san diego microtonal seven: meeting of the minds

hello all,

Mark Rankin has been in town for a few days,
to give a presentation to the microtonal gang
in San Diego. It was very interesting, and i
will divulge no more about it as Mark is preparing
a book about it for publication.

In addition to meeting and talking to Mark for the
past couple of days, it was also nice to see
John Chalmers and Dave Hill again, both of whom
don't get into town much lately. And it was also
a great opportunity to get a group photo:

http://sonic-arts.org/sd-micro7_2009.0719.htm

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com/tonescape.aspx
Tonescape microtonal music software

monz! It is great to see the old gang together again.
thanks for posting, and thanks for helping keep microtonal
activity alive in Southern California. -Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <joemonz@...> wrote:
>
> hello all,
>
> Mark Rankin has been in town for a few days,
> to give a presentation to the microtonal gang
> in San Diego. It was very interesting, and i
> will divulge no more about it as Mark is preparing
> a book about it for publication.
>
> In addition to meeting and talking to Mark for the
> past couple of days, it was also nice to see
> John Chalmers and Dave Hill again, both of whom
> don't get into town much lately. And it was also
> a great opportunity to get a group photo:
>
> http://sonic-arts.org/sd-micro7_2009.0719.htm
>
> -monz
> http://tonalsoft.com/tonescape.aspx
> Tonescape microtonal music software
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <carl@...> wrote:
> thanks for posting, and thanks for helping keep microtonal
> activity alive in Southern California. -Carl

Such as? The only microtonal "activity" I *ever* see is up north in the Greater Los Angeles Metropolitan area. As in Bill Alves, John Schneider, and a few others. In San Diego? Ummm... concerts? Other?

I think the only thing happening is some guys hanging out. Monz, if I've missed some well-publicized concerts in the last year or two, please let me know where I can make sure I'm aware of these in the future.

Cheers,
Jon

P.S. I just realized that maybe Carl was talking about research and theory. Yes, maybe that activity is taking place.

Hi Jon and Carl,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <jszanto@...> wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <carl@> wrote:
> > thanks for posting, and thanks for helping keep microtonal
> > activity alive in Southern California. -Carl
>
> Such as? The only microtonal "activity" I *ever* see is up
> north in the Greater Los Angeles Metropolitan area. As in
> Bill Alves, John Schneider, and a few others. In San Diego?
> Ummm... concerts? Other?

Well, you certainly don't see the microtonal activity
that happens at Sonic Arts, because you never come by.

> I think the only thing happening is some guys hanging out.
> Monz, if I've missed some well-publicized concerts in the
> last year or two, please let me know where I can make sure
> I'm aware of these in the future.
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>
> P.S. I just realized that maybe Carl was talking about
> research and theory. Yes, maybe that activity is taking place.

I can't characterize any of this activity as "widely
publicized", but there certainly is microtonal activity
at Sonic Arts on a more-or-less daily basis, in the form
of improvisations being recorded by Jonathan and Brink
and any other microtonalist who visits.

And about 2 or 3 times a week there are theoretical discussions
between Brink and myself and including Jonathan or others
when they are around, and demonstrations of Tonescape.

The Sonic Arts Gallery is open to the public Thursday
thru Sunday, 12 to 5 pm, every week. You and anyone else
are welcome to drop by. And microtonalists can make
arrangements thru Jonathan for visits at hours when
it's not officially open, and all of the instruments
are available for use at the Gallery for anyone who
would like to join in the recording.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com/tonescape.aspx
Tonescape microtonal music software

Hi Monz,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <joemonz@...> wrote:
> I can't characterize any of this activity as "widely
> publicized", but there certainly is microtonal activity
> at Sonic Arts on a more-or-less daily basis, in the form
> of improvisations being recorded by Jonathan and Brink
> and any other microtonalist who visits.

I see. Well, my days of sitting around and improvising have pretty much been pushed aside by other things, that's just how it goes. I was hoping maybe there was something a little more substantial going on, but group playing is usually, if nothing else, fun.

