Math Question

Okay, here's a question for the mathematicians here. I want to give "concordance scores" to all the dyads in each EDO, and I want to use Harmonic Entropy to do it since it seems like the best (only?) way to do this for tempered intervals. However, the values that harmonic entropy gives have a very small range to them, from about 2.5 to about 4.9. Most of the pitch spectrum comes nowhere near 2.5 (which is the approximate value of a unison), or even near 3.3 (the approximate value of an octave). So it's actually kind of hard to tell, just by looking at H.E. values, how concordant an interval is likely to be. I mean, the difference in h.e. between a 5/4 and a 51-cent quartertone is only about 0.3, but between 5/4 and 2/1 it's 1.2, which makes it look like a pure 5/4 is only marginally more concordant than a quartertone and not NEARLY as concordant as an octave. Is there any transformation I could apply to harmonic entropy--or just to a table of harmonic entropy values--that would spit out values that give a clearer picture of concordance? I.e. that puts 2/1, 3/2, 4/3, 5/4 etc. fairly close together and puts the 51-cent quartertone far away from them? I have an excel spreadsheet that Carl sent me with Paul's most recent H.E. values for intervals in 1-cent increments between 1 and 2400 cents. If there's an array function I could just paste into it or something, that would be SO AWESOME.

Thanks!

-Igs

Igs,

What I'd do the calculate dyadic concordance is
A) Round the dyad to the lowest limit dyad within about +/- 7 cents of it IE
"virtually indistinguishable from it". This can be found pretty well using

http://www.mindspring.com/~alanh/fracs.html
...which lists many (nearby) estimations of any fraction.

B) Take the rounded dyad's odd-limit as part of the rating (the lower the
odd-limit the lower the "dissonance rating")
C) If the dyad is closer than 5/4 or so, add a few dissonance points for
"root-tone critical band violation" based on the height of the dyad on Sethares'
dissonance curve. Note that anything under 11/10 or so is going to take a
pretty big hit for critical band dissonance.

...and, optionally...
D) Subtract or add a few "points" from the dissonance rating based on how the
rounded dyad fits the entropy curve

I am thinking the effect of Harmonic Entropy, Tenney height, and related
periodicity can generally be pretty well summarized by odd-limit of the
lowest-limit ratio within about 7 cents of a dyad.
The problem I see in using harmonic entropy alone is that (as you seem to
indirectly imply as well) some dyads barely register differently on the HE curve
if they aren't either peaks of minimums in the curve. 20/11 and 11/6 may have
very similar values on the HE curve...but try listening to them and I'm betting
your ear will let you know just how big a difference there can be between two
slightly different "off" notes.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "cityoftheasleep" <igliashon@...> wrote:
>
> ... the values that harmonic entropy gives have a very small range to them, from about 2.5 to about 4.9. [etc] makes it look like a pure 5/4 is only marginally more concordant than a quartertone and not NEARLY as concordant as an octave. Is there any transformation ...

Igs,
Mathematically speaking (and ignoring what it means, if anything):

to address the "range" problem (and at the same time reverse the sense of the values), I would suggest simply:
100 * (4.9 - h(x)) / (4.9 - 2.5)

(but use the precise values of the smallest and largest values of h(x), instead of 2.5 and 4.9)
This would make the value 100 for 1/1, approx 63 for 2/1, approx 14 for 5/4, and 0 for the 51 cents point.

However I think you also want to have more discrimination amongst the low values, so you could try:
100 * (exp(4.9) - exp(h(x))) / (exp(4.9) - exp(2.5))

where exp() is the "e to the power of" function.

This is a quick response; I think we could do even better by using some ogive with appropriate parameters.
Steve M.

Hi Igs,

> I mean, the difference in h.e. between a 5/4 and a 51-cent
> quartertone is only about 0.3, but between 5/4 and 2/1 it's
> 1.2, which makes it look like a pure 5/4 is only marginally
> more concordant than a quartertone and not NEARLY as concordant
> as an octave.

