Moderation and co-facilitation: some thoughts

Hello, Ozan and Carl and all.

First, Carl, please let me congratulate you on your years of
service as moderator of our group, and wish you the best in your
future endeavors on or off this list at the point where you do
step down.

Secondly, Carl and Ozan, thank you both warmly for our many
spirited dialogues and exchanges of ideas, which I hope will
continue, whatever our roles on this list.

In recent days, as it has been revealed that Carl may not be too
far from passing his moderatorial torch to others, there have
been discussions about how this group should ideally be
moderated, as well as proposals that I might take part in
moderating it. Whether I have either adequate technical means or
the right skills to become an official moderator -- presumably
one of at least three, as I understand -- remains an open
question.

However, there's another office here that I share with Carl,
Ozan, and all of you: facilitating the group and its smooth if
often spirited operation. We are all facilitators -- for better,
or for otherwise.

As you have discussed, Carl, the office of moderator is a bit
like that of a proverbial regal log: mostly deleting spam and so
forth. However, a moderator -- and this is now my interpretation
-- will tend to be viewed as Facilitator-in-Chief, setting the
tone as to how others should facilitate. And since we are all
facilitators, I would like to propose a few possible standards
and guidelines.

These are guidelines which I would try to follow and promote as a
moderator, and I will try to follow and promote as one
facilitator among many (a description fitting moderators as well
as everyone else here).

The keynote here, I think, is to promote melodic and harmonic
empathy: a climate where all alternative styles, theories, and
compositional or improvisational and other performance methods
are warmly welcome. Since "microtonality" isn't a genre, but a
dimension and technique of music, pluralism and diversity go with
our territory, and we need to handle it amicably and gracefully.

In that spirit, here are some of my ideas on guidelines:

(1) ALL LEVELS WELCOME. The first hallmark of a truly
academic outlook in the most positive sense is not
merely the possession of knowledge and skills, and their
increase by research and practice, but a willingness to
share and transmit that knowledge and those skills: in
other words, to teach. Receptiveness to beginners, and
to "casual" or "curious" participants or visitors, is a
mark of academic devotion as well as common decency.

(2) MAINTAIN AT LEAST THE ILLUSION OF UNIVERSAL GOODWILL.
Sometimes it may seem like a very bare and formal
illusion, a mere suspension of disbelief, but acting as
if universal goodwill prevailed here is one step toward
bringing it about, or at least not moving us further
from it! This may seem like maintaining a facade; but if
we don't maintain it, our structure of solidarity which
makes this group possible as a community will collapse,
or at least become very unpleasant to inhabit.

(3) SOMETIMES SILENCE IS PRECIOUS. If we really can't find a
kind word to say about the topic of a thread, or a
proposed theory, or a piece of music submitted here,
then silence is the best policy! This isn't at all to
exclude constructive criticism and even spirited debate
of a mutually agreeable nature, but it is to exclude
destructive criticism of other list members. Of course,
a "kind word" can be combined with constructive
criticisms or suggestions, but we need to be confident
that they will be received as such. Otherwise, silence
has the big advantage of saving bandwidth for
constructive interactions that promote our community's
well-being.

(4) IF THIS BE TROLLING. A quirk of Anglo-American history
is the concept of "treason" as a crime which in English
law, despite the attempt in 1352 during the reign of
King Edward III to limit its scope, could mean almost
anything, with the United States Constitution thus
declaring a narrow definition. In Usenet and now
Yahoogroups history, "trolling" has a similar
history. Therefore I would propose a narrow definition:

Trolling in our Tuning group, when used in its
usual negative sense, shall consist only in the
following:

(a) Posting personally abusive messages directed at
other members with the intention of promoting
conflict or "flame wars";

(b) Posting messages purported to be from or
represent the views of other members with the
purpose of starting what might be called a
"catalytic flame war" (that is, for party A to
post in order to convince parties B and C that
they mutually loathe each other and should act
so as to engage in destructive conflict, often
with maximum harm to the group as a whole);

(c) Posting messages in order to win the trust of
one or more members, and then betraying that
trust by doing something on the group
calculated to hurt them, and often to disrupt
the group as a whole or shatter the mutual
trust that makes it possible. While this kind
of trolling is especially characteristic of
groups dealing with sensitive or private
personal issues, music is a very personal
thing, so I mention it; and

(d) Referring to another member as a "troll" --
unless the harmless and humorous sense of the
term is clear (see below) -- without good
reason to support a claim that the person is
intentionally doing (a), (b), or (c) above.

