Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Re : PLEASE DON'T LAUGH.

Angela Elson wrote:

> I'm a very amateur guitar player and I have been trying to expand my playing
> abilities.
>
> I stumbled across your "mailing list" and thought that it sounded wonderful.
> I assumed it was a possibility that I could become enlightened via your
> discussions about tunings...
>
> Alas...
>
> Your depth and passion on the subject is incredible.... and waaaay over my
> head.
>
> All I hoped to learn was the mystery of how a dropped-d tuning could be
> achieved and likewise tuning the individual strings for the different sounds
> (ie like the Ani DiFranco tunings).

Angela, we have a lot of fun sometimes on this list, but we never laugh at
anybody. Joe Pehrson, one of the actual protagonists, recently took up the
classical guitar. He might like this as well.Open guitar tunings are quite
to the point in our discussions because they allow a kind of Adaptive Just
Intonation. If you tune the open strings in a nice sounding chord, for
example: D, A, D, F#, A, D (that's he dropped-d tuning)then you'll find the
same type of chord with exactly the same tuning quality on every next fret.
Melodic steps follow the 12-note equal temperament as they are defined by
the distance in between the frets. Here's a little piece in this tuning:

'JOHN HENRY'

D--7-9-----12------12-------12------7-------------7---------0---------------
A------------------------------------------8----------8---------------------
F#--------------------------------------------------------------------------
D------0-------0-------0-------0-------0-------0--------0------0-------0----
A---------------------------------------------------------------------------
D--0-------0-------0--------0-------0------0--------0-------0-------0-------

---12-----12-12--10-------9-------7------------------------7--9-------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------0-------0--------0-------0-------0-------0-------0--------0-----------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---0------0--------0-------0-------0-------0-------0-------0----------------

---12------12-12------12-------7--------------7-------0---------------------
----------------------------------------8---------8-------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------0---------0---------0-------0--------0-------0-------0-------0-------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---0-------0----------0--------0--------0-------0-------0-------0-----------

---3-------3-3-----0---------0-----3-------3-----0------------0-------------
-------------------------0-2-------2-------2--------------0-2---------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------0-------0-------0-------0-------0-------0--------0--------0----------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---0-------0-------0-------0-------0-------0--------0-------0---------------

---9-7-------0-----------------0--------------------------------------------
---------8-------0---------0-2--------5-------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------0-------0---------0-------0---------0---------0----------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---0-------0---------0-------0--------0---------0----------0----------------

The zero's on the 6th and on the 4th string should be in a steady tempo,
played with the thumb. All the other notes fall on the beat or in between
and can be played with the index-finger. The open third string (F#) doesn't
appear in he notation but will sound occasionnally if your index-finger
slips through. If you print this out, you can draw bar-lines yourself every
four beats. The piece starts on a third beat. Good luck!

--Wim

🔗bedwellm@WellsFargo.COM

This list rocks.
Somehow....

Micah

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wim Hoogewerf [SMTP:wim.hoogewerf@fnac.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 7:18 AM
> To: tuning@onelist.com
> Subject: Re : [tuning] PLEASE DON'T LAUGH.
>
> From: "Wim Hoogewerf" <wim.hoogewerf@fnac.net>
>
> Angela Elson wrote:
>
>
> > I'm a very amateur guitar player and I have been trying to expand my
> playing
> > abilities.
> >
> > I stumbled across your "mailing list" and thought that it sounded
> wonderful.
> > I assumed it was a possibility that I could become enlightened via your
> > discussions about tunings...
> >
> > Alas...
> >
> > Your depth and passion on the subject is incredible.... and waaaay over
> my
> > head.
> >
> > All I hoped to learn was the mystery of how a dropped-d tuning could be
> > achieved and likewise tuning the individual strings for the different
> sounds
> > (ie like the Ani DiFranco tunings).
>
> Angela, we have a lot of fun sometimes on this list, but we never laugh at
> anybody. Joe Pehrson, one of the actual protagonists, recently took up the
> classical guitar. He might like this as well.Open guitar tunings are quite
> to the point in our discussions because they allow a kind of Adaptive Just
> Intonation. If you tune the open strings in a nice sounding chord, for
> example: D, A, D, F#, A, D (that's he dropped-d tuning)then you'll find
> the
> same type of chord with exactly the same tuning quality on every next
> fret.
> Melodic steps follow the 12-note equal temperament as they are defined by
> the distance in between the frets. Here's a little piece in this tuning:
>
> 'JOHN HENRY'
>
> D--7-9-----12------12-------12------7-------------7---------0-------------
> --
> A------------------------------------------8----------8-------------------
> --
> F#------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> D------0-------0-------0-------0-------0-------0--------0------0-------0--
> --
> A-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> D--0-------0-------0--------0-------0------0--------0-------0-------0-----
> --
>
>
>
> ---12-----12-12--10-------9-------7------------------------7--9-----------
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> ------0-------0--------0-------0-------0-------0-------0--------0---------
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> ---0------0--------0-------0-------0-------0-------0-------0--------------
> --
>
>
>
> ---12------12-12------12-------7--------------7-------0-------------------
> --
> ----------------------------------------8---------8-----------------------
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> -------0---------0---------0-------0--------0-------0-------0-------0-----
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> ---0-------0----------0--------0--------0-------0-------0-------0---------
> --
>
>
>
> ---3-------3-3-----0---------0-----3-------3-----0------------0-----------
> --
> -------------------------0-2-------2-------2--------------0-2-------------
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> -------0-------0-------0-------0-------0-------0--------0--------0--------
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> ---0-------0-------0-------0-------0-------0--------0-------0-------------
> --
>
>
>
> ---9-7-------0-----------------0------------------------------------------
> --
> ---------8-------0---------0-2--------5-----------------------------------
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> -------0-------0---------0-------0---------0---------0--------------------
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> ---0-------0---------0-------0--------0---------0----------0--------------
> --
>
>
> The zero's on the 6th and on the 4th string should be in a steady tempo,
> played with the thumb. All the other notes fall on the beat or in between
> and can be played with the index-finger. The open third string (F#)
> doesn't
> appear in he notation but will sound occasionnally if your index-finger
> slips through. If you print this out, you can draw bar-lines yourself
> every
> four beats. The piece starts on a third beat. Good luck!
>
> --Wim
>
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🔗Wim Hoogewerf <wim.hoogewerf@fnac.net>

