Right idea, wrong examples

[Joe Monzo, quotes in TD 533:4]

>> [Joe Pehrson]
>> The biggest problem, in my view, is the classification of the
>> vi chord as a I. Sure, and also according to Forte, it can
> > "substitute" for a I. However, I much prefer Forte's description
>> of the vi as "dominant preparation" since Pythagorean chain
>> progressions such as I-vi-ii-V-I are so common...

[Joe Monzo TD 533:4]

>But others have pointed out the idea (valid for Riemann) that
>'normal' progression was:

> from IV to V,
>from V to I, and
>from I to anywhere.

>This does not invalidate vi=I as a 'dominant preparation'.

> I suppose maybe we just see the relationship between Riemann
>and Forte differently; to me, Forte is simply an elaboration of
Riemann.

And the earlier post by Paul Erlich:

> [Paul Erlich, TD 531.24]
>
>> [Joe Pehrson]
>> Obviously, Paul, your teacher was teaching Reimann and
*not*
>> Forte, since the definitions you mention are quite
different
>> from Forte's definitions and terminology shown above.
>
> [Paul]
> Not at all! As I see it, the two are virtually
identical!

>And with Paul on my side, I'm feeling pretty confident...
:)

>[TD 535:18 Daniel Wolf]

>The first I left as an open problem for theorists: How well does a set of
>one dimensional functions (T,D,S) cover tonal motion over a two
dimensional
>lattice? Are additional terms needed to cover motion by thirds? Or can
>motions by thirds be adequated described as modified T,D, or S functions?

In my post of TD 528:9, I expressed concern with the use of the Riemann
classifications. Tonic, including vi and iii as subsets, and subdominant
including ii as a subset...

And, naturally, I preferred Forte, since that is the book that I read...
:-)

However, now I'm beginning to believe maybe I was on the right track almost
by accident. All of the V of V relationships I cited from Forte fit nicely
into Riemann and are the same, as mentioned *both* by Paul Erlich and Joe
Monzo above, oh and Jerry Eskelin too...

Yup. Duh.

BUT, there still is apparently something "unsatisfying" in the "triadic"
Riemann classifications concerning harmonic motion by thirds. Maybe right
idea, wrong examples...??

Joseph Pehrson