OTOH, I *have* been considering signing up at the yoga center on the corner down there...

Cheers,
Jon

If you have audio that's worth listening to, let's hear it.

--
* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com

> > I think the only thing happening is some guys hanging out.
> > Monz, if I've missed some well-publicized concerts in the
> > last year or two, please let me know where I can make sure
> > I'm aware of these in the future.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jon
> >
> > P.S. I just realized that maybe Carl was talking about
> > research and theory. Yes, maybe that activity is taking place.
>
> I can't characterize any of this activity as "widely
> publicized", but there certainly is microtonal activity
> at Sonic Arts on a more-or-less daily basis, in the form
> of improvisations being recorded by Jonathan and Brink
> and any other microtonalist who visits.
>
> And about 2 or 3 times a week there are theoretical discussions
> between Brink and myself and including Jonathan or others
> when they are around, and demonstrations of Tonescape.
>
> The Sonic Arts Gallery is open to the public Thursday
> thru Sunday, 12 to 5 pm, every week. You and anyone else
> are welcome to drop by. And microtonalists can make
> arrangements thru Jonathan for visits at hours when
> it's not officially open, and all of the instruments
> are available for use at the Gallery for anyone who
> would like to join in the recording.

It's great to hear this is still happening, monz. I must
say I was very impressed with the CDs of improvisations you
and Jonathan G. gave me when you were visiting. As essential
and enjoyable as regular, formal concerts are, for my money
I must say I prefer an active improv scene 2:1.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <carl@...> wrote:
> As essential
> and enjoyable as regular, formal concerts are, for my money
> I must say I prefer an active improv scene 2:1.

Always good to know one's biases up front.

Cheers,
Jon

P.S. Always worked for Phish and the Dead, too.

Hi Jon,

Well, if you do join a class at the Yoga center, that
gives you a good excuse for walking down the block to
participate at Sonic Arts. :-)

... and here's some more unsoliticted free advertising:
Grant's Deli right next door is a very cool coffeeshop
and they make terrific sandwiches. Actually the whole
area near 30th and Beech has undergone quite a transformation
since i've been living in the neighborhood.

It would be nice to see you once in a while too.
I know, since becoming a daddy, exactly what it means
to be too busy for a lot of stuff that i used to enjoy doing.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com/tonescape.aspx
Tonescape microtonal music software

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <jszanto@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Monz,
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <joemonz@> wrote:
> > I can't characterize any of this activity as "widely
> > publicized", but there certainly is microtonal activity
> > at Sonic Arts on a more-or-less daily basis, in the form
> > of improvisations being recorded by Jonathan and Brink
> > and any other microtonalist who visits.
>
> I see. Well, my days of sitting around and improvising have pretty much been pushed aside by other things, that's just how it goes. I was hoping maybe there was something a little more substantial going on, but group playing is usually, if nothing else, fun.
>
> OTOH, I *have* been considering signing up at the yoga center on the corner down there...
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>

Hi David,

Jonathan and Brink have been mastering one CD after another
of mp3's of their improvs, which they sell for $10 apiece.
I'm sure it would be ok to put some of it on the internet.

I'll ask if i can upload some of it to my website,
which BTW already does contain some really good stuff
from Bill Wesley and Prent Rodgers:

http://tonalsoft.com/downloads/free-music.aspx

Bill's "nail violin" has to be heard to be believed.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com/tonescape.aspx
Tonescape microtonal music software

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, David Beardsley <db@...> wrote:
>
> If you have audio that's worth listening to, let's hear it.
>
> --
> * David Beardsley
> * http://biink.com
>

Hi Carl,

You and i both (and everyone else) know that, by nature,
improvisation is very hit-or-miss ... but generally
speaking, the improvisations by Jonathan and Brink
keep improving all the time.

