Re: [tuning] bimodal, 10-tone I-IV-V scales

>"Bimodalism -- A New Dimension and Ethos in
>Harmony" paper of Ubieta's

Ubieta's point not to underestimate innovation in earlier times and to be
aware of historical precedents is well taken. However, here are a few
points:

>Hans Neusiedler
>(1508-1563) in The Jew's Dance

I recall reading that this piece, once considered by none other than Willi
Apel an example of Renaissance bitonality, is in fact an example of
scordatura. That is, the apparent written bitonality results from
transposition of one of the lute strings. Once the scordatura is taken into
account, the bitonality disappears.

>it was Charles Ives who
>originally conceived of the twelve-tone technique before
>Schoenberg (or even Josef Matthias Hauer);

Though Ives's Tone Roads uses a sequence of all 12 pitches as an ostinato,
that is hardly the same thing as Schoenberg's 12-tone method. Likewise
Hauer's "tropes" include all 12 pitches, but they are not ordered as they
are in Schoenberg's method.

>inventions by its performer and promoter, Richard Burger

Could that be Richard Bunger?

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[Bill Alves:]
> Ubieta's point not to underestimate innovation in earlier times and
to be aware of historical precedents is well taken. However, here are
a few points:

Thanks Bill, and I'm sure that others will probably have other points
of contention here as well, and I would have to say that the same
would go for his whole Bimodalism treatise too... for while I did
enjoy it, and it did get my imagination going (an important point as
far as I'm concerned), I did not get the feeling that an overly
theoretically rigorous mind was at work (and please note that this is
more of a personal observation than a criticism per say, as I may find
the workings of an overly theoretically rigorous mind just as
objectionable depending upon the context of the observation, etc.).

Dan

Dan Stearns wrote,

>Has anyone considered (or used) 10-tone scales extrapolated from a - a
>la Enrique Ubieta, bimodal I-IV-V?

Please elaborate.

>Both a 5-limit:

>4/3 8/5 5/3 2/1
>1/1 6/5 5/4 3/2
>3/2 9/5 15/8 9/8

> 5/3-----5/4----15/8
> /|\ /|\ /|\
> / | \ / | \ / | \
> / | \ / | \ / | \
>4/3--+--1/1--+--3/2--+--9/8
> \ | / \ | / \ | /
> \ | / \ | / \ | /
> \|/ \|/ \|/
> 8/5-----6/5-----9/5

Dan, what are the vertical lines doing there? Certainly you don't consider
25:24 a consonant interval???

[Paul H. Erlich:]
>Please elaborate.

In the article I came across:

<http://www.ubieta.com/bimodalism/BimodalHarmony.htm>

he more or less treats all chords as a 1-b3-3-5 (even calls them
"triads" at some point), so I just took that and said something like
this to myself, "ah, well if that's the case, then with a I-IV-V it
seems easy enough to see some 10-tone scales in waiting..."

>Dan, what are the vertical lines doing there? Certainly you don't
consider 25:24 a consonant interval???

No, your right I don't.

Dan