This has been noticed. One solution is just to take the
exponential of harmonic entropy:

/tuning/files/PaulErlich/tenney/te01_13p2877.jpg

A similar result is obtained by including unreduced fractions
(not in lowest terms) in the harmonic entropy calculation:

/tuning/files/dyadic/t3_01_13p2877.jpg

-Carl

> I mean, the difference in h.e. between a 5/4 and a 51-cent
> quartertone is only about 0.3, but between 5/4 and 2/1 it's
> 1.2, which makes it look like a pure 5/4 is only marginally
> more concordant than a quartertone and not NEARLY as concordant
> as an octave.

As mentioned before...
I have found that, when "ducking" under about 5/4, critical band dissonance
becomes the most important theory...especially when it comes to the curve under
9/8 or so. Use the curve instead of HE for those very close values and you'll
find, for example, 10/9 being rated at over 1 1/2 times as dissonant as
5/4...which, at least to me, makes a whole lot more sense.

Far as the octave being rated absurdly higher than anything else so far as
consonance...I think it's a problem with virtually all consonance theories. To
me anything simpler than 5/4 starts experiencing "diminishing marginal returns"
so far as consonance and by around 4/3 the diminishing value is very strong and
between 3/2 and 2/1 you can't even really tell a difference so far as
consonance. Meanwhile most theories seem to show consonance exponentially
rising under 5/4 or so...minus the theory of critical band dissonance.

To me, Harmonic Entropy seems to have more value in analyzing near-mid-limit
dyads that are further apart. But even then it seems to miss things like the
significant audible dissonance difference between 20/11 vs. 11/6 or between 9/7
and 19/15...for example.
Almost anything above 7-limit seems to get jumbled together under HE as if
your ear can't tell the difference between any of it. Which I think is fairly
absurd (IE of course my ear can tell a very significant difference between the
consonance of a 22/15 'diminished' 5th vs. a 40/27 outright wolf fifth).

http://sonic-arts.org/td/erlich/entropy.htm

This article about Harmonic Entropy states:

>"It is often possible for the brain to look for periodicities among some
>components of the signal and dismiss the rest as "noise." This is why the root
>of a major triad does not appear to change when the third is decreased from 5/4
>through 11/9 to 6/5 and the chord becomes a minor triad; although the minor
>triad can be understood as 10:12:15, these numbers are already too high for the
>entropy of the entire signal to be low enough to compete with the low entropy of
>the perfect fifth alone (10:15 = 2:3); even the major third alone (12:15 = 4:5)
>is stronger and can dominate if the "third" is in the bass."

This seems to indicate a key to unlocking triadic harmonic entropy is to give
more weight to the lower limit dyads (at least when it comes to determining
'rootness' ".

The article also says:
Monzo>"A note relating harmonic entropy to my concept of finity: more complex
ratios tend to be understood as simpler ones."
This seems to argue toward my idea of doing analysis of temperament by
rounding them to the lowest limit possible nearby JI ratios within 7 cents or
so.

Thoughts?

Thanks, Steve! This does the trick quite nicely. The latter formulation gives scores of 100 to a unison, about 85 to an octave, about and about 50 to a fifth. The major third is about 30, the minor third is about 26, and the quartertone is at a pretty solid 0. I think this is a pretty good and useful way to depict concordance. Thanks a bunch!

-Igs

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "martinsj013" <martinsj@...> wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "cityoftheasleep" <igliashon@> wrote:
> >
> > ... the values that harmonic entropy gives have a very small range to them, from about 2.5 to about 4.9. [etc] makes it look like a pure 5/4 is only marginally more concordant than a quartertone and not NEARLY as concordant as an octave. Is there any transformation ...
>
> Igs,
> Mathematically speaking (and ignoring what it means, if anything):
>
> to address the "range" problem (and at the same time reverse the sense of the values), I would suggest simply:
> 100 * (4.9 - h(x)) / (4.9 - 2.5)
>
> (but use the precise values of the smallest and largest values of h(x), instead of 2.5 and 4.9)
> This would make the value 100 for 1/1, approx 63 for 2/1, approx 14 for 5/4, and 0 for the 51 cents point.
>
> However I think you also want to have more discrimination amongst the low values, so you could try:
> 100 * (exp(4.9) - exp(h(x))) / (exp(4.9) - exp(2.5))
>
> where exp() is the "e to the power of" function.
>
> This is a quick response; I think we could do even better by using some ogive with appropriate parameters.
> Steve M.
>

To the tuning list,
This kind of comments fills a small part of my lack of information on music entropy since another entropy is studied in Thermodynamics. It is evident that most of you have deeply studied music and got a doctorate diplomaand confess that even the common subject of limits is for me another blank. BTW, one hour before studying a Mike Battaglia message, (I wrote "studying" and not "reading"), I take some pills which are vitamins for my neurons; Mike is now in Haiti I suppose.
I repeat, this kind of didactic messages is welcomed.

