Excluded by Peers

I have been reading and composing a review of The Mathematics of Music by John O'Sullivan.

Due to time constraints this will be a multi-part review and installment one can read here: http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=317

At that site you can play online a piece of music written in his Blue JI tuning. Included are composition notes and scala text.

If you'd rather skip all of that here is a direct download link.

http://micro.soonlabel.com/blue-tuning/blue-ji-excluded-by-peers.mp3

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "christopherv" <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:

> At that site you can play online a piece of music written in his Blue JI tuning. Included are composition notes and scala text.

What happened to the name Natural Pan Just for that scale?

That I can't answer - perhaps the author can.

Chris

On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 5:07 PM, genewardsmith
<genewardsmith@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "christopherv" <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> > At that site you can play online a piece of music written in his Blue JI tuning. Included are composition notes and scala text.
>
> What happened to the name Natural Pan Just for that scale?
>

I originally chose the name Natural Pan Temperament because the word "Pan" means "including everything" (i.e. 1/1 is better for ascending music and 3/2 is better for descending music, two tonics of equal strength). I changed the name to Blue Temperament because the demi god Pan seems a bit of an unsavoury character.

John.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> That I can't answer - perhaps the author can.
>
> Chris
>
> On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 5:07 PM, genewardsmith
> <genewardsmith@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "christopherv" <chrisvaisvil@> wrote:
> >
> > > At that site you can play online a piece of music written in his Blue JI tuning. Included are composition notes and scala text.
> >
> > What happened to the name Natural Pan Just for that scale?
> >
>

I was wondering why you chose 15/14 and 7/5 instead of the 5 limit intervals.?

Pan is Ok in my book. Less in rage than Apollo although for the greeks it was never an either/or and they all got along.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "john777music" <jfos777@...> wrote:
>
> I originally chose the name Natural Pan Temperament because the word "Pan" means "including everything" (i.e. 1/1 is better for ascending music and 3/2 is better for descending music, two tonics of equal strength). I changed the name to Blue Temperament because the demi god Pan seems a bit of an unsavoury character.
>
> John.
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@> wrote:
> >
> > That I can't answer - perhaps the author can.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 5:07 PM, genewardsmith
> > <genewardsmith@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "christopherv" <chrisvaisvil@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > At that site you can play online a piece of music written in his Blue JI tuning. Included are composition notes and scala text.
> > >
> > > What happened to the name Natural Pan Just for that scale?
> > >
> >
>

Here is also a lattice of your scale which i did that helps me see what
is in it only from a harmonic viewpoint.

http://anaphoria.com/OsullivanBLUESjiscale.gif
<http://anaphoria.com/OsullivanBLUESjiscale.gif>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Brofessor" <kraiggrady@...> wrote:
>
> I was wondering why you chose 15/14 and 7/5 instead of the 5 limit
intervals.?
>
> Pan is Ok in my book. Less in rage than Apollo although for the greeks
it was never an either/or and they all got along.
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "john777music" jfos777@ wrote:
> >
> > I originally chose the name Natural Pan Temperament because the word
"Pan" means "including everything" (i.e. 1/1 is better for ascending
music and 3/2 is better for descending music, two tonics of equal
strength). I changed the name to Blue Temperament because the demi god
Pan seems a bit of an unsavoury character.
> >
> > John.
> >
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@> wrote:
> > >
> > > That I can't answer - perhaps the author can.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 5:07 PM, genewardsmith
> > > <genewardsmith@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "christopherv" <chrisvaisvil@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > At that site you can play online a piece of music written in
his Blue JI tuning. Included are composition notes and scala text.
> > > >
> > > > What happened to the name Natural Pan Just for that scale?
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Diagram corrected. slant on 15/14 corrected

