Travelling with Hertz

I also tuned my piano again last night... Same old thing... 12-tEtties...

The "old German A" temperament with the lower fifths, "3 beats every 5
seconds" blah, blah, blah...

I was wondering if anyone knows where I could get a "frequency counter"
that measures Hertz...

I asked at our local music store, and all I got was a blank stare...

[I remember using one YEARS ago -- it has to be 15 (!!) when Johnny
Reinhard and I tuned two pianos at Queens College for a performance of
Charles Ives "Quarter-tone pieces."]

Any suggestions would be appreciated. (Or I'll even buy one, if somebody
has an extra...)

Joseph Pehrson

> [Joseph Pehrson, TD 522.7]
> I was wondering if anyone knows where I could get a
> "frequency counter" that measures Hertz...

I can't help you to find that, Joe. But with a few extra
steps, you should be able to use any electronic tuner that
measures in cents, because the conversion formula is simple.

First you have to pick some reference frequency, from
which to measure all others. Typically it's A-440 or one
of its lower 'octaves', altho I would argue in favor of
middle-C = 256 Hz. See
http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/article/article.htm

So let's say you pick 27.5 Hz, which is the 'A' 4 'octaves'
below middle-C, as your reference. The formula is:

cents = log(Hz/27.5) * (1200/log(2))

Of course, to read the 'octave'-equivalent cents-value
on the tuner you'll have to subtract 1200 cents from your
answer repeatedly until you get a number between 0 and 1200.

Then rounding to the nearest 'hundreds' digits will give you
your 12-EDO semitone, and the remainder will give the precise
tuning in cents.

For a simple example using a just ratio, the C# a 5:8 below
A-440 would be 275 Hz. So

log(275/27.5) * (1200/log(2))
= log(10) * (1200/~.30103)
= 1 * ~3986.3137
= ~3986.3137 cents above your low A

Subtracting 3600 leaves ~386.3137. The nearest cents-value
in even hundreds is 400, which is 4 semitones above 'A', or 'C#'.
The remainder is ~13.6863 cents, which is what you look
for on the tuner.

That's it. Any decent scientific calculator (including the
on-screen one bundled with Windows 95) will do it.

-monz

Joseph L. Monzo Philadelphia monz@juno.com
http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/homepage.html
|"...I had broken thru the lattice barrier..."|
| - Erv Wilson |
--------------------------------------------------

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

I built one made by Heath from a kit some years ago. Although no longer available, as I recall similar already built models from other manufacturers were available for about the same price. It was about $150, I think. You might check the electronics magazines for ads or any store that sells a large variety of electronic parts (not your local Radio Shack).
>>> Joe Monzo <monz@juno.com> 02/08 10:20 AM >>>
From: Joe Monzo <monz@juno.com>

> [Joseph Pehrson, TD 522.7]
> I was wondering if anyone knows where I could get a
> "frequency counter" that measures Hertz...

I can't help you to find that, Joe. But with a few extra
steps, you should be able to use any electronic tuner that
measures in cents, because the conversion formula is simple.

First you have to pick some reference frequency, from
which to measure all others. Typically it's A-440 or one
of its lower 'octaves', altho I would argue in favor of
middle-C = 256 Hz. See
http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/article/article.htm

So let's say you pick 27.5 Hz, which is the 'A' 4 'octaves'
below middle-C, as your reference. The formula is:

cents = log(Hz/27.5) * (1200/log(2))

Of course, to read the 'octave'-equivalent cents-value
on the tuner you'll have to subtract 1200 cents from your
answer repeatedly until you get a number between 0 and 1200.

Then rounding to the nearest 'hundreds' digits will give you
your 12-EDO semitone, and the remainder will give the precise
tuning in cents.

For a simple example using a just ratio, the C# a 5:8 below
A-440 would be 275 Hz. So

log(275/27.5) * (1200/log(2))
= log(10) * (1200/~.30103)
= 1 * ~3986.3137
= ~3986.3137 cents above your low A

Subtracting 3600 leaves ~386.3137. The nearest cents-value
in even hundreds is 400, which is 4 semitones above 'A', or 'C#'.
The remainder is ~13.6863 cents, which is what you look
for on the tuner.

That's it. Any decent scientific calculator (including the
on-screen one bundled with Windows 95) will do it.

-monz

Joseph L. Monzo Philadelphia monz@juno.com
http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/homepage.html
|"...I had broken thru the lattice barrier..."|
| - Erv Wilson |
--------------------------------------------------

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------

Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups.
<a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/SparksValentine2 ">Click Here</a>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
tuning-subscribe@onelist.com - subscribe to the tuning list.
tuning-unsubscribe@onelist.com - unsubscribe from the tuning list.
tuning-digest@onelist.com - switch your subscription to digest mode.
tuning-normal@onelist.com - switch your subscription to normal mode.

