The Doors of Perception

Acid, mescaline, meantone, peyote, Pythagorean...

I'm a little confused...

Surely I did not, by commenting on Daniel Wolf's kind (is that perhaps too
exaggerated?) examples concerning meantone "mean" to disparage them due to
the errors. I sincerely did appreciate the references and help.

However regarding his quotation in TD 545:14:

>I'm not a subscriber to the organ list, but a search through the archives
>turns up such a large number of instruments mentioned in historical
tunings
>that I suspect we actually have been hearing a lot of pieces correctly --
>and for a long time.

Perhaps it is the case that at certain places in Europe (and isolated ones
here in the US) there are "accurate" performances of Medieval, Renaissance
and Baroque music regarding intonation which is wonderful -- but aren't
there many, many current performances of Bach, Handel and Renaissance
masters that are done in 12-tET, disregarding the appropriate tunings??

Maybe I'm wrong and I've just been going to too many "contemporary music"
concerts... (??)

______________
Joseph Pehrson

Joseph Pehrson wrote:

> From: Joseph Pehrson <josephpehrson@compuserve.com>
>
> Acid, mescaline, meantone, peyote, Pythagorean...
>
> I'm a little confused...

Dear Pentheus:
Dionysis is also a god of music!

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
www.anaphoria.com

I don't think such performances are so isolated. Historical tunings are a
standard part of early music performance practice today. However, I suspect
that some fortified islands of 12tet may exist; Manhattan may well be
among them. (Last year, I heard an all-H�ndel concert in Jackson, MS, with
continuo organ and harpsichord in meantone).

DJW

> Perhaps it is the case that at certain places in Europe (and isolated ones
> here in the US) there are "accurate" performances of Medieval, Renaissance
> and Baroque music regarding intonation which is wonderful -- but aren't
> there many, many current performances of Bach, Handel and Renaissance
> masters that are done in 12-tET, disregarding the appropriate tunings??
>
> Maybe I'm wrong and I've just been going to too many "contemporary music"
> concerts... (??)
>
> ______________
> Joseph Pehrson
>
>
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In a message dated 2/24/00 6:25:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, djwolf@snafu.de
writes:

> However, I suspect
> that some fortified islands of 12tet may exist; Manhattan may well be
> among them.

Daniel Wolf, though you are expert in many things, Manhattan is not one of
them. There is more activity in non-12 in NYC than most anywhere on the
planet. However, early music everywhere has not been properly labeled in its
packaging when it is tuned non-12. This is true even for Koopman and Uchida
recordings, some of the best. Not all trust their ears for the distinctions
of the different constellations of pitch available to the modern musician to
use.

Sieman Terpstra, now in Amsterdam, does regularly turn up early music
performances in non-12TET, however undisclosed in the liner notes. The Dutch
have been leaders in early music performance in non-12TET. Dutch recorder
players play non-12TET on an intuitive level with little intellectual
underpinning.

While there are those resistant to exploration of this kind in NY as
elsewhere, they are feeling besieged by the rising tuning afficiandi, now
including Bernard Holland who has been writing about unequal Bach of late in
our local paper of record.

And it is one thing to learn a new orientation (like meantone) by ear, only
to wrestle with different varieties of meantone, irregular temperaments, and
pure Pythagorean, mostly in live performance, undocumented. Additionally,
most New Yorkers are from elsewhere and bring many different intonational
points of view for exploration.

Johnny Reinhard
AFMM

Johnny Reinhard:

The question was about non-12tet organ performances. In the archives of the
organ list I found no mention of an organ in a historical tuning in New York
City, but many elsewhere (I mentioned a continuo organ in Jackson). I would
be delighted to know of any news to the contrary.

It's standard practice now that pre-romantic instruments be restored to
historical tunings. Recordings do not usually advertise this attribute, but
if the recording involves a pre-romantic instrument and there is any mention
of restoration in the past fourty years, it's a good indicator. Another good
indicator is whether or not the instruments have a _Terz_ stop, a register
matching the fifth harmonic, and nearly unbearable in anything but meantone
or an unequal temperament with good major thirds. The United States, having
very few original organs to restore does have many outstanding new
baroque-style organs in historical tunings, notably those by Brombaugh and
Fisk.

I live in a modest outer district of Frankfurt, with an even more modest
reputation for musical activities. There are, however, three churches with
pipe organs in the district: one is a restored classical organ in 1/6 comma
meantone, two are small modern baroque-style organs in Kirnberger III.
None of the organists here has a special interest in historical practices,
the tunings just came with the instruments or the restoration. Apparently,
12tet (or the absence thereof) is simply not an issue here.

Daniel Wolf

There are a few non-12TET organs in New York. St. Adolphous Lutheran has an
organ that has long been tuned to 1/6th comma meantone. This organ is almost
entirely utilized for church services.

Another is in the concert hall at Queens College which can be switched into
Vallotti. This availability is reputed to be at faculty member Joel
Mandelbaum's suggestion.

Johnny Reinhard
AFMM