Thanks
Mario Pizarro
piagui@...
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 3:56 PM
Subject: [tuning] Triadic harmonic entropy and 'rootedness'

http://sonic-arts.org/td/erlich/entropy.htm

This article about Harmonic Entropy states:

>"It is often possible for the brain to look for periodicities among some components of the signal and dismiss the rest as "noise." This is why the root of a major triad does not appear to change when the third is decreased from 5/4 through 11/9 to 6/5 and the chord becomes a minor triad; although the minor triad can be understood as 10:12:15, these numbers are already too high for the entropy of the entire signal to be low enough to compete with the low entropy of the perfect fifth alone (10:15 = 2:3); even the major third alone (12:15 = 4:5) is stronger and can dominate if the "third" is in the bass."

This seems to indicate a key to unlocking triadic harmonic entropy is to give more weight to the lower limit dyads (at least when it comes to determining 'rootness' ".

The article also says:
Monzo>"A note relating harmonic entropy to my concept of finity: more complex ratios tend to be understood as simpler ones."
This seems to argue toward my idea of doing analysis of temperament by rounding them to the lowest limit possible nearby JI ratios within 7 cents or so.

Thoughts?

__________ Información de ESET NOD32 Antivirus, versión de la base de firmas de virus 5390 (20100823) __________

ESET NOD32 Antivirus ha comprobado este mensaje.

http://www.eset.com

__________ Información de ESET NOD32 Antivirus, versión de la base de firmas de virus 5391 (20100823) __________

ESET NOD32 Antivirus ha comprobado este mensaje.

http://www.eset.com

Mario Pizarro wrote:

> I repeat, this kind of didactic messages is welcomed.

Hi Mario,

Probably the best introduction to what we're talking about
here is to read the work of Paul Erlich:

http://lumma.org/tuning/erlich/

Especially, in the case of harmonic entropy, this article:

http://lumma.org/tuning/erlich/erlich-tFoT.pdf

and in the case of everything else, this paper:

http://lumma.org/tuning/erlich/erlich-tFoT.pdf

Best,

-Carl

Mario!

I wrote:

> Especially, in the case of harmonic entropy, this article:
>
> http://lumma.org/tuning/erlich/erlich-tFoT.pdf
>
> and in the case of everything else, this paper:
>
> http://lumma.org/tuning/erlich/erlich-tFoT.pdf

Sorry, same link twice! The harmonic entropy article is:

http://www.soundofindia.com/showarticle.asp?in_article_id=1905806937

-Carl

Carl,

Thanks for the information.
Another point that I have to comment with all my respect to the list:
-- Thousands years ago the humans were satisfied with three tone scales; time, art and other factors made possible to arrive at the twelve tones in our era. Now the microtonality conception is the new voice. I listened more than ten microtonal pieces presented by their composers through youtube and saved all these works for being studied further. Despite I am not an academically formed musician but a guitarist that years ago was always ready to sing a serenade, something must be wrong with me because I disliked all those microtonal productions.
I hope that my opinion is not considered aggressive or a disrespectful viewpoint.

Thanks
Mario
August 26

----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Lumma" <carl@...>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 7:11 PM
Subject: [tuning] Re: Triadic harmonic entropy and 'rootedness'

> Mario Pizarro wrote:
>
>> I repeat, this kind of didactic messages is welcomed.
>
> Hi Mario,
>
> Probably the best introduction to what we're talking about
> here is to read the work of Paul Erlich:
>
> http://lumma.org/tuning/erlich/
>
> Especially, in the case of harmonic entropy, this article:
>
> http://lumma.org/tuning/erlich/erlich-tFoT.pdf
>
> and in the case of everything else, this paper:
>
> http://lumma.org/tuning/erlich/erlich-tFoT.pdf
>
> Best,
>
> -Carl
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> __________ Informaci�n de ESET NOD32 Antivirus, versi�n de la base de > firmas de virus 5391 (20100823) __________
>
> ESET NOD32 Antivirus ha comprobado este mensaje.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> __________ Informaci�n de ESET NOD32 Antivirus, versi�n de la base de firmas de virus 5400 (20100826) __________

