A new oldest musical instrument

Flute in SW Germany with
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8117915.stm

I have access to the Nature article and they say:

"The preserved portion of flute 1 from Hohle Fels has a length of 21.8 cm and a diameter of about 8 mm (Fig. 1). Comparisons with modern specimens indicate that the unmodified radius had a length of roughly 34 cm. The surfaces of the flute and the structure of the bone are in excellent condition and reveal many details about the manufacture of the flute. The flute has five finger holes. The maker carved two deep, V-shaped notches into one end of the instrument, presumably to form the proximal end of the flute, into which the musician blew. This end of the flute corresponds to the proximal end of the radius. The other end of the flute is broken in the middle of the most distal of the five finger holes. Several centimetres of the flute are missing from this end. As many as four very fine lines were incised near the finger holes. These precisely carved markings probably reflect measurements used to indicate where the finger holes were to be carved using chipped-stone tools. Only the partly preserved, and most distal, of the five finger holes lacks such markings."

It is rather remarkable that the hole spacing is clearly non-equal. However, since the end of the flute is missing it is tricky to make any exact statements about tuning (not to mention the complexity of woodwind acoustics anyway).

Kind of unfortunate - to the extent you have to ask 'what the hell were they thinking' - that they chose to associate a five-hole prehistoric end-blown flute with 'The Star-Spangled Banner' in the press release ...
~~~T~~~

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Dent" <stringph@...> wrote:
>
>
> Flute in SW Germany with
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8117915.stm
>
> I have access to the Nature article and they say:
>
> "The preserved portion of flute 1 from Hohle Fels has a length of 21.8 cm and a diameter of about 8 mm (Fig. 1). Comparisons with modern specimens indicate that the unmodified radius had a length of roughly 34 cm. The surfaces of the flute and the structure of the bone are in excellent condition and reveal many details about the manufacture of the flute. The flute has five finger holes. The maker carved two deep, V-shaped notches into one end of the instrument, presumably to form the proximal end of the flute, into which the musician blew. This end of the flute corresponds to the proximal end of the radius. The other end of the flute is broken in the middle of the most distal of the five finger holes. Several centimetres of the flute are missing from this end. As many as four very fine lines were incised near the finger holes. These precisely carved markings probably reflect measurements used to indicate where the finger holes were to be carved using chipped-stone tools. Only the partly preserved, and most distal, of the five finger holes lacks such markings."
>
> It is rather remarkable that the hole spacing is clearly non-equal. However, since the end of the flute is missing it is tricky to make any exact statements about tuning (not to mention the complexity of woodwind acoustics anyway).
>
> Kind of unfortunate - to the extent you have to ask 'what the hell were they thinking' - that they chose to associate a five-hole prehistoric end-blown flute with 'The Star-Spangled Banner' in the press release ...
> ~~~T~~~
>
I thought it amazing that the first flute carved of vulture bone sounded pretty much like our major scale 1 2 3 5 6 and 8. Of course, one could argue that the chosen melody is a modern 'prejudice', but with so little notes to choose from, I think this is a reasonable call. (Perhaps next they'll get Kenny G to play "the star spangled banner", followed by "Do the locomotion"?)

Rick

----- Original Message ----- From: "rick_ballan" <rick_ballan@...>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 25 June, 2009 11:32
Subject: [tuning] Re: A new oldest musical instrument

> I thought it amazing that the first flute carved of vulture bone > sounded pretty much like our major scale 1 2 3 5 6 and 8. Of course, > one could argue that the chosen melody is a modern 'prejudice', but > with so little notes to choose from, I think this is a reasonable > call. (Perhaps next they'll get Kenny G to play "the star spangled > banner", followed by "Do the locomotion"?)

Yeah, it's E flat pentatonic major; the same melody is in the NPR feature. I said "diatonic", which was a bit vague.

So maybe humans, or one of our long-lost relatives in genus Homo, could've discovered Pythagorean or even 5-limit just tuning earlier than we thought...

Jim French pretty much convinced me these were reed instruments. one has only try to play these things as flutes. I have recordings of him BTW playing them as reed instruments
--

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

This flute thing has been around for years actually. Claiming to be a major scale. like the rest of NPR it is all lies
--

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

more on the flute. There is absolutely no way those open wholes would produce those tones. picture any wind instrument and open at those lengths . This is a complete farce and very political
--

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

Which 'flute thing' do you mean? The article I linked to is for a new archaeological find in southwest Germany, which has been published this month in Nature. Of course it has 'been around' for about 35,000 years but has only just come to the knowledge of modern humans...

I would agree that the spacing of holes is not unequal enough to be a recognizable (from a modern standpoint) diatonic scale. If you play known tunes on it solo with occasional vibrato it could pass for a rather incompetent diatonic / major. More interesting is the idea that it was essentially different.
~~~T~~~

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> wrote:
>
> This flute thing has been around for years actually. Claiming to be a
> major scale. like the rest of NPR it is all lies
> --
>
>
> /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
> Mesotonal Music from:
> _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>
> _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
> Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>
>
> ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
>
> a momentary antenna as i turn to water
> this evaporates - an island once again
>