Another way of summing up the point here is to say that
mere posting on topics or theories or scales you find
uninteresting, even tediously so, or demonstrations of
what you may consider almost-but-not-quite-sublime
cluelessness, are not "trolling" in the above sense.

They may, however, approach unintentional exercises in
the ancient Usenet art of what I'll call "play-
trolling." Basically this means now and then engaging in
random acts of harmless cluelessness such as asking
comically absurd questions or offering strange remarks in
order to keep us all in practice when it comes to
responding with civility to equally curious questions or
remarks some hypothetical newcomer just might offer in
earnest. For example:

* "What is the Tuning group, and how much does it
cost to join?"

* "My theory of harmonic entropy tells me that
every note Bartok ever wrote was dissonant, and
will remain so in mappings to any circulating
12-note system -- except for the major sevenths
and minor seconds in `Major Sevenths, Minor
Seconds'." (Thanks to a famous post on
rec.music.theory here adapted to this list.)

I'm not suggesting that this kind of "play-trolling" or
xenodiscourse should become the norm for the group: a
little may go a long way. But compared to destructive
trolling as defined above, and including unwarranted
accusations of such trolling, a bit of harmless
absurdity or surrealism might be a lot healthier for
this group than exchanges of insults and accusations.

(5) SHOULD THIS EXPLETIVE BE DELETED? One cardinal rule
would be to avoid expletives, or even "innocent" words
that may look and sound like expletives, in situations
where the tone might be perceived as less than jovial
(which includes lots of situations on groups in
cyberspace without visual or aural cues and immediate
feedback to clarify intentions).

Thus there's a perfectly innocent term for a cetacean
respiratory passage or "nostril" that recently came up
here, and as applied figuratively to a human, properly
indicates one's mouth, especially when used for a large
quantity of speech. Personally I'd try to take it as a
compliment, since having one of my longer posts compared
to a whale song in a nasal register might be an overly
generous review. But people's anatomical imaginations
can take other directions, especially when the context
of the term doesn't seem so friendly or complimentary.

If I had my druthers, language here would remain
decorous, but I must confess to enjoying all of Chaucer
and Boccaccio as well as Marguerite of Navarre, and to
"eschewing censorship." An expletive now and then in
sheer exuberance or enthusiasm is harmless, but when
they're fired off in anger with another member as the
target, we're in the problem zone, and need to move out
of it decisively, starting now since yesterday is beyond
our power.

Please let me conclude by warmly thanking Carl for his services
and participation over many years; Ozan, for his scholarship and
wonderful posts on maqam music and much else, not to mention our
many offline dialogues in which he has proven a gifted teacher
and mentor; and all of us, for making this group possible, whose
future we hold in our hands as its cooperative co-facilitators.

Most respectively,

Margo Schulter
mschulter@...

Yes a big thank you to Carl for a job that required much.
I hope that he will continue sharing with his investigations