ESET NOD32 Antivirus ha comprobado este mensaje.

http://www.eset.com

Hi Mario,

> Despite I am not an
> academically formed musician but a guitarist that years ago was
> always ready to sing a serenade, something must be wrong with
> me because I disliked all those microtonal productions.
> I hope that my opinion is not considered aggressive or a
> disrespectful viewpoint.

Not at all. Since anything from the entire spectrum of
pitch other than 12-tone equal temperament is considered
"microtonal" it is hardly a descriptive term! Here is my
list of favorite CDs:

http://lumma.org/music/theory/Top12MicrotonalAlbums.html

You can also try these mp3 files:

http://lumma.org/tuning/xenmusic/xenmusic.zip

(14 tracks zipped to ~ 60 MB. None are my work -- artist
and tuning information is given the ID3 tags.)

-Carl

Hi Mario,

Please let me comment on your observation.

I think it is up to the composer of microtonal music to write music
that is accessible to people like yourself, *if* the composer wishes
to do so.

However, consider that probably not all music in 12 equal appeals to
you to the same degree. This is also true with microtonal music.

I will say that in my experience there is music in 12 equal that for
instance throws so much dissonance at the listener that finding a
broad audience for such music is difficult to imagine - the same is
true for microtonal music - some microtonal pieces are writing more to
demonstrate microtonal theories and possibilities then to actually
express something or be an attempt at art. I think finding a broad
audience for that type of microtonal music probably just as difficult.
Another fact to keep in mind is that the community of microtonal
composers, on the whole, are exploring and finding their microtonal
voice. I expect the quality of *western* microtonal to increase over
time and more of it to be accessible to a broader audience.

So, I think there is nothing wrong with you. You just haven't found a
microtonal composer who appeals to you. I for one appreciate you
trying.

Chris

On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Mario Pizarro <piagui@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Carl,
>
> Thanks for the information.
> Another point that I have to comment with all my respect to the list:
> -- Thousands years ago the humans were satisfied with three tone scales;
> time, art and other factors made possible to arrive at the twelve tones in
> our era. Now the microtonality conception is the new voice. I listened more
> than ten microtonal pieces presented by their composers through youtube and
> saved all these works for being studied further. Despite I am not an
> academically formed musician but a guitarist that years ago was always ready
> to sing a serenade, something must be wrong with me because I disliked all
> those microtonal productions.
> I hope that my opinion is not considered aggressive or a disrespectful
> viewpoint.
>
> Thanks
> Mario
> August 26
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carl Lumma" <carl@...g>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 7:11 PM
> Subject: [tuning] Re: Triadic harmonic entropy and 'rootedness'
>
> > Mario Pizarro wrote:
> >
> >> I repeat, this kind of didactic messages is welcomed.
> >
> > Hi Mario,
> >
> > Probably the best introduction to what we're talking about
> > here is to read the work of Paul Erlich:
> >
> > http://lumma.org/tuning/erlich/
> >
> > Especially, in the case of harmonic entropy, this article:
> >
> > http://lumma.org/tuning/erlich/erlich-tFoT.pdf
> >
> > and in the case of everything else, this paper:
> >
> > http://lumma.org/tuning/erlich/erlich-tFoT.pdf
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > -Carl
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
> > of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
> > tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> > tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
> > tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
> > tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
> > tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual emails.
> > tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________ Información de ESET NOD32 Antivirus, versión de la base de
> > firmas de virus 5391 (20100823) __________
> >
> > ESET NOD32 Antivirus ha comprobado este mensaje.
> >
> > http://www.eset.com
> >
> >
> >
>
> __________ Información de ESET NOD32 Antivirus, versión de la base de firmas de virus 5400 (20100826) __________
>
> ESET NOD32 Antivirus ha comprobado este mensaje.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>

A good answer to my question to you about what you like in your
microtonal compositions.