My only regret is that my visits there are both so
infrequent and short these days that often when
i improvise something with them -- most often it's
duets with just me and Brink -- they've already
finished recording and the studio is powered down,
so a lot of times we'll do one piece (with me) which
is really good but it doesn't get recorded.

But when Brink works with Jonathan pretty much
everything gets recorded, and a lot of the stuff
they've done in the last 2 years or so is very good indeed.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com/tonescape.aspx
Tonescape microtonal music software

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <carl@...> wrote:

> > I can't characterize any of this activity as "widely
> > publicized", but there certainly is microtonal activity
> > at Sonic Arts on a more-or-less daily basis, in the form
> > of improvisations being recorded by Jonathan and Brink
> > and any other microtonalist who visits.
> >
> > And about 2 or 3 times a week there are theoretical discussions
> > between Brink and myself and including Jonathan or others
> > when they are around, and demonstrations of Tonescape.
> >
> > The Sonic Arts Gallery is open to the public Thursday
> > thru Sunday, 12 to 5 pm, every week. You and anyone else
> > are welcome to drop by. And microtonalists can make
> > arrangements thru Jonathan for visits at hours when
> > it's not officially open, and all of the instruments
> > are available for use at the Gallery for anyone who
> > would like to join in the recording.
>
> It's great to hear this is still happening, monz. I must
> say I was very impressed with the CDs of improvisations you
> and Jonathan G. gave me when you were visiting. As essential
> and enjoyable as regular, formal concerts are, for my money
> I must say I prefer an active improv scene 2:1.
>
> -Carl
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <jszanto@...> wrote:

> > As essential and enjoyable as regular, formal concerts are,
> > for my money I must say I prefer an active improv scene 2:1.
>
> Always good to know one's biases up front. [snip]
> P.S. Always worked for Phish and the Dead, too.

Note, I didn't mean that necessarily in all contexts, but
specifically in the microtonal case. How many times do we
really want to hear Schneider play Barstow? I've heard him
do it FOUR times, without even trying.

The other issue is the lack of mature mircotonal genres.
Composing individual pieces in a cloister and having them
premiered at a concert is fine and well, but the resulting
ecosystem is fragile. You hire or cajole seven pianists
into playing Canright's piece, and they go home and say
"that was neat" and never do it again. Canright's piece,
meanwhile, is an adaptation of a piece he wrote for guitar
in the '80s, and is the only piece we've heard from Canright
since. It's long been a favorite of mine, by the way, but
you (hopefully) see my point. A healthy improv scene has
features like:

* It's participatory. Everyone's involved

* It's not slowed down by perfectionism. The S/N ratio
suffers as a result, but S/N isn't a major problem in
microtonal music today. Quantity is.

* It's not slowed down by competition between composers.
backstabing for meager grant funds, etc.

* It can happen once a week, not just once a year.

* It encourages experimentation, and later, a mix of
experiments that have worked well in the past, leading to
(possibly) the development of new genres. Jazz, for
instance, eventually became a formal genre with functional
harmony rules, established masters, school curricula and
so on. But first, it was a healthy ecosystem of
improvisatory gatherings.

I would even suggest that the genesis of jazz and of American
music in general is a good place to look for inspiration for
microtonal music in the 21st century.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <joemonz@...> wrote:

> ... and here's some more unsoliticted free advertising:

uh, that's "unsolicited" ...

To paraphrase Lewis Black: today in San Diego, it's so hot ...
"i have not been able to complete a sentence in my own head" ...

reference (get it before a "terms of use violation"
makes it disappear!):

http://www.ilike.com/artist/Lewis+Black/track/The+Coldest+Winter+EVER!

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com/tonescape.aspx
Tonescape microtonal music software

I remember when Aaron Johnson first came out to visit me
in Berkeley, he freaked when he saw my CD collection.
I played him a bunch of stuff, and the thing he said he
really wanted to hear more of was Bill Wesley's CD.