I would also like to say that i would fully support Margo being a Moderator without any reservation.
She strikes me as truly one of the most qualified person to be so.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Margo Schulter <mschulter@...> wrote:
>
> Hello, Ozan and Carl and all.
>
> First, Carl, please let me congratulate you on your years of
> service as moderator of our group, and wish you the best in your
> future endeavors on or off this list at the point where you do
> step down.
>
> Secondly, Carl and Ozan, thank you both warmly for our many
> spirited dialogues and exchanges of ideas, which I hope will
> continue, whatever our roles on this list.
>
> In recent days, as it has been revealed that Carl may not be too
> far from passing his moderatorial torch to others, there have
> been discussions about how this group should ideally be
> moderated, as well as proposals that I might take part in
> moderating it. Whether I have either adequate technical means or
> the right skills to become an official moderator -- presumably
> one of at least three, as I understand -- remains an open
> question.
>
> However, there's another office here that I share with Carl,
> Ozan, and all of you: facilitating the group and its smooth if
> often spirited operation. We are all facilitators -- for better,
> or for otherwise.
>
> As you have discussed, Carl, the office of moderator is a bit
> like that of a proverbial regal log: mostly deleting spam and so
> forth. However, a moderator -- and this is now my interpretation
> -- will tend to be viewed as Facilitator-in-Chief, setting the
> tone as to how others should facilitate. And since we are all
> facilitators, I would like to propose a few possible standards
> and guidelines.
>
> These are guidelines which I would try to follow and promote as a
> moderator, and I will try to follow and promote as one
> facilitator among many (a description fitting moderators as well
> as everyone else here).
>
> The keynote here, I think, is to promote melodic and harmonic
> empathy: a climate where all alternative styles, theories, and
> compositional or improvisational and other performance methods
> are warmly welcome. Since "microtonality" isn't a genre, but a
> dimension and technique of music, pluralism and diversity go with
> our territory, and we need to handle it amicably and gracefully.
>
> In that spirit, here are some of my ideas on guidelines:
>
> (1) ALL LEVELS WELCOME. The first hallmark of a truly
> academic outlook in the most positive sense is not
> merely the possession of knowledge and skills, and their
> increase by research and practice, but a willingness to
> share and transmit that knowledge and those skills: in
> other words, to teach. Receptiveness to beginners, and
> to "casual" or "curious" participants or visitors, is a
> mark of academic devotion as well as common decency.
>
> (2) MAINTAIN AT LEAST THE ILLUSION OF UNIVERSAL GOODWILL.
> Sometimes it may seem like a very bare and formal
> illusion, a mere suspension of disbelief, but acting as
> if universal goodwill prevailed here is one step toward
> bringing it about, or at least not moving us further
> from it! This may seem like maintaining a facade; but if
> we don't maintain it, our structure of solidarity which
> makes this group possible as a community will collapse,
> or at least become very unpleasant to inhabit.
>
> (3) SOMETIMES SILENCE IS PRECIOUS. If we really can't find a
> kind word to say about the topic of a thread, or a
> proposed theory, or a piece of music submitted here,
> then silence is the best policy! This isn't at all to
> exclude constructive criticism and even spirited debate
> of a mutually agreeable nature, but it is to exclude
> destructive criticism of other list members. Of course,
> a "kind word" can be combined with constructive
> criticisms or suggestions, but we need to be confident
> that they will be received as such. Otherwise, silence
> has the big advantage of saving bandwidth for
> constructive interactions that promote our community's
> well-being.
>
> (4) IF THIS BE TROLLING. A quirk of Anglo-American history
> is the concept of "treason" as a crime which in English
> law, despite the attempt in 1352 during the reign of
> King Edward III to limit its scope, could mean almost
> anything, with the United States Constitution thus
> declaring a narrow definition. In Usenet and now
> Yahoogroups history, "trolling" has a similar
> history. Therefore I would propose a narrow definition:
>
> Trolling in our Tuning group, when used in its
> usual negative sense, shall consist only in the