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Brofessor" <kraiggrady@...> wrote:
>
> Here is also a lattice of your scale which i did that helps me see what
> is in it only from a harmonic viewpoint.
>
> http://anaphoria.com/OsullivanBLUESjiscale.gif
> <http://anaphoria.com/OsullivanBLUESjiscale.gif>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Brofessor" <kraiggrady@> wrote:
> >
> > I was wondering why you chose 15/14 and 7/5 instead of the 5 limit
> intervals.?
> >
> > Pan is Ok in my book. Less in rage than Apollo although for the greeks
> it was never an either/or and they all got along.
> >
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "john777music" jfos777@ wrote:
> > >
> > > I originally chose the name Natural Pan Temperament because the word
> "Pan" means "including everything" (i.e. 1/1 is better for ascending
> music and 3/2 is better for descending music, two tonics of equal
> strength). I changed the name to Blue Temperament because the demi god
> Pan seems a bit of an unsavoury character.
> > >
> > > John.
> > >
> > > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > That I can't answer - perhaps the author can.
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 5:07 PM, genewardsmith
> > > > <genewardsmith@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "christopherv" <chrisvaisvil@>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > At that site you can play online a piece of music written in
> his Blue JI tuning. Included are composition notes and scala text.
> > > > >
> > > > > What happened to the name Natural Pan Just for that scale?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

It is easier to see that indeed it is self mirroring

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Brofessor" <kraiggrady@...> wrote:
>
> Diagram corrected. slant on 15/14 corrected
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Brofessor" <kraiggrady@> wrote:
> >
> > Here is also a lattice of your scale which i did that helps me see what
> > is in it only from a harmonic viewpoint.
> >
> > http://anaphoria.com/OsullivanBLUESjiscale.gif
> > <http://anaphoria.com/OsullivanBLUESjiscale.gif>
> >
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Brofessor" <kraiggrady@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I was wondering why you chose 15/14 and 7/5 instead of the 5 limit
> > intervals.?
> > >
> > > Pan is Ok in my book. Less in rage than Apollo although for the greeks
> > it was never an either/or and they all got along.
> > >
> > > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "john777music" jfos777@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I originally chose the name Natural Pan Temperament because the word
> > "Pan" means "including everything" (i.e. 1/1 is better for ascending
> > music and 3/2 is better for descending music, two tonics of equal
> > strength). I changed the name to Blue Temperament because the demi god
> > Pan seems a bit of an unsavoury character.
> > > >
> > > > John.
> > > >
> > > > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > That I can't answer - perhaps the author can.
> > > > >
> > > > > Chris
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 5:07 PM, genewardsmith
> > > > > <genewardsmith@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "christopherv" <chrisvaisvil@>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > At that site you can play online a piece of music written in
> > his Blue JI tuning. Included are composition notes and scala text.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What happened to the name Natural Pan Just for that scale?
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Chris Vaisvil wrote :

> I have been reading and composing a review of The Mathematics of > Music by John O'Sullivan.
> Due to time constraints this will be a multi-part review and > installment one can read here: http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=317
> At that site you can play online a piece of music written in his > Blue JI tuning. Included are composition notes and scala text.
> If you'd rather skip all of that here is a direct download link.

http://micro.soonlabel.com/blue-tuning/blue-ji-excluded-by-peers.mp3

I think this is a beautiful impro, Chris. Sounds like you were inspired by the purity of the JI chords when you played these harmonies.
Nevertheless I feel a dissonance between 55" and 1'05", could it be something like a 40/27 in that passage ?
(Kraig's lattice shows two of them in the scale, and also one fifth of the wolf).
Also did you used at all the 15/14 and 7/5 of the scale, that close the fifth cycle ? I am be curious to hear how these two 7-L notes sound with the rest.
- - - - - - -
Jacques

Hello Jacques,

Let me try to address your questions.

First point I need to make is that when I improvise I usually think in
terms of pitches. Like a game of chess where I can usually see 2 to 3
moves ahead (for meaningful moves) I also "hear" where I want to go.
So because of this reason I do not think in terms of fractions.
Perhaps sometime in the future I will because when I improvise in
straight 12 edo pitches and note names are of course the same and it
is easy to translate.