Chris

> You can also try these mp3 files:
>
> http://lumma.org/tuning/xenmusic/xenmusic.zip
>
> (14 tracks zipped to ~ 60 MB. None are my work -- artist
> and tuning information is given the ID3 tags.)
>
> -Carl

Sorry- I later realized that what I wrote didn't really answer it.

Don't forget my CD picks - since I have them on CD, I don't
have mp3 versions. That doesn't mean I like them any less.

http://lumma.org/music/theory/Top12MicrotonalAlbums.html

I link to where you can buy them. In some cases, Amazon
has mp3 downloads available now.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> A good answer to my question to you about what you like in your
> microtonal compositions.
>
> Chris
>
> > You can also try these mp3 files:
> >
> > http://lumma.org/tuning/xenmusic/xenmusic.zip
> >
> > (14 tracks zipped to ~ 60 MB. None are my work -- artist
> > and tuning information is given the ID3 tags.)
> >
> > -Carl
>

Carl,

Nice CD picks...
Creation of the Worlds has some serious layers and interesting use of
in-harmonic timbres in mysteriously harmonic ways, Michael Harrison's CD has
perhaps the most compelling melodies I've heard in Microtonal music (very
abstract yet incredibly efficient), and I've always liked the instant
accessibility and playfulness of Neil Haverstick "Acoustic Stick".

On the side, I really do like Marcus Hobbs/'Marcus Satellite'...but find his
album "Way Beyond, Way Above" far superior to your suggestion of "From On High"
because "Way Beyond..." seems to capture the same degree of energy with far less
notes (more efficient), softer/deeper layers of harmony, and smoother production
and a more steady sense of groove. Same goes with "Asteroid power up by
Googleplex" in your top list...it's all very impression, just so hectic sounding
that it comes across as somewhat forced and less coherent to me. Dare I
ask...what to you find particularly amusing about those two albums?

I've also always wanted to try out Easley Blackwood's work (much because of
how I hear he uses alternative 5ths and neutral intervals)...but where can I
find samples of his works?

Michael wrote:

> On the side, I really do like Marcus Hobbs/'Marcus
> Satellite'...but find his album "Way Beyond, Way Above" far
> superior to your suggestion of "From On High"

They're both great albums. Way Beyond is newer and certainly
sounds more modern than From on High, which was seriously
old school even when it was released in '98. The production
(dynamic range and so on) is better too. But From on High has
more going on microtonally, and is also more interesting from
a synthesis point of view (more Kyma, less Cubase).

> Same goes with "Asteroid power up by
> Googleplex" in your top list...it's all very impression, just
> so hectic sounding that it comes across as somewhat forced and
> less coherent to me.

Power-Up isn't just one of my favorite microtonal albums, it's
one of my favorite albums period. It's hard to say exactly
how awesome something this awesome is, but in 2008 I wrote,

"I think this is one of the best things I've heard for the
first time this century."

I also wrote:

"I first heard this album in 2004 and knew I was being blown
away, but I didn't really get blown away because I was at
work in the middle of a long listening session.
Later, I tried it again a few times, in the car or whatever,
but found it a bit too spastic to open up to.
Then a few months ago I tried it again, and I enjoyed one of
the deepest listening experiences I've had in many years...
maybe even going back to 2002. Oddly, it sounded to me like
very relaxed music... "sublime" is the word that comes to mind.
It's glitch, and it makes squarepusher look like kindergarten."

and:

"That's funny, because the synth guy on this cites
Nancarrow as an influence. And the drummer has toured
with The Mars Volta, by the way (also highly recommended,
but not as highly as this)."

> I've also always wanted to try out Easley Blackwood's work
> (much because of how I hear he uses alternative 5ths and
> neutral intervals)...but where can I find samples of his works?

Here:

http://www.amazon.com/Blackwood-Microtonal-Compositions/dp/B003H15428

I also put the 15-tone etude in the zip file I posted... don't
tell Cedille records.

-Carl

Carl>"But From on High has more going on microtonally, and is also more
interesting from
a synthesis point of view (more Kyma, less Cubase)."
Fair criticism....if "Way Beyond" has a fault to it, it's that it sounds too
much like pure 12TET-like diatonic with micro-tonal polish. Like putting a seal
over a cavity...but a really nice, opaque, shiny seal! :-D

Carl>"Power-Up isn't just one of my favorite microtonal albums, it's one of my
favorite albums period."