> following:
>
> (a) Posting personally abusive messages directed at
> other members with the intention of promoting
> conflict or "flame wars";
>
> (b) Posting messages purported to be from or
> represent the views of other members with the
> purpose of starting what might be called a
> "catalytic flame war" (that is, for party A to
> post in order to convince parties B and C that
> they mutually loathe each other and should act
> so as to engage in destructive conflict, often
> with maximum harm to the group as a whole);
>
> (c) Posting messages in order to win the trust of
> one or more members, and then betraying that
> trust by doing something on the group
> calculated to hurt them, and often to disrupt
> the group as a whole or shatter the mutual
> trust that makes it possible. While this kind
> of trolling is especially characteristic of
> groups dealing with sensitive or private
> personal issues, music is a very personal
> thing, so I mention it; and
>
> (d) Referring to another member as a "troll" --
> unless the harmless and humorous sense of the
> term is clear (see below) -- without good
> reason to support a claim that the person is
> intentionally doing (a), (b), or (c) above.
>
> Another way of summing up the point here is to say that
> mere posting on topics or theories or scales you find
> uninteresting, even tediously so, or demonstrations of
> what you may consider almost-but-not-quite-sublime
> cluelessness, are not "trolling" in the above sense.
>
> They may, however, approach unintentional exercises in
> the ancient Usenet art of what I'll call "play-
> trolling." Basically this means now and then engaging in
> random acts of harmless cluelessness such as asking
> comically absurd questions or offering strange remarks in
> order to keep us all in practice when it comes to
> responding with civility to equally curious questions or
> remarks some hypothetical newcomer just might offer in
> earnest. For example:
>
> * "What is the Tuning group, and how much does it
> cost to join?"
>
> * "My theory of harmonic entropy tells me that
> every note Bartok ever wrote was dissonant, and
> will remain so in mappings to any circulating
> 12-note system -- except for the major sevenths
> and minor seconds in `Major Sevenths, Minor
> Seconds'." (Thanks to a famous post on
> rec.music.theory here adapted to this list.)
>
> I'm not suggesting that this kind of "play-trolling" or
> xenodiscourse should become the norm for the group: a
> little may go a long way. But compared to destructive
> trolling as defined above, and including unwarranted
> accusations of such trolling, a bit of harmless
> absurdity or surrealism might be a lot healthier for
> this group than exchanges of insults and accusations.
>
> (5) SHOULD THIS EXPLETIVE BE DELETED? One cardinal rule
> would be to avoid expletives, or even "innocent" words
> that may look and sound like expletives, in situations
> where the tone might be perceived as less than jovial
> (which includes lots of situations on groups in
> cyberspace without visual or aural cues and immediate
> feedback to clarify intentions).
>
> Thus there's a perfectly innocent term for a cetacean
> respiratory passage or "nostril" that recently came up
> here, and as applied figuratively to a human, properly
> indicates one's mouth, especially when used for a large
> quantity of speech. Personally I'd try to take it as a
> compliment, since having one of my longer posts compared
> to a whale song in a nasal register might be an overly
> generous review. But people's anatomical imaginations
> can take other directions, especially when the context
> of the term doesn't seem so friendly or complimentary.
>
> If I had my druthers, language here would remain
> decorous, but I must confess to enjoying all of Chaucer
> and Boccaccio as well as Marguerite of Navarre, and to
> "eschewing censorship." An expletive now and then in
> sheer exuberance or enthusiasm is harmless, but when
> they're fired off in anger with another member as the
> target, we're in the problem zone, and need to move out
> of it decisively, starting now since yesterday is beyond
> our power.
>
> Please let me conclude by warmly thanking Carl for his services
> and participation over many years; Ozan, for his scholarship and
> wonderful posts on maqam music and much else, not to mention our
> many offline dialogues in which he has proven a gifted teacher
> and mentor; and all of us, for making this group possible, whose
> future we hold in our hands as its cooperative co-facilitators.
>
> Most respectively,
>
> Margo Schulter
> mschulter@...
>

