Diatonic?

> With regard to your V-IV-I progression, it seems like you're proposing a
> "diatonic" scale of
>
> 1/1 9/8 7/6 4/3 3/2 14/9 7/4 (2/1)

Paul, I don't believe this is the best meaning of "diatonic." (Perhaps this
is the beginning of a new thread.) Minor is not the opposite of major, in
the tonal sense.

When there was an enharmonic in early Hellenic times, there were 3
possibilities of genus. When diatonic remained, along with the minor third
quality of the chromatic genus, a sense of duality emerged (with chromatic
now relegated to the mere succession of scale dieses).

Major has 7 notes for its diatonic scale. Minor has 9, for melodic minor is
the basis for J.S. Bach, the model on which music is taught in the
university. The meaning of color (chroma) is based on this property, and by
the minor third.

Incidentally, Werckmeister III is considered the only temperament by
Werckmeister for fully "chromatic" music (Rasch).

Johnny Reinhard

>From: Afmmjr@aol.com
>
>> With regard to your V-IV-I progression, it seems like you're proposing a
>> "diatonic" scale of
>>
>> 1/1 9/8 7/6 4/3 3/2 14/9 7/4 (2/1)
>
>Paul, I don't believe this is the best meaning of "diatonic." (Perhaps this
>is the beginning of a new thread.)

But I knew exactly what he meant. :) In my own notes I refer
to the base or core scale as the "diatonic" version of the system I'm
working in. I can't think of a better name for it, at least in a
heptatonic system where remapping C-c will stave off (sorry) a
blinding field of accidentals.

This is a field full of incompatible terminologies. Is there
some other clear term for the concept called "diatonic" above?

--
wm

Johnny Reinhard posted:
>
> Paul, I don't believe this is the best meaning of "diatonic." (Perhaps this
> is the beginning of a new thread.) Minor is not the opposite of major, in
> the tonal sense.
>
> When there was an enharmonic in early Hellenic times, there were 3
> possibilities of genus. When diatonic remained, along with the minor third
> quality of the chromatic genus, a sense of duality emerged (with chromatic
> now relegated to the mere succession of scale dieses).
>
> Major has 7 notes for its diatonic scale. Minor has 9, for melodic minor is
> the basis for J.S. Bach, the model on which music is taught in the
> university. The meaning of color (chroma) is based on this property, and by
> the minor third.
>
> Incidentally, Werckmeister III is considered the only temperament by
> Werckmeister for fully "chromatic" music (Rasch).

Johnny, if you think about it, the term "diatonic" (consisting of whole
steps and half steps) is really a 12-tET concept. In this sense, minor is
indeed an "alternative" to the major mode.

Both modes are dependent on the dominant seventh chord for participation in
the major/minor system (as opposed to "modal music") The only real
difference between major and minor modes is that scale steps 3 and 6 are
lowered, modifying tonic and subdominant harmonies. Otherwise all functions
are identical (considering the conventional avoidance of awkward melodies
and chords created by the modifications).

The business of "three minor scales" is basically nonsense that was invented
by music educators who chose to "teach" melody before harmony. This
prevented countless music students (many of whom are now teachers) from
realizing that the reason for choosing flat 6 & 7 or natural 6 & 7 had
nothing to do with going up or down, but rather with what harmony is
prevailing. The dominant chord requires the leading tone while tonic and
subdominant does not.

Incidentally, this minor scale nonsense is the main reason I decided to
write "Lies My Music Teacher Told Me." This and more than a dozen other
"Lies" are discussed there.

Since I have unsubscribed from the List, you will have to email me directly
if you care to discuss this further.

Jerry

Hello:

I think your last posting to the tuning list was not quite right; in fact it may qualify for one of your "lies"!

<Johnny, if you think about it, the term "diatonic" (consisting of whole
<steps and half steps) is really a 12-tET concept.

"Diatonic" was one of the three classical Greek and Hellenistic genera for the division of a tetrachord, and the only of the three to survive, in scalar form with a disjunction between the tetrachords into medieval European music. It consists of two intervals of one tone (Gk. _tonoi_, ranging in size from 10/9 to 8/7, possibly as wide as 7/6 (Aristoxenus)) and the interval which remains when two tones are subtracted from a perfect fourth, a semitone. The 12-tet "lie" of modern music theory, if you will, is that a tone divides equally into two semitones. Of course there is no proportion in just intonation which will do that.

<Both modes are dependent on the dominant seventh chord for participation in
<the major/minor system (as opposed to "modal music")

One can find and compose for oneself perfectly acceptable tonal compositions in Major or minor without sevenths in the dominant chords. American vernacular harmony may indeed differ on this point, but in parts of that repertoire sevenths sometimes function classically, as dissonances to be resolved, and sometimes as ordinary chord members without dissonance treatment. However it is striking that one may also play a good deal of vernacular repertoire with all of the sevenths dropped (indeed, some of the earliest recorded examples of 12-bar blues consist only of simple major triads).

<The business of "three minor scales" is basically nonsense that was invented
<by music educators who chose to "teach" melody before harmony. This
<prevented countless music students (many of whom are now teachers) from
<realizing that the reason for choosing flat 6 & 7 or natural 6 & 7 had
<nothing to do with going up or down, but rather with what harmony is
<prevailing. The dominant chord requires the leading tone while tonic and
<subdominant does not.

While I agree that music educators do turn a generalization about scalar forms into an unnecessary rule, teaching melody before harmony is certainly not to be criticized. The idea of making a chorale harmonization without knowing the chorale melody inside and out, and without trying to make the individual lines as melodically attractive as possible is both unmusical and ahistorical. Classically, one mastered counterpoint before learning harmony, that is to say, figured bass; even in the chaconne form, with a fixed harmonic progression, the rules of contrapuntal voice leading had precedence over consistent restatements of the harmony. Your last statements are unsustainable -- melodies have generally preceded their harmonization. (And before the common practice era, _ficta_ was determined on melodic criteria, often with remarkable harmonic results). Again, there may be exceptions to this in American vernacular practice, but you offer no qualification on this point.

Dr. Daniel Wolf
djwolf@snafu.de
http://home.snafu.de/djwolf/