
because of string inharmonicity, they result in unacceptably beating
intervals? That there'd be no octave-stretching? I think not.

Just Intonation, in praxis, is based on the physical overtones produced by
the vibrating elements. These can be harmonic. Or not. At the level of
practicality, Just Intonation is most decidedly physical.

John Thaden
Little Rock, Arkansas, USA
http://www.flash.net/~jjthaden

mark c wrote,

> The major point which the book understates is that if DNA is
harmonic, then any tonality other than harmonics is harmful to our
health.

Ah (no pun intended), I always knew there must some reason for my
occasionally petulant posts and general malaise.

Keenan wrote,

>"Only in the case of Tuvan
>throat singers is Harmonic Tuning the result of physical properties of the
>sound-generating mechanism."

>Aren't you forgetting the bugle?

Well, sort of, but that's a very different story. The notes of a bugle are
only an _approximate_ harmonic series.