Second point, between 55" and 1'05' I don't hear what I would call a
dissonance - the chord is a D major with added 2nd. I think what
occurs there would better be called a tuning "imperfection" - a place
where tossing JI into just 12 notes required a compromise.

Third point - as for using all of the 15/14 and 7/5 of the scale I
encourage you to play in the tuning yourself. Since I posted the scala
file at www.chrisvaisvil.com it should be easy for you to load it into
Ethno and give it a try. While I intend to thoroughly explore John's
Blue JI and Blue temperament tunings I also have other commitments
with family. So if I find some time I may or may not work with John's
tunings - for instance given 20 minutes I just may pick up my wife 12
edo Seagull acoustic and improvise or compose - or do a sing along
with my daughter (who this morning asked to to play Across the
Universe for her to sing with (Lennon / Beatles)). So, after all of
that, the best way to get familiar with John's tunings is to give them
a try. When I get to it I will post my scala formatted file of his
temperament as well.

Now I'm off to spend time with my daughter,

Chris

>
> http://micro.soonlabel.com/blue-tuning/blue-ji-excluded-by-peers.mp3
> I think this is a beautiful impro, Chris. Sounds like you were inspired by the purity of the JI chords when you played these harmonies.
> Nevertheless I feel a dissonance between 55" and 1'05", could it be something like a 40/27 in that passage ?
> (Kraig's lattice shows two of them in the scale, and also one fifth of the wolf).
> Also did you used at all the 15/14 and 7/5 of the scale, that close the fifth cycle ? I am be curious to hear how these two 7-L  notes sound with the rest.
> - - - - - - -
> Jacques
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Jacques,
>
> Let me try to address your questions.
>
> First point I need to make is that when I improvise I usually think in
> terms of pitches. Like a game of chess where I can usually see 2 to 3
> moves ahead (for meaningful moves) I also "hear" where I want to go.
> So because of this reason I do not think in terms of fractions.

Of course not, when I improvise I don't either !

> Second point, between 55" and 1'05' I don't hear what I would call a
> dissonance - the chord is a D major with added 2nd. I think what
> occurs there would better be called a tuning "imperfection" - a place
> where tossing JI into just 12 notes required a compromise.

D major +2nd : then this chord is
[1/1, 10/9, 56/45, 40/27]
Thanks ! my guess was right then.

> Third point - as for using all of the 15/14 and 7/5 of the scale I
> encourage you to play in the tuning yourself.

Seems you used the F#, that's the 7/5. Sounds fine in your piece BTW !

Since I posted the scala
> file at www.chrisvaisvil.com it should be easy for you to load it into
> Ethno and give it a try. While I intend to thoroughly explore John's
> Blue JI and Blue temperament tunings I also have other commitments
> with family. So if I find some time I may or may not work with John's
> tunings - for instance given 20 minutes I just may pick up my wife 12
> edo Seagull acoustic and improvise or compose - or do a sing along
> with my daughter (who this morning asked to to play Across the
> Universe for her to sing with (Lennon / Beatles)).

Great song !

So, after all of
> that, the best way to get familiar with John's tunings is to give them
> a try. When I get to it I will post my scala formatted file of his
> temperament as well.
>
> Now I'm off to spend time with my daughter,
>
> Chris
>
> >
> > http://micro.soonlabel.com/blue-tuning/blue-ji-excluded-by-peers.mp3
> > I think this is a beautiful impro, Chris. Sounds like you were inspired by the purity of the JI chords when you played these harmonies.
> > Nevertheless I feel a dissonance between 55" and 1'05", could it be something like a 40/27 in that passage ?
> > (Kraig's lattice shows two of them in the scale, and also one fifth of the wolf).
> > Also did you used at all the 15/14 and 7/5 of the scale, that close the fifth cycle ? I am be curious to hear how these two 7-L  notes sound with the rest.
> > - - - - - - -
> > Jacques