Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Glad I didn't buy that one...

A steady tone is indeed necessary with my Heath (kit) counter. I normally use as a microphone a sound level meter (Radio Shack or equivalent) to stabilize the input level. It is not the microphone which would be unsteady but possibly the sound source. I've used this setup along with a signal generator (variable frequency sine waves) for tuning as the calibrations on the signal generator (an old Eico) are not fine enough nor accurate enough. The Heath reads to the nearest one Hertz but tends to drift slightly at times (probably because the signal does) so you can approximate to the nearest one-half Hertz when it oscillates between two adjacent numbers.
Mostly I've used this setup for measuring loudspeaker free air resonance and resonance into test boxes of one-half (for 8"), one (for 12") or two (for 15") cubic foot test boxes (the Novak method for determining the optimum bass reflex enclosure size and ducted port size and length; reprinted from Popular Electronics in the book on speakers once sold through Radio Shack, by Badmaieff and Davis). In that case, as the distortion increases at low frequencies, the counter starts to read the second harmonic (or even the third) instead of the fundamental, although this normally does not occur until below either of these resonances. For speaker testing, extreme accuracy is not necessary.
But this could be a problem in piano tuning in the lower register where the fundamental is weak, so it's better to start in the middle and do an octave there and (assuming a scale with consistent tuning throughout the octaves) tune the rest as octave intervals by ear.
Whether you are tuning to just intonation or a temperament, the counter will get you close but the final adjustment to either no beats or some beats will need to be done by ear. (If you have a counter that reads to a tenth of a Hertz, this may not be the case.)

>>> Joseph Pehrson <josephpehrson@compuserve.com> 02/15 10:45 PM >>>
From: Joseph Pehrson <josephpehrson@compuserve.com>

In the "glad I didn't buy that one" entry category, I have to thank Bill
Alves for his help [TD 525:9] in locating a frequency counter.

However, I need to use it with a microphone, and I'm glad I inquired at the
company, since I got the following response:

Dear Sir:

Thanks for your interest in our test and measurement equipment.

The frequency counter needs to measure a steady signal. Although a
microphone might be able to put out a signal for the frequency counter, I
don't know whether it is stable enough to measure it.

Sincerely,
Sales
Alfa Electronics, Inc.

Joseph Pehrson

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🔗Bill Alves <alves@orion.ac.hmc.edu>

>From: Joseph Pehrson <josephpehrson@compuserve.com>
>
>In the "glad I didn't buy that one" entry category, I have to thank Bill
>Alves for his help [TD 525:9] in locating a frequency counter.
>
[company response casts doubt on the ability of a freq counter to get a
stable enough signal from a mic input.]

Back in my pre-MIDI days of electronic music, I worked in a studio with a
freq counter (I think it was a Heathkit). It was generally used to tune the
Moog modular synth the studio had and generally had no trouble getting the
freq from a Moog oscillator. Of course, that is a pretty steady signal
(though not as steady as one would have liked, especially while the Moog
was warming up).

It's true that, with a real-world input like from a microphone, the counter
would often "cast around" a bit, sometimes jumping to a harmonic, other
times just oscillating randomly, especially if the signal wasn't very
clean. The rate of this oscillation on this particular model could be
controlled by a precision switch, which set the sample window and hence the
precision of the frequency estimate to 100, 10, 1, or 0.1 hertz. If the
signal wasn't steady enough to get a clear reading at a high precision, one
could set this switch to, say, 10 hz and a pattern of where it was
oscillating around might become apparent, allowing a reasonable frequency
estimate, albeit a rough one, especially for low- and mid-range pitches.

Of course, the expected input impedence was not in the range for a
microphone, so the mic would have to go through a preamp. I don't know if
this is of any help, especially if you have to decide whether or not to
spend $150 on something that might or might not work for your purposes.
Best of luck.

Bill

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^ Bill Alves email: alves@hmc.edu ^
^ Harvey Mudd College URL: http://www2.hmc.edu/~alves/ ^
^ 301 E. Twelfth St. (909)607-4170 (office) ^
^ Claremont CA 91711 USA (909)607-7600 (fax) ^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

🔗John F. Sprague <jsprague@dhcr.state.ny.us>

I happened to be looking through those books in a Radio Shack store of items they don't normally carry any more, such as vacuum tubes. One of the few pieces of test equipment available (on special order) is a signal generator which has a digital readout, to a tenth of a Hertz. In kit form it is $199 or $200 and built up $269 or $270.
I also neglected to mention my tuning methodology. Rather than try to input the signal from an instrument, I set the generator to the desired frequency and tune the instrument to that, followed by fine tuning the instrument to itself (within an octave) and then the other octaves (such as on a piano) to the central one. The microphone setup, with or without preamp (the sound level meter has one built in) is useful when testing loudspeakers and necessary because the signal generator dial calibrations are not very accurate on my Eico.

>>> "John F. Sprague" <JSprague@dhcr.state.ny.us> 02/16 11:14 AM >>>
From: "John F. Sprague" <JSprague@dhcr.state.ny.us>

>>> Joseph Pehrson <josephpehrson@compuserve.com> 02/15 10:45 PM >>>
From: Joseph Pehrson <josephpehrson@compuserve.com>

In the "glad I didn't buy that one" entry category, I have to thank Bill
Alves for his help [TD 525:9] in locating a frequency counter.

However, I need to use it with a microphone, and I'm glad I inquired at the
company, since I got the following response:

Dear Sir:

Thanks for your interest in our test and measurement equipment.

The frequency counter needs to measure a steady signal. Although a
microphone might be able to put out a signal for the frequency counter, I
don't know whether it is stable enough to measure it.

Sincerely,
Sales
Alfa Electronics, Inc.

Joseph Pehrson

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Glad I didn't buy that one...

🔗Joseph Pehrson <josephpehrson@compuserve.com>

🔗John F. Sprague <JSprague@dhcr.state.ny.us>

🔗Bill Alves <alves@orion.ac.hmc.edu>

🔗John F. Sprague <jsprague@dhcr.state.ny.us>