Bravo, Margo. Well said!

-Igs

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Margo Schulter <mschulter@...> wrote:
>
> Hello, Ozan and Carl and all.
>
> First, Carl, please let me congratulate you on your years of
> service as moderator of our group, and wish you the best in your
> future endeavors on or off this list at the point where you do
> step down.
>
> Secondly, Carl and Ozan, thank you both warmly for our many
> spirited dialogues and exchanges of ideas, which I hope will
> continue, whatever our roles on this list.
>
> In recent days, as it has been revealed that Carl may not be too
> far from passing his moderatorial torch to others, there have
> been discussions about how this group should ideally be
> moderated, as well as proposals that I might take part in
> moderating it. Whether I have either adequate technical means or
> the right skills to become an official moderator -- presumably
> one of at least three, as I understand -- remains an open
> question.
>
> However, there's another office here that I share with Carl,
> Ozan, and all of you: facilitating the group and its smooth if
> often spirited operation. We are all facilitators -- for better,
> or for otherwise.
>
> As you have discussed, Carl, the office of moderator is a bit
> like that of a proverbial regal log: mostly deleting spam and so
> forth. However, a moderator -- and this is now my interpretation
> -- will tend to be viewed as Facilitator-in-Chief, setting the
> tone as to how others should facilitate. And since we are all
> facilitators, I would like to propose a few possible standards
> and guidelines.
>
> These are guidelines which I would try to follow and promote as a
> moderator, and I will try to follow and promote as one
> facilitator among many (a description fitting moderators as well
> as everyone else here).
>
> The keynote here, I think, is to promote melodic and harmonic
> empathy: a climate where all alternative styles, theories, and
> compositional or improvisational and other performance methods
> are warmly welcome. Since "microtonality" isn't a genre, but a
> dimension and technique of music, pluralism and diversity go with
> our territory, and we need to handle it amicably and gracefully.
>
> In that spirit, here are some of my ideas on guidelines:
>
> (1) ALL LEVELS WELCOME. The first hallmark of a truly
> academic outlook in the most positive sense is not
> merely the possession of knowledge and skills, and their
> increase by research and practice, but a willingness to
> share and transmit that knowledge and those skills: in
> other words, to teach. Receptiveness to beginners, and
> to "casual" or "curious" participants or visitors, is a
> mark of academic devotion as well as common decency.
>
> (2) MAINTAIN AT LEAST THE ILLUSION OF UNIVERSAL GOODWILL.
> Sometimes it may seem like a very bare and formal
> illusion, a mere suspension of disbelief, but acting as
> if universal goodwill prevailed here is one step toward
> bringing it about, or at least not moving us further
> from it! This may seem like maintaining a facade; but if
> we don't maintain it, our structure of solidarity which
> makes this group possible as a community will collapse,
> or at least become very unpleasant to inhabit.
>
> (3) SOMETIMES SILENCE IS PRECIOUS. If we really can't find a
> kind word to say about the topic of a thread, or a
> proposed theory, or a piece of music submitted here,
> then silence is the best policy! This isn't at all to
> exclude constructive criticism and even spirited debate
> of a mutually agreeable nature, but it is to exclude
> destructive criticism of other list members. Of course,
> a "kind word" can be combined with constructive
> criticisms or suggestions, but we need to be confident
> that they will be received as such. Otherwise, silence
> has the big advantage of saving bandwidth for
> constructive interactions that promote our community's
> well-being.
>
> (4) IF THIS BE TROLLING. A quirk of Anglo-American history
> is the concept of "treason" as a crime which in English
> law, despite the attempt in 1352 during the reign of
> King Edward III to limit its scope, could mean almost
> anything, with the United States Constitution thus
> declaring a narrow definition. In Usenet and now
> Yahoogroups history, "trolling" has a similar
> history. Therefore I would propose a narrow definition:
>
> Trolling in our Tuning group, when used in its
> usual negative sense, shall consist only in the
> following:
>
> (a) Posting personally abusive messages directed at
> other members with the intention of promoting
> conflict or "flame wars";
>
> (b) Posting messages purported to be from or
> represent the views of other members with the
> purpose of starting what might be called a
> "catalytic flame war" (that is, for party A to
> post in order to convince parties B and C that
> they mutually loathe each other and should act
> so as to engage in destructive conflict, often
> with maximum harm to the group as a whole);
>
> (c) Posting messages in order to win the trust of
> one or more members, and then betraying that
> trust by doing something on the group
> calculated to hurt them, and often to disrupt
> the group as a whole or shatter the mutual
> trust that makes it possible. While this kind
> of trolling is especially characteristic of
> groups dealing with sensitive or private
> personal issues, music is a very personal
> thing, so I mention it; and
>
> (d) Referring to another member as a "troll" --
> unless the harmless and humorous sense of the
> term is clear (see below) -- without good
> reason to support a claim that the person is
> intentionally doing (a), (b), or (c) above.
>
> Another way of summing up the point here is to say that
> mere posting on topics or theories or scales you find
> uninteresting, even tediously so, or demonstrations of
> what you may consider almost-but-not-quite-sublime
> cluelessness, are not "trolling" in the above sense.
>
> They may, however, approach unintentional exercises in
> the ancient Usenet art of what I'll call "play-
> trolling." Basically this means now and then engaging in
> random acts of harmless cluelessness such as asking
> comically absurd questions or offering strange remarks in
> order to keep us all in practice when it comes to
> responding with civility to equally curious questions or
> remarks some hypothetical newcomer just might offer in
> earnest. For example:
>
> * "What is the Tuning group, and how much does it
> cost to join?"
>
> * "My theory of harmonic entropy tells me that
> every note Bartok ever wrote was dissonant, and
> will remain so in mappings to any circulating
> 12-note system -- except for the major sevenths
> and minor seconds in `Major Sevenths, Minor
> Seconds'." (Thanks to a famous post on
> rec.music.theory here adapted to this list.)
>
> I'm not suggesting that this kind of "play-trolling" or
> xenodiscourse should become the norm for the group: a
> little may go a long way. But compared to destructive
> trolling as defined above, and including unwarranted
> accusations of such trolling, a bit of harmless
> absurdity or surrealism might be a lot healthier for
> this group than exchanges of insults and accusations.
>
> (5) SHOULD THIS EXPLETIVE BE DELETED? One cardinal rule
> would be to avoid expletives, or even "innocent" words
> that may look and sound like expletives, in situations
> where the tone might be perceived as less than jovial
> (which includes lots of situations on groups in
> cyberspace without visual or aural cues and immediate
> feedback to clarify intentions).
>
> Thus there's a perfectly innocent term for a cetacean
> respiratory passage or "nostril" that recently came up
> here, and as applied figuratively to a human, properly
> indicates one's mouth, especially when used for a large
> quantity of speech. Personally I'd try to take it as a
> compliment, since having one of my longer posts compared
> to a whale song in a nasal register might be an overly
> generous review. But people's anatomical imaginations
> can take other directions, especially when the context
> of the term doesn't seem so friendly or complimentary.
>
> If I had my druthers, language here would remain
> decorous, but I must confess to enjoying all of Chaucer
> and Boccaccio as well as Marguerite of Navarre, and to
> "eschewing censorship." An expletive now and then in
> sheer exuberance or enthusiasm is harmless, but when
> they're fired off in anger with another member as the
> target, we're in the problem zone, and need to move out
> of it decisively, starting now since yesterday is beyond
> our power.
>
> Please let me conclude by warmly thanking Carl for his services
> and participation over many years; Ozan, for his scholarship and
> wonderful posts on maqam music and much else, not to mention our
> many offline dialogues in which he has proven a gifted teacher
> and mentor; and all of us, for making this group possible, whose
> future we hold in our hands as its cooperative co-facilitators.
>
> Most respectively,
>
> Margo Schulter
> mschulter@...
>