>"Later, I tried it again a few times, in the car or whatever, but found it a bit
>too spastic to open up to."
That's pretty much where I got stuck on it....

>"It's glitch, and it makes squarepusher look like kindergarten."
Agreed...though I never got Squarepusher either. Or Aphex Twin. Granted
though, both are technically very impressive. It seems very few artists can
make Glitch also sound somewhat "liquid" (or have groove, to the point you can
just move to it without tearing your brain trying to keep up)...maybe Hybrid or
BT would count there...know any who can make "groove-able glitch" who also do
micro-tonal?

>"I also put the 15-tone etude in the zip file I posted... don't tell Cedille
>records."
It's all good...I won't...(hey) they should be thankful for all the free
promotion. :-)

Michael wrote:

>...maybe Hybrid or BT would count there...

I don't know Hybrid. BT is definitely not glitch. BT's
done some impressive stuff, but personally I don't find his
music very groovy or interesting.

>>I also put the 15-tone etude in the zip file I posted...
>>don't tell Cedille records.
>
> It's all good...I won't...(hey) they should be thankful
> for all the free promotion. :-)

That's what I'm saying! Hopefully Igs and all the other
artists in that zip file feel the same way!

-Carl

Carl>"BT is definitely not glitch."

Oh man..............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osWofdNdyfk

"Glitch is a term used to describe a genre of experimental electronic music that
emerged in the mid to late 1990s. The glitch aesthetic is characterized by a
deliberate use of glitch based sonic artifacts that would normally be viewed as
unwanted disturbances reducing the overall sound quality and are thus usually to
be avoided in audio recordings." -Wikipedia

" "Somnambulist", also known as "Simply Being Loved", holds the Guinness World
Record for most vocal edits in a single track, with 6,178 in the album
version" -Wikipedia
Now how is that not glitch?

Another song he makes with a ton of little "glitch" edits is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yny_vtiDn_k

...Plus.....

-to BT from an interviewer
"You are widely-credited for developing the stutter edit, the granular
synthesis and then nano-correcting. How would you relay the meaning of those
words to someone who's not intimately familiar with electronic music? "
http://www.seattlepi.com/pop/424428_140357-blogcritics.org.html?source=rss

So not only does it seem he does a good deal of stuttering/granular-synthesis
and other "unwanted disturbances reducing the overall sound quality"...it seems
he is credited by and large with inventing many of them! :-D Granted the way
he uses them is "soft"...and not as in your face as other glitch artists...that
may make it unlikable by some...but I doubt it makes it "not glitch".

Me>> It's all good...I won't...(hey) they should be thankful
>> for all the free promotion. :-)

Carl>That's what I'm saying! Hopefully Igs and all the other
>artists in that zip file feel the same way!

Indeed :-)...and hey, I'd feel the same way if someone "stole" one of my tracks
that way; not bad at all.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Michael <djtrancendance@...> wrote:
>
> Carl>"BT is definitely not glitch."
>
> Oh man..............
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osWofdNdyfk

Yes, I have most of his stuff. This is getting off topic,
but BT is an excellent promoter of his own work. The top
comment on the video for instance says how it holds the
Guinness record for number of vocal edits -- who cares?

Electronica genres are defined primarily by tempo and
secondarily by characteristic style elements. BT is more
trance or breakbeat than glitch. Even Astroid Power-Up
isn't really glitch.

> -to BT from an interviewer
> "You are widely-credited for developing the stutter edit,
> the granular synthesis and then nano-correcting.

Boy that interviewer knows her stuff! BT invented granular
synthesis, that's a good one. "Nanocorrecting" is BT's
own term. I wasn't aware it'd caught on. I believe he
started doing it in Live. Maybe he invented Live too.
Actually he was saying he was going to release a program
called Break Tweaker back in '07... did he? I don't find
it on google now.

Not to take away from his stuff... he certainly goes a lot
farther than most other electronica artists. But I always
feel like I'm waiting for something to start happenning
when I'm listening to his stuff. "Where's the beef?" sums
up my reaction.

-Carl