just intonation and the golden section via Donald Duck, 1959

Here's a diversion -- Donald In Mathmagic Land!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_ssR7M5Px0

-Carl

Wonderfull :)Thanks for sharing.

2009/6/9 Carl Lumma <carl@...>

>
>
> Here's a diversion -- Donald In Mathmagic Land!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_ssR7M5Px0
>
> -Carl
>
>
>

Thanks Carl~
an early voice sounded a bit like Orson Wells.
Some of the music early on was quite inventive even if ET.
--

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <carl@...> wrote:
>
> Here's a diversion -- Donald In Mathmagic Land!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_ssR7M5Px0

Carl,

I would have loved to have this film available to show my Tertiary Orientation (remedial) Maths classes back in the 70s! Just the kind of stuff to help motivate them to study subjects where the _usual_ applications are too mundane for words.

Anyway, I got a kick out of watching it. Thanks for sharing the link with us.

Regards,
Yahya

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Yahya" <yahya@...> wrote:

> > Here's a diversion -- Donald In Mathmagic Land!
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_ssR7M5Px0
>
> Carl,
>
> I would have loved to have this film available to show my
> Tertiary Orientation (remedial) Maths classes back in the 70s!
> Just the kind of stuff to help motivate them to study subjects
> where the _usual_ applications are too mundane for words.
>
> Anyway, I got a kick out of watching it. Thanks for sharing
> the link with us.
>
> Regards,
> Yahya
>

Hi Yahya! Very good to see you here again. Hope you are
doing well!

-Carl

   The bizarre thing about this...is the Pythagorus apparently was both heavily intrigued by the Golden Section (as appears in the pentagram) and the octave as beautiful proportions.  Only one was adopted widely for music and the other...was not.  I always thought Pythagorus as just the man behind the standard 7-note Pythagorean scale and c^2 = a^2 + b^2...but now I wonder what else he was behind that most people never learned as being by him (such as the Golden Section).

  It's odd then...that so many discussions are about "use of the octave is right because it's Pythagorean" while use of the PHI section (if/when applied to music) would also be Pythagorean.

   I would be interested to learn the history of the Silver Ratio and more advanced types of proportions and Greek means.  For sure...these discoveries need not be pitted against each other as "one is right, so the others must therefore be wrong..."

-Michael

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Michael <djtrancendance@...> wrote:
>
>    The bizarre thing about this...is the Pythagorus apparently
> was both heavily intrigued by the Golden Section (as appears in
> the pentagram) and the octave as beautiful proportions.

I would not assume that any of the historical claims made in
the clip are accurate.

>Only one was adopted widely for music and the other...was not.
>I always thought Pythagorus as just the man behind the standard
>7-note Pythagorean scale and c^2 = a^2 + b^2...

The diatonic scale existed long before Pythagoras. Not much
is known of Pythagoras, including if he even existed. The
pythagoreans were a real group, however.

>   It's odd then...that so many discussions are about "use of
> the octave is right because it's Pythagorean"

Which discussions are those??

-Carl

>>   It's odd then...that so many discussions are about "use of

>> the octave is right because it's Pythagorean"

>Which discussions are those??
     I can't remember them all by wrote memory...but, for example, I recall one involved Rick's saying an equivalent to "Pythagorus had the answer...which is (essentially) the diatonic scale".  I know the two are not exactly he same, but they are very close.  BTW Carl, who is formally given credit for being the first to derive a 7-tone diatonic-type scale (IE with 14-cents-or-less gap per note from the 7-tone 5-limit JI diatonic scale?

>"I would not assume that any of the historical claims made in

the clip are accurate."
  Well then, what are some of the historically accurate claims about the Pythagorean melodic scale and the golden section's origins (and if/if-not they were supported by the Pythagoreans)?

>"Not much is known of Pythagoras, including if he even existed."
  I can believe it...although history sure references the questionably existing man a lot.

-Michael

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Michael <djtrancendance@...> wrote:

>BTW Carl, who is formally given credit for being the first to
>derive a 7-tone diatonic-type scale (IE with 14-cents-or-less
>gap per note from the 7-tone 5-limit JI diatonic scale?

It dates back to prehistory. Its origin is unknown. It was
quite possibly discovered and rediscovered multiple times in
different areas.

> >"I would not assume that any of the historical claims made
> > in the clip are accurate."
>
>   Well then, what are some of the historically accurate claims
> about the Pythagorean melodic scale and the golden section's
> origins (and if/if-not they were supported by the Pythagoreans)?

Wikipedia would be a good start. Also, the Keith Devlin
articles I cited recently. The pythagoreans are generally
credited with the discovery that sqrt(2) is irrational.
It's quite possible they knew about the golden section,
but this clip is the first time I've heard it claimed.

-Carl

This is *exactly* how far I'd trust a Disney production

http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/lemmings.asp

On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Carl Lumma <carl@...> wrote:

>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com <tuning%40yahoogroups.com>, Michael
> <djtrancendance@...> wrote:
>
> >BTW Carl, who is formally given credit for being the first to
> >derive a 7-tone diatonic-type scale (IE with 14-cents-or-less
> >gap per note from the 7-tone 5-limit JI diatonic scale?
>
> It dates back to prehistory. Its origin is unknown. It was
> quite possibly discovered and rediscovered multiple times in
> different areas.
>
> > >"I would not assume that any of the historical claims made
> > > in the clip are accurate."
> >
> > Well then, what are some of the historically accurate claims
> > about the Pythagorean melodic scale and the golden section's
> > origins (and if/if-not they were supported by the Pythagoreans)?
>
> Wikipedia would be a good start. Also, the Keith Devlin
> articles I cited recently. The pythagoreans are generally
> credited with the discovery that sqrt(2) is irrational.
> It's quite possible they knew about the golden section,
> but this clip is the first time I've heard it claimed.
>
> -Carl
>
>
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> This is *exactly* how far I'd trust a Disney production
>
> http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/lemmings.asp
>

Indeed. -Carl