An excellent overview dear Margo. This course shall surely remind us of the civilities neglected and elevate us all to a higher level of cooperation and productivity.

Much appreciatively,
Oz.

--

✩ ✩ ✩
www.ozanyarman.com

Margo Schulter wrote:
> Hello, Ozan and Carl and all.
>
> First, Carl, please let me congratulate you on your years of
> service as moderator of our group, and wish you the best in your
> future endeavors on or off this list at the point where you do
> step down.
>
> Secondly, Carl and Ozan, thank you both warmly for our many
> spirited dialogues and exchanges of ideas, which I hope will
> continue, whatever our roles on this list.
>
> In recent days, as it has been revealed that Carl may not be too
> far from passing his moderatorial torch to others, there have
> been discussions about how this group should ideally be
> moderated, as well as proposals that I might take part in
> moderating it. Whether I have either adequate technical means or
> the right skills to become an official moderator -- presumably
> one of at least three, as I understand -- remains an open
> question.
>
> However, there's another office here that I share with Carl,
> Ozan, and all of you: facilitating the group and its smooth if
> often spirited operation. We are all facilitators -- for better,
> or for otherwise.
>
> As you have discussed, Carl, the office of moderator is a bit
> like that of a proverbial regal log: mostly deleting spam and so
> forth. However, a moderator -- and this is now my interpretation
> -- will tend to be viewed as Facilitator-in-Chief, setting the
> tone as to how others should facilitate. And since we are all
> facilitators, I would like to propose a few possible standards
> and guidelines.
>
> These are guidelines which I would try to follow and promote as a
> moderator, and I will try to follow and promote as one
> facilitator among many (a description fitting moderators as well
> as everyone else here).
>
> The keynote here, I think, is to promote melodic and harmonic
> empathy: a climate where all alternative styles, theories, and
> compositional or improvisational and other performance methods
> are warmly welcome. Since "microtonality" isn't a genre, but a
> dimension and technique of music, pluralism and diversity go with
> our territory, and we need to handle it amicably and gracefully.
>
> In that spirit, here are some of my ideas on guidelines:
>
> (1) ALL LEVELS WELCOME. The first hallmark of a truly
> academic outlook in the most positive sense is not
> merely the possession of knowledge and skills, and their
> increase by research and practice, but a willingness to
> share and transmit that knowledge and those skills: in
> other words, to teach. Receptiveness to beginners, and
> to "casual" or "curious" participants or visitors, is a
> mark of academic devotion as well as common decency.
>
> (2) MAINTAIN AT LEAST THE ILLUSION OF UNIVERSAL GOODWILL.
> Sometimes it may seem like a very bare and formal
> illusion, a mere suspension of disbelief, but acting as
> if universal goodwill prevailed here is one step toward
> bringing it about, or at least not moving us further
> from it! This may seem like maintaining a facade; but if
> we don't maintain it, our structure of solidarity which
> makes this group possible as a community will collapse,
> or at least become very unpleasant to inhabit.
>
> (3) SOMETIMES SILENCE IS PRECIOUS. If we really can't find a
> kind word to say about the topic of a thread, or a
> proposed theory, or a piece of music submitted here,
> then silence is the best policy! This isn't at all to
> exclude constructive criticism and even spirited debate
> of a mutually agreeable nature, but it is to exclude
> destructive criticism of other list members. Of course,
> a "kind word" can be combined with constructive
> criticisms or suggestions, but we need to be confident
> that they will be received as such. Otherwise, silence
> has the big advantage of saving bandwidth for
> constructive interactions that promote our community's
> well-being.
>
> (4) IF THIS BE TROLLING. A quirk of Anglo-American history
> is the concept of "treason" as a crime which in English
> law, despite the attempt in 1352 during the reign of
> King Edward III to limit its scope, could mean almost
> anything, with the United States Constitution thus
> declaring a narrow definition. In Usenet and now
> Yahoogroups history, "trolling" has a similar
> history. Therefore I would propose a narrow definition:
>
> Trolling in our Tuning group, when used in its
> usual negative sense, shall consist only in the
> following:
>
> (a) Posting personally abusive messages directed at
