@Michael, regarding the academic populists...

Mike,

One of your pet subjects is academic music that has been completely blindered to popular music and musical forms. But I have to tell you, in much the same blunt terms that I used with Marcel, that you have failed to do your "due diligence" on this subject.

At the moment, one of the most common topics on various classical music and composition blogs is the rampant cross-fertilization that is going on with young composers, men and women who - while trained in ivory towers on the hoariest of academic gruel - still hang with their counterparts in school, the young people who listen to all the *other* musics being produced.

Really, it is out there in large quantities.

I don't know all your tastes and it really doesn't matter - I don't have to find someone who makes exactly the kind of pop music you like, because you only need to know that they are out there.

As current as last night's online reading, take a look at some of the names in Alex Ross's New Yorker blog post on the recent Andriessen festival:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/alexross/2010/04/footnotes-andriessen-and-company.html

Check out the websites of the people he refers to as the "younger types". Drill down through their links and you'll find others, along with commentaries, etc, all about the rampant morphing going on between classical and pop idioms with these people. Nico Muhly works with Bjork; Mason Bates is completely at ease in both orchestral and dj worlds - http://www.masonicelectronica.com/

The rest is up to you. It is happening, you just haven't realized it. And if you'd stop all the hectoring and work on getting your microtonal pop masterpieces out there, these people would have one more member to count among their own.

I mean, really - the time for talk is over.

>"One of your pet subjects is academic music that has been completely blindered to popular music and musical forms."
I never said "completely blindered"...but basically that highly academic music has not caught on with a huge majority of people who currently make or play music. Easy example...my grandfather is the only person out of my 40 or so nearest relatives who enjoys traditional classical music beyond academic study, and my brother the only one who enjoys jazz in the same way.

________________________________
From: jonszanto <jszanto@...>
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, May 6, 2010 11:02:52 PM
Subject: [tuning] @Michael, regarding the academic populists...

Mike,

One of your pet subjects is academic music that has been completely blindered to popular music and musical forms. But I have to tell you, in much the same blunt terms that I used with Marcel, that you have failed to do your "due diligence" on this subject.

At the moment, one of the most common topics on various classical music and composition blogs is the rampant cross-fertilization that is going on with young composers, men and women who - while trained in ivory towers on the hoariest of academic gruel - still hang with their counterparts in school, the young people who listen to all the *other* musics being produced.

Really, it is out there in large quantities.

I don't know all your tastes and it really doesn't matter - I don't have to find someone who makes exactly the kind of pop music you like, because you only need to know that they are out there.

As current as last night's online reading, take a look at some of the names in Alex Ross's New Yorker blog post on the recent Andriessen festival:

http://www.newyorke r.com/online/ blogs/alexross/ 2010/04/footnote s-andriessen- and-company. html

Check out the websites of the people he refers to as the "younger types". Drill down through their links and you'll find others, along with commentaries, etc, all about the rampant morphing going on between classical and pop idioms with these people. Nico Muhly works with Bjork; Mason Bates is completely at ease in both orchestral and dj worlds - http://www.masonice lectronica. com/

The rest is up to you. It is happening, you just haven't realized it. And if you'd stop all the hectoring and work on getting your microtonal pop masterpieces out there, these people would have one more member to count among their own.

I mean, really - the time for talk is over.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Michael <djtrancendance@...> wrote:
> I never said "completely blindered"...but basically that highly academic music has not caught on with a huge majority of people who currently make or play music. Easy example...my grandfather is the only person out of my 40 or so nearest relatives who enjoys traditional classical music beyond academic study, and my brother the only one who enjoys jazz in the same way.

1. I feel sorry that virtually no one in your family finds enjoyment in classical music. Ditto jazz.

2. Anecdotal data from a small family mean, pretty much, nothing

3. I make and play music with at least 100 musicians weekly. Virtually all of them are involved in classical music. Even the jazz musicians I work with have an appreciation for classical. Does this make me right? No. Does it make your experience wrong? No.

*****

It does piss me off that I spent a fair amount of time, presenting some of the very people who might be conduits for what you are thinking about, and if nothing else would open your eyes a bit to the fact that music isn't *nearly* as segmented as you think.

But you've completely glossed over any of this, with no acknowledgment. Maybe it is just late, but I don't feel any need to jump through hoops to assist someone who isn't the least bit interested.

I hope I'm wrong, and that you'll check out some of those musicians, their work, and their friends and writings.

Jon S>"It does piss me off that I spent a fair amount of time, presenting some
of the very people who might be conduits for what you are thinking
about, and if nothing else would open your eyes a bit to the fact that
music isn't *nearly* as segmented as you think."
Could be. But then I wonder the following...if music is so unsegmented and so many of you on this list really have such vast connections...why hasn't micro-tonality hit the point where, for example, Electronic Musician Monthly has fairly frequent articles about it or any musicians who have become house-hold names are using it?

If it DOES turn out music is not nearly as segmented...maybe you are right...maybe we already have the best connections and attention we ever will have to the rest of the musical world and might as well give up on spreading micro-tonallity. I mean come on, how many hundred of years has some form of micro-tonality existed in classical music, for example...and yet somehow failed even with this vast pool of connections "across so many music fans" to reach the public ear of today?

Yes...I'm being a bastard and looking for a crazy alternative and an untapped "market segment"...mostly because I'm pretty sure what has been going on the scene has not worked to the point of micro-tonal public acceptance.

The record labels are segmented. Music is not. This is one of the
reason artists love to complain about their labels so much.

But we're moving out of the realm of art and theory and into
commercial practice. That's a whole different ball game. Figure out
how to sell what you want to sell and then go ahead and sell it. In
case you haven't noticed yet, you can sell anything.

-Mike

On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 2:19 AM, Michael <djtrancendance@...m> wrote:
>
> Jon S>"It does piss me off that I spent a fair amount of time, presenting some of the very people who might be conduits for what you are thinking about, and if nothing else would open your eyes a bit to the fact that music isn't *nearly* as segmented as you think."
>    Could be.  But then I wonder the following...if music is so unsegmented and so many of you on this list really have such vast connections...why hasn't micro-tonality hit the point where, for example, Electronic Musician Monthly has fairly frequent articles about it or any musicians who have become house-hold names are using it?
>
>    If it DOES turn out music is not nearly as segmented...maybe you are right...maybe we already have the best connections and attention we ever will have to the rest of the musical world and might as well give up on spreading micro-tonallity.  I mean come on, how many hundred of years has some form of micro-tonality existed in classical music, for example...and yet somehow failed even with this vast pool of connections "across so many music fans" to reach the public ear of today?
>
>     Yes...I'm being a bastard and looking for a crazy alternative and an untapped "market segment"...mostly because I'm pretty sure what has been going on the scene has not worked to the point of micro-tonal public acceptance.