How the Tuning List changed my Christmas Concerts

Every year I go to school concerts with my abundant kids. They're
awful, technically, of course -- off-rhythm and out of tune -- but I
really love to hear the budding musicians starting to learn what music
is all about.

This year, I heard things differently. Of course the harmonies were
off a little bit -- the piano's thirds are sharp by 14 cents! The kids
are harmonizing with a combination of the 12TET major third (to match
the piano), a just major third (tuned by ear), and a
not-totally-explicable neutral third. It's all good harmony, just a
little more densely packed chords than usual!

Okay, maybe that's not quite right. But I was more amused this
Christmas season by the "out of tune" aspects of the music than I have
been in years past. There's a lot said here that I don't fully
understand, but what I *do* understand has been enriching.

Merry Christmas, if that's your persuasion, and thanks for an
interesting bunch of conversations.

Regards,
Jake

Jake>"The kids are harmonizing with a combination of the 12TET major third (to
match
the piano), a just major third (tuned by ear), and a not-totally-explicable
neutral third."

Neutral third as in...11/9?!
Funny thing is (if that's the case)...I have long believed 11/9 represents
an additional low-entropy/low-tension point that I've long suspected is
physiological even though I've yet to see any papers point to it as such. It
(11/9) is not so low-tension as the major third (obviously), but the most
relaxed/"consonant" sounding thing between a major third and a minor third and
just about the only thing between those far enough from both 5/4 and 6/5 (as a
"mediant" of sorts) to really have its own unique mood IMVHO.

So I think it's perfectly natural to gravitate toward the 11/9 purely by ear,
especially if their minds are telling them to go for a different mood, but still
fairly strong sense of wholeness/low-tension (kind of like the blue notes in
blues). Come to think of it...I believe 15/11, 18/11, 22/15, and 11/6 have
similar properties (have your students ever ended up using any of those?).

The use of both the just major third and 12TET third seems to imply they are
"tempering" to try to get the best dyadic accuracy both relative to the
piano/notes-already-playing and the idea "just form"...this sounds not unlike
what adaptive JI does. Interesting stuff...

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Michael <djtrancendance@...> wrote:
It
> (11/9) is not so low-tension as the major third (obviously), but the most
> relaxed/"consonant" sounding thing between a major third and a minor third and
> just about the only thing between those far enough from both 5/4 and 6/5 (as a
> "mediant" of sorts) to really have its own unique mood IMVHO.

It's the mediant; there's no "of sorts" about it.

(concerning 11/9)

Gene>"It's the mediant; there's no "of sorts" about it."
That makes it easy enough: IE 11/9 is the mediant of/between 6/5 (minor
third) and 5/4 (major third). :-) From my experience here I've found even when
I'm sure of something and have researched it a lot, some expert here will still
just about always find an error and accuse me of egotism (hence my very lax tone
of voice here)...but hey, it's nice to not have that happen for once. :-)