> other members with the intention of promoting
> conflict or "flame wars";
>
> (b) Posting messages purported to be from or
> represent the views of other members with the
> purpose of starting what might be called a
> "catalytic flame war" (that is, for party A to
> post in order to convince parties B and C that
> they mutually loathe each other and should act
> so as to engage in destructive conflict, often
> with maximum harm to the group as a whole);
>
> (c) Posting messages in order to win the trust of
> one or more members, and then betraying that
> trust by doing something on the group
> calculated to hurt them, and often to disrupt
> the group as a whole or shatter the mutual
> trust that makes it possible. While this kind
> of trolling is especially characteristic of
> groups dealing with sensitive or private
> personal issues, music is a very personal
> thing, so I mention it; and
>
> (d) Referring to another member as a "troll" --
> unless the harmless and humorous sense of the
> term is clear (see below) -- without good
> reason to support a claim that the person is
> intentionally doing (a), (b), or (c) above.
>
> Another way of summing up the point here is to say that
> mere posting on topics or theories or scales you find
> uninteresting, even tediously so, or demonstrations of
> what you may consider almost-but-not-quite-sublime
> cluelessness, are not "trolling" in the above sense.
>
> They may, however, approach unintentional exercises in
> the ancient Usenet art of what I'll call "play-
> trolling." Basically this means now and then engaging in
> random acts of harmless cluelessness such as asking
> comically absurd questions or offering strange remarks in
> order to keep us all in practice when it comes to
> responding with civility to equally curious questions or
> remarks some hypothetical newcomer just might offer in
> earnest. For example:
>
> * "What is the Tuning group, and how much does it
> cost to join?"
>
> * "My theory of harmonic entropy tells me that
> every note Bartok ever wrote was dissonant, and
> will remain so in mappings to any circulating
> 12-note system -- except for the major sevenths
> and minor seconds in `Major Sevenths, Minor
> Seconds'." (Thanks to a famous post on
> rec.music.theory here adapted to this list.)
>
> I'm not suggesting that this kind of "play-trolling" or
> xenodiscourse should become the norm for the group: a
> little may go a long way. But compared to destructive
> trolling as defined above, and including unwarranted
> accusations of such trolling, a bit of harmless
> absurdity or surrealism might be a lot healthier for
> this group than exchanges of insults and accusations.
>
> (5) SHOULD THIS EXPLETIVE BE DELETED? One cardinal rule
> would be to avoid expletives, or even "innocent" words
> that may look and sound like expletives, in situations
> where the tone might be perceived as less than jovial
> (which includes lots of situations on groups in
> cyberspace without visual or aural cues and immediate
> feedback to clarify intentions).
>
> Thus there's a perfectly innocent term for a cetacean
> respiratory passage or "nostril" that recently came up
> here, and as applied figuratively to a human, properly
> indicates one's mouth, especially when used for a large
> quantity of speech. Personally I'd try to take it as a
> compliment, since having one of my longer posts compared
> to a whale song in a nasal register might be an overly
> generous review. But people's anatomical imaginations
> can take other directions, especially when the context
> of the term doesn't seem so friendly or complimentary.
>
> If I had my druthers, language here would remain
> decorous, but I must confess to enjoying all of Chaucer
> and Boccaccio as well as Marguerite of Navarre, and to
> "eschewing censorship." An expletive now and then in
> sheer exuberance or enthusiasm is harmless, but when
> they're fired off in anger with another member as the
> target, we're in the problem zone, and need to move out
> of it decisively, starting now since yesterday is beyond
> our power.
>
> Please let me conclude by warmly thanking Carl for his services
> and participation over many years; Ozan, for his scholarship and
> wonderful posts on maqam music and much else, not to mention our
> many offline dialogues in which he has proven a gifted teacher
> and mentor; and all of us, for making this group possible, whose
> future we hold in our hands as its cooperative co-facilitators.
>
> Most respectively,
>
> Margo Schulter
> mschulter@...
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Hello Margo,

Very sensible code of conduct and I welcome your guidance in the days ahead.