----------
De�: "Wim Hoogewerf" <wim.hoogewerf@fnac.net>
� : "tuning@onelist.com" <tuning@onelist.com>
Objet�: Re : [tuning] PLEASE DON'T LAUGH.
Date�: Mer 16 f�v 2000 16:18

Sorry, in my previous post I added spontaneously a seventh string in the
tablature version of "John Henry". Here's what it should be:

'JOHN HENRY'

---12------12-12------12-------7--------------7-------0---------------------
----------------------------------------8---------8-------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------0---------0---------0-------0--------0-------0-------0-------0-------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---0-------0----------0--------0--------0-------0-------0-------0-----------

---3-------3-3-----0---------0-----3-------3-----0------------0-------------
-------------------------0-2-------2-------2--------------0-2---------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------0-------0-------0-------0-------0-------0--------0--------0----------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---0-------0-------0-------0-------0-------0--------0-------0---------------

---9-7-------0-----------------0--------------------------------------------
---------8-------0---------0-2--------5-------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------0-------0---------0-------0---------0---------0----------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---0-------0---------0-------0--------0---------0----------0----------------

--Wim

🔗Wim Hoogewerf <wim.hoogewerf@fnac.net>

Angela, even if this not exactly the "How to play the guitar in one lesson"
list, the subject might interest some people, because it's very essential.
>
>>From what I gather, if I want to tune the top string down, I can easily tune
> the top sting to the d string (ie 3rd string?) or as someone suggested pick
> the note from the fret below... sound right???

The top string is the highest sounding string. The *normal* D is the fourth.
You're mixing up "high/low" and "up/down". The melody goes up when your
fingers go down. Many beginning students logically make that mistake.
There's also an historical example:

Luys Milan (16th century) proposed in one of his vihuela pieces (the Fantasy
XIV) to move the fourth fret "up a little" to get a *stronger* sound from
the notes in that position:

"Esta fantasia que se sigue tanbien es para hazer redobles con dos dedos: y
sienpre q(ue) tanereys el quarto y tercero tono por estos terminos q(ue)
esta fa(n)tasia anda: alcareys un poco el quarto traste de la vihuela para
que el punto del dicho traste sea fuerte y no flaco".

(Can anybody translate this correctly? I use a french translation myself)

We're still not sure what he ment. "alcareys un poco": raise a bit. But in
what direction? Upwards melodically, towards the bridge, or upwards
physically, towards the tuning mechanism? The fourth fret gives a major
third from the open string, so Milan's indication should tell us something
wether he was *meantone* or *Pythagorean*.

You should tune the 4th and the 5th string with your tuner and then compare
the octaves for the other D's and the A. The 4th fret on he 4th string gives
you the F#. If you play D and F# together you hear the major third. Do you
like that sound? Listen to it over and over again. You may tune down the F#
a little. Thus you get the low major third (meantone, natural, 5:4...) If
you tune the F# higher than the fourth fret tells you, you get Jerry
Eskelin's "high" third or even the Pythagorean one. Now strum the whole open
chord D, A, D, F#, A, D.
*My* ears tell me that the low F# tends to disappear, to melt in the
surrounded notes, while a high F# remains clearly distinguishable. Angela,
if all this rings your bell, stay on the list and learn all about it.
>
> I have another question about when a "song is in C#m" for instance and they
> say to just place the capo on the 6th fret. Is that just removing the need
> for tuning each of the strings into that key?

A capo simply transposes the tuning of the open string and adapts what you
play to your voice, if you want to sing at the same time. Of course a capo
works only for upward transposition. To go downwards you really have to drop
the tuning of all the open strings. That's currently done. A good example,
but not known by everybody, is Paul McCartney singing "Yesterday" with his
guitar in standard tuning but a whole tone lower. In this way he plays *in
G* what you normally get *in F* when you buy the music.

--Wim