Joe,

Try doing a websearch or a e-bay search for frequency counter and you will
come up with lots of info. Mostly what you find will be in the test
equipment category which may not be suitable for piano tuning (they may not
be fast enough, or fast enuf and to expensive ($200+)

I believe they also make cheap instrument tuner that can be calibrated with
input from a known frequency source. You could for instance use line output
from your computer to one of these ghizmos using tones generated by csound,
which is extremely accurate. Csound is easy to use at this level.

Darren Burgess

> > [Joseph Pehrson, TD 522.7]
> > I was wondering if anyone knows where I could get a
> > "frequency counter" that measures Hertz...
>
>
> I can't help you to find that, Joe. But with a few extra
> steps, you should be able to use any electronic tuner that
> measures in cents, because the conversion formula is simple.
>
> First you have to pick some reference frequency, from
> which to measure all others. Typically it's A-440 or one
> of its lower 'octaves', altho I would argue in favor of
> middle-C = 256 Hz. See
> http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/article/article.htm
>
>
> So let's say you pick 27.5 Hz, which is the 'A' 4 'octaves'
> below middle-C, as your reference. The formula is:
>
> cents = log(Hz/27.5) * (1200/log(2))
>
> Of course, to read the 'octave'-equivalent cents-value
> on the tuner you'll have to subtract 1200 cents from your
> answer repeatedly until you get a number between 0 and 1200.
>
> Then rounding to the nearest 'hundreds' digits will give you
> your 12-EDO semitone, and the remainder will give the precise
> tuning in cents.
>
>
> For a simple example using a just ratio, the C# a 5:8 below
> A-440 would be 275 Hz. So
>
> log(275/27.5) * (1200/log(2))
> = log(10) * (1200/~.30103)
> = 1 * ~3986.3137
> = ~3986.3137 cents above your low A
>
> Subtracting 3600 leaves ~386.3137. The nearest cents-value
> in even hundreds is 400, which is 4 semitones above 'A', or 'C#'.
> The remainder is ~13.6863 cents, which is what you look
> for on the tuner.
>
>
> That's it. Any decent scientific calculator (including the
> on-screen one bundled with Windows 95) will do it.
>
>
> -monz
>
> Joseph L. Monzo Philadelphia monz@juno.com
> http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/homepage.html
> |"...I had broken thru the lattice barrier..."|
> | - Erv Wilson |
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
> Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
> Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups.
> <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/SparksValentine2 ">Click Here</a>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
> email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
> tuning-subscribe@onelist.com - subscribe to the tuning list.
> tuning-unsubscribe@onelist.com - unsubscribe from the tuning list.
> tuning-digest@onelist.com - switch your subscription to digest mode.
> tuning-normal@onelist.com - switch your subscription to normal mode.
>
>

John F. Sprague wrote:

> I built one made by Heath from a kit some years ago. Although no longer available, as I recall similar already built models from other manufacturers were available for about the same price. It was about $150, I think. You might check the electronics magazines for ads or any store that sells a large variety of electronic parts (not your local Radio Shack).

> > [Joseph Pehrson, TD 522.7]
> > I was wondering if anyone knows where I could get a
> > "frequency counter" that measures Hertz...

Those HeathKits also came with schematics and detailed construction
instructions. With the schematic alone, one would have a pretty good
basic design to work from and could add a few improvements, given that
better components are available more inexpensively nowadays versus back
when that particular HeathKit was designed.

--
Bye for now

Allan Myhara
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

There are plenty of frequency counters available in electronics and test
equipment sites. Many are available used. Here's just one I found:

http://www.alfaelectronics.com/FC1200.HTM

Alfa Electronics-FC-1200 Frequency Counter 129.95

These handheld frequency counters have built-in microprocessor and measure
very wide frequency range from 10 Hz to 1.25 GHz (FC-1200) or 10 Hz to 2.5
GHz (FC-2500) with 0.1 Hz resolution in the low frequency range. They also
feature data hold, relative mode, period and data memory for maximum,
minimum and average. Their high accuracy and sensitivity make them ideal
for field service and bentchtop use.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^ Bill Alves email: alves@hmc.edu ^
^ Harvey Mudd College URL: http://www2.hmc.edu/~alves/ ^
^ 301 E. Twelfth St. (909)607-4170 (office) ^
^ Claremont CA 91711 USA (909)607-7600 (fax) ^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^