I am very glad to see some resolution to this issue because I have
been friends with both Carl and Ozan and this made for a difficult
situation.

Chris

On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Margo Schulter <mschulter@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello, Ozan and Carl and all.
>
> First, Carl, please let me congratulate you on your years of
> service as moderator of our group, and wish you the best in your
> future endeavors on or off this list at the point where you do
> step down.
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Margo,
>
> Very sensible code of conduct and I welcome your guidance
> in the days ahead.

As already explained, my position has already been offered
to, and accepted by, someone else. If Gene or David would
like to pass the torch to Margo, that's their decision.

-Carl

I wrote:
> As already explained, my position has already been offered
> to, and accepted by, someone else. If Gene or David would
> like to pass the torch to Margo, that's their decision.

In fact as I think I mentioned, I'd already chosen this
person before Ozan's recent hysterics began.

-Carl

I can no longer keep up.

Honestly, my real life became literally crazy the past two weeks. Just one
of the many occurrence was landing a really nice job as a validation
specialist - they bent over backwards to land me - show up on Monday and the
badge machine wasn't working - can't get me past security - by Wednesday I
received a call that the job had been eliminated - and a call on Thursday
that I was receiving severance and COBRA if I wanted. Today I received a
call from a district manager apologizing and saying they would hire me in
the future if I'd consider it.

And this is only one thing. There is a lot more.

Chris

On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Carl Lumma <carl@...> wrote:

>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com <tuning%40yahoogroups.com>, Chris Vaisvil
> <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Margo,
> >
> > Very sensible code of conduct and I welcome your guidance
> > in the days ahead.
>
> As already explained, my position has already been offered
> to, and accepted by, someone else. If Gene or David would
> like to pass the torch to Margo, that's their decision.
>
> -Carl
>
>
>

On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:53 PM, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> I can no longer keep up.
>
> Honestly, my real life became literally crazy the past two weeks. Just one of the many occurrence was landing a really nice job as a validation specialist - they bent over backwards to land me - show up on Monday and the badge machine wasn't working - can't get me past security - by Wednesday I received a call that the job had been eliminated - and a call on Thursday that I was receiving severance and COBRA if I wanted. Today I received a call from a district manager apologizing and saying they would hire me in the future if I'd consider it.
>
> And this is only one thing. There is a lot more.

Whoa man, I'm sorry to hear that.

I don't think there ever was a time in my life when I was able to
really keep up with the tuning list. Just times when my social life
went to hell in the meantime, and times when it didn't. Yep, sounds
about right.

-Mike

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> I can no longer keep up.

Who can? I've got a backlog of messages here with hours
of reading and study required. And it looks like we're entering
contract on a house tonight or tomorrow morning. And Yahoo's
been delaying messages again, and I woke up with the sore throat
from Hades this morning, and...

-Carl

So much for my despotic "hysteria".

Oz.

--

✩ ✩ ✩
www.ozanyarman.com

Carl Lumma wrote:
> I wrote:
>> As already explained, my position has already been offered
>> to, and accepted by, someone else. If Gene or David would
>> like to pass the torch to Margo, that's their decision.
>
> In fact as I think I mentioned, I'd already chosen this
> person before Ozan's recent hysterics began.
>
> -Carl
>
>
>

Kraig>"I would also like to say that i would fully support Margo being a
Moderator without any reservation.
She strikes me as truly one of the most qualified person to be so."

Same goes for me. Margo seems to have the academic knowledge to keep up
with most anyone on the list, yet also the sort of optimism and humanitarianism
to encourage people to do their best far as productivity rather than censor each
other or themselves out for not "being in the top 10". Her recent messages seem
to show she has both fair footing and equal respect for both Western and Middle
Eastern theories as well...other plus as many recent flaming going on has been
based "which of the two is more valid" and "both are quite valid!" seems to be a
good answer.