Blue In Green demo

>Paul Erlich said:
>
>> I do hear the tiny upward
>> shift today. Would you mind giving the notes for the last few chords?

>From: "Gerald Eskelin" <stg3music@earthlink.net>
>
>The significance of the moving pitch is still of interest, however, since
>the tuning of the G may very well have been influenced by the combination of
>the sounding Eb and Bb. To me, the shift is not tiny, however.

I've listened to the end of "Blue 'n' Green" on my copy of "From All
Sides". My impression is that the soloist's G goes up just a little bit as
the other singers go through a sequence of chords before resting on the
final Abmaj9 (Jerry, might you post what those chords are?). My guess is
that her original G is 5/4 relative to Eb, and her final G is just a hair
above that, much closer to 5/4 than to 400 cents. Whether or not I am right
about her pitches reletive to 5/4 or 400 cents, I perceive the change as
one that may be explained as a very small performance variation, or as one
that allows the soloist to be heard as distinct from the background (heard
by herself, as well as by the audience). To my ears she is _slightly out of
tune at the higher pitch. I'm sure the chord would lock better if she were
to finish on her original pitch. But since she's the soloist I'm not so
sure that that would be an improvement in the performance. To me it's just
like what was posted (by Johnny Reinhard?) about the solo violinist playing
sharper than the other strings in a concerto.

John Link

________________________________________________________________________________

The CD "Live at Saint Peter's" by the JOHN LINK VOCAL QUINTET is now available!
To purchase the CD visit www.johnlinkmusic.com, or write to johnlink@con2.com.
________________________________________________________________________________

John Link wrote,

>I've listened to the end of "Blue 'n' Green" on my copy of "From All
>Sides". My impression is that the soloist's G goes up just a little bit as
>the other singers go through a sequence of chords before resting on the
>final Abmaj9 (Jerry, might you post what those chords are?). My guess is
>that her original G is 5/4 relative to Eb, and her final G is just a hair
>above that, much closer to 5/4 than to 400 cents. Whether or not I am right
>about her pitches reletive to 5/4 or 400 cents, I perceive the change as
>one that may be explained as a very small performance variation, or as one
>that allows the soloist to be heard as distinct from the background (heard
>by herself, as well as by the audience). To my ears she is _slightly out of
>tune at the higher pitch. I'm sure the chord would lock better if she were
>to finish on her original pitch. But since she's the soloist I'm not so
>sure that that would be an improvement in the performance. To me it's just
>like what was posted (by Johnny Reinhard?) about the solo violinist playing
>sharper than the other strings in a concerto.

I have to express general agreement with John's perceptions here. I'd
estimate the final G at around 395 cents above the Eb -- more calm than an
ET major third, but high enough to avoid "disappearing" into the chord.

Coming up: minor triad sound examples.

>
> John Link wrote,
>
>>I've listened to the end of "Blue 'n' Green" on my copy of "From All
>>Sides". My impression is that the soloist's G goes up just a little bit as
>>the other singers go through a sequence of chords before resting on the
>>final Abmaj9 (Jerry, might you post what those chords are?). My guess is
>>that her original G is 5/4 relative to Eb, and her final G is just a hair
>>above that, much closer to 5/4 than to 400 cents. Whether or not I am right
>>about her pitches reletive to 5/4 or 400 cents, I perceive the change as
>>one that may be explained as a very small performance variation, or as one
>>that allows the soloist to be heard as distinct from the background (heard
>>by herself, as well as by the audience). To my ears she is _slightly out of
>>tune at the higher pitch. I'm sure the chord would lock better if she were
>>to finish on her original pitch. But since she's the soloist I'm not so
>>sure that that would be an improvement in the performance. To me it's just
>>like what was posted (by Johnny Reinhard?) about the solo violinist playing
>>sharper than the other strings in a concerto.

And Paul Erlich concurred:
>
> I have to express general agreement with John's perceptions here. I'd
> estimate the final G at around 395 cents above the Eb -- more calm than an
> ET major third, but high enough to avoid "disappearing" into the chord.

Thanks to Christopher Chapman's help a few weeks ago, I learned how to tune
my M-1. So, prodded by John's and Paul's interest here, I compared Vicky's
G(s?) to the M-1. I selected scale type "Pure" (evidently JI, from the sound
of it), master tuned it to Eb, adjusted it a few cents to fit Vicky's high
Eb and the low Eb in the final sonority. Then I played the excerpt about
twenty times and noticed a whole bunch of stuff.

The big surprise was that she _initially_ sings the final G way above the JI
third. So I switched to ET and she was even higher than a tempered G. When
she moves it up as the final chord arrives she moves even higher.

No other way to describe it. She is simply "way sharp" on her last pitch.
When I sang her last pitch with her and sustained it past the recording with
a low Eb sounding on the keyboard, it was really "unpleasant." She is closer
to Ab than to the ET G. (Does that remind you of our 7:9 discussion?)
Evidently, since it doesn't sound nearly as dissonant on the recording, much
of the sharpness appears to be masked by the combination of pitches in the
sung chord.

I certainly agree with John that the chord would lock better if she had held
her original pitch; but of course that would already be close to what I have
been calling the "high third."

On the other hand, there is the possibility that she _did sustain the last G
without pitch change and we are only "hearing" it change. (Note my "hold the
press" reactions to Dan Wolf's new sound demos.) Notice that the G seems to
change precisely when the final chord arrives. Does she change it because
she anticipates the sound of the final chord? Or is it an illusion? Is it
Memorex? Or is it the real thing?

Regarding sharping to stand out from the crowd: I'm not sure about that. I
know that would not be something Vicky would do intentionally. If that were
the case, she would have been sharp through the whole thing--which she
clearly is not. I'll have to pay attention for a while to concerto soloists.
(Of course, we won't know, will we, if the effect is illusionary
--particularly on final tonic chords.)

That's enough. I think I'll go pour a martini.

Jerry