Bill's mbira business seems to be growing quite nicely,
and that's very good to see. And his light show at
Microfest 2001 (or whatever the LA one is called) was
simply mind-blowing. He builds 5- and 7-way kaleidoscopes
by hand. Check out these photos:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/52441047@N00/

Now imagine those moving and morphing in response to mbira
music where the mbira has 120 keys. And it really is
responsive to the music, since it's controlled by hand, not
by a 10-band vocoder with primitive peak detection, as all
the mainstream media players use for their visualizations.

But I digress,

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <joemonz@...> wrote:
>
> Hi David,
>
> Jonathan and Brink have been mastering one CD after another
> of mp3's of their improvs, which they sell for $10 apiece.
> I'm sure it would be ok to put some of it on the internet.
>
> I'll ask if i can upload some of it to my website,
> which BTW already does contain some really good stuff
> from Bill Wesley and Prent Rodgers:
>
> http://tonalsoft.com/downloads/free-music.aspx
>
> Bill's "nail violin" has to be heard to be believed.
>
> -monz
> http://tonalsoft.com/tonescape.aspx
> Tonescape microtonal music software

Carl,

My take on this is not a slam on improvisation per se. There are some very exciting improvising musicians centered in the San Diego area - very active, and translating that improvisation into a myriad of groups, recording projects, and tours. I tend to think of this umbrella:

http://www.trummerflora.com/

I'm sorry I can't devote too much time for a reply. Many of your points have merit, and I'm not bringing this up to denigrate anyone. I've always felt, however, that for all the talk, and all the occasional flurry, what we've lacked is not the fun of noodling around (which is there in spades), but in concrete musical artists with bodies of work.

> How many times do we
> really want to hear Schneider play Barstow? I've heard him
> do it FOUR times, without even trying.

That is a weak response. They do more than one concert a year, and in about a 10-year period he has built an ensemble of instruments that is more than half-way through the entire Partch instrumentarium. He can now perform all Partch works, on viable replica instruments, up to the composition "The Bewitched". That takes a lot of time, effort, money, and drive. I have many quibbles with him on certain artistic levels, but as an example of someone who is getting things done, it's a good one.

> The other issue is the lack of mature mircotonal genres.
> Composing individual pieces in a cloister and having them
> premiered at a concert is fine and well, but the resulting
> ecosystem is fragile.

Of course. You have to stick with it. Kind of like Kraig Grady did in Los Angeles for over 20 years.

> * It's participatory. Everyone's involved

Just like drum circles.

> * It's not slowed down by perfectionism. The S/N ratio
> suffers as a result, but S/N isn't a major problem in
> microtonal music today. Quantity is.

As they say, my mileage varies.

> * It encourages experimentation, and later, a mix of
> experiments that have worked well in the past, leading to
> (possibly) the development of new genres.

And probably just as often, it tends to be navel-gazing, post-hippy meanderings. I have yet to ever be blown away by a microtonal improvisatory ensemble.

> I would even suggest that the genesis of jazz and of American
> music in general is a good place to look for inspiration for
> microtonal music in the 21st century.

Maybe so. It just seems that, 35 years after the death of someone like Harry Partch, there is an incredible void. I often think no one has the stomach for the hard work that the earlier generation of microtonal musicians were willing to put up with.

Meh. Best of luck to everyone!

Cheers,
Jon

> Bill's "nail violin" has to be heard to be believed.

I just saw a video of it on youtube!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBeyKi9dEKc

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <carl@...> wrote:
>
> > Bill's "nail violin" has to be heard to be believed.
>
> I just saw a video of it on youtube!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBeyKi9dEKc
>
> -Carl

I am _so_ glad to see that Bill's performances are
getting out there on youtube! Thanks, Carl.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com/tonescape.aspx
Tonescape microtonal music software

On Aug 10, 2009, at 8:59 PM, Carl Lumma wrote:
> > Bill's "nail violin" has to be heard to be believed.
>
> I just saw a video of it on youtube!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBeyKi9dEKc
>

Wow, this is truely impressive!

Torsten