Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Re: [tuning] Re: Model for evaluation of dissonance of dyads vs. experimental (Plomp&Levelt

http://www.traxinspace.com/song/43022
--Mike's
PHI derived scale slipped past the public. Traxinspace has been real
dead - that is --not a bad number of plays anymore - for what its worth
it charted to 27th on the general --charts and is still rising.

I noticed that as well...it's doing as well or better than my "old politically correct" x/16 harmonic series based scale (called the "harmonicious" scale) did.

While I know the math is "wrong" relative to JI, it seems in this case and many other tests I have done, that the public who does not know the math (and is lead primarily by ear) don't have a problem with the scale (note their was no external promotion done on said above song).

To say the very least, I think it proves the suspected "PHI indicates maximum dissonance" theory mentioned on this list is wrong: that the are indeed possible scales under the PHI tuning that work in the sense of promoting a feeling of relaxation/resolve.

Of course, the question is are there better scales within the PHI TUNING (not scale, tuning) than the one I found...and that's why I'm so eager to get other people on this list into trying to find good PHI-based scales.

-Michael

--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:

From: Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Model for evaluation of dissonance of dyads vs. experimental (Plomp&Levelt
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 3:02 PM

Thanks Carl,

So 22 or 31 ET is close enough for practicality?

Then does 22 ET have that 7-limit chord that has been discussed so much around here?

(It has 4 notes that I've see as a series of ratios)

You might be interested in this:

http://www.traxinsp ace.com/song/ 43022

Mike's PHI derived scale slipped past the public. Traxinspace has been real dead - that is not a bad number of plays anymore - for what its worth it charted to 27th on the general charts and is still rising.

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Carl Lumma <carl@...> wrote:

--- In tuning@yahoogroups. com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@ ...> wrote:

>> 1:1, 3:2, 4:3, 5:3, 5:4, 6:5, 7:4, 7:5, 8:5, and 7:6

[snip]

> How would I get a tuning with these intervals available?

> Is there one already existing?

Harmonics 4-8 (scale is 1/1 5/4 3/2 7/4), when copied out by

octaves, actually contains all of these intervals within it.

e.g. 7/6 is the distance between 3/2 and 7/4.

So that's a start. But what if you want to be able to

articulate each of Benade's intervals from a single tonic?

The most obvious try is to pour his intervals directly into

a scale, like this:

1/1 7/6 6/5 5/4 4/3 7/5 3/2 8/5 5/3 7/4

So now you've got them all above one tonic... and only one

tonic. That is, there is no 7/6 above 5/4 in this scale.

This leads to the cross set kind of scale Caleb and I have

been discussing recently:

http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/tuning/ message/81366

Now you can find all of Benade's intervals above any one of

them. There _will_ be a 7/6 available above 5/4 (35/24).

But this only goes one level deep. There is no 7/6 above

35/24. You're still in a fixed universe one modulation

wide.

To be able to modulate as many levels as you want, we need

to look at equal temperaments. Just find an ET with good

7-limit accuracy and away you go (since Benade's intervals

are nearly a complete list of the 7-limit -- only 10/7 is

missing). ETs like 22, 31, 41, 72, and 99 come to mind.

Sometimes to get acceptable accuracy with an ET, one needs

a lot of notes. What if there were a middle ground, that

offered almost as much modulation power as an ET, but with

better tuning accuracy and fewer notes?

Well, there is. They're called "linear temperaments". Or

more accurately, "rank 2 regular temperaments".

The scales I recommended to Caleb progress through the above

reasoning. He's starting with a cross set, and then working

up to linear temperaments (that is, if he doesn't fall in

love and wind up composing for the rest of his life in the

cross set).

-Carl

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

🔗Charles Lucy <lucy@...>

🔗Michael Sheiman <djtrancendance@...>

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

🔗chrisvaisvil@...

🔗Charles Lucy <lucy@...>

I am not clear what you mean by equal.

All LucyTuning intervals are derived by the addition and/or subtraction of single or multiple Large (L) (approx 191 cents) and small (s) (approx 122.5 cents) intervals, which can be expressed as cents or integer ratios.

When the result of the additions and/or subtractions is greater than 1200 cents or (5L+2s) the value is reduced by octave(s) (i.e. (5L+2s) or 1200 cents) until the result falls into the first octave i.e. > 0 and < 1200 cents.

You can use LucyTuning for any key, and you can modulate and transpose at liberty between keys.

There is no limit to the number of steps of fourth and fifths which can be used to generate new intervals.

If your question means equal divisions of the octave (edo)

The intervals used in LucyTuning can be very roughly approximated by using 88edo and more accurately by using 1420edo.

see:

http://www.lucytune.com/tuning/equal_temp.html

for comparison to equal temperaments.

On 19 Feb 2009, at 15:14, chrisvaisvil@... wrote:

> On my list.
>
> Am I right in supposing all lucy tunings are equal except for which > key signatures they will support?
>
> And if so what is the furthest distance from a home key the scheme > supports assuming I have this right
>
> Thanks Charles!
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
>
> From: Charles Lucy
> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 01:21:57 +0000
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Model for evaluation of dissonance of > dyads vs. experimental (Plomp&Level
>
> Go for it Chris!
>
>
> On 19 Feb 2009, at 00:42, Chris Vaisvil wrote:
>
>> Ought to try a Lucy tuned piece at traxinspace just for grins and >> see if it is noticed as being "different"
>>
>> Considering the audience is a bunch of composers it just might be.
>>
>> I know I heard the difference though it was hard to put my finger >> right on it.
>>
>>
>> Charles - I'll compose one - unless you'd like us to post one you >> have already for you.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>
> Charles Lucy
> lucy@...
>
> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>
> for information on LucyTuning go to:
> http://www.lucytune.com
>
> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>
>
Charles Lucy
lucy@...

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

Hi Charles,

What I mean is that you have... 42? tunings in the package.

I thought that perhaps the difference between them is the keys they support
(thus X flat and Y sharp).
And that implies that there is limitation as to the furthest key modulation
you can do relative to some in-tune base key.

Otherwise if one could modulate freely and be in tune there would be no need
for so many scala files.

That's what I meant and I was trying to get some idea as to what is the
common practice furthest modulation in say number of 5ths you can move the
tonic from the base tuning.

And what IS the base tuning?

Thanks,

Chris

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Charles Lucy <lucy@...> wrote:

> I am not clear what you mean by equal.
>
> All LucyTuning intervals are derived by the addition and/or subtraction of
> single or multiple Large (L) (approx 191 cents) and small (s) (approx 122.5
> cents) intervals, which can be expressed as cents or integer ratios.
>
> When the result of the additions and/or subtractions is greater than 1200
> cents or (5L+2s) the value is reduced by octave(s) (i.e. (5L+2s) or 1200
> cents) until the result falls into the first octave i.e. > 0 and < 1200
> cents.
>
> You can use LucyTuning for any key, and you can modulate and transpose at
> liberty between keys.
>
> There is no limit to the number of steps of fourth and fifths which can be
> used to generate new intervals.
>
>
>
>
> If your question means equal divisions of the octave (edo)
>
> The intervals used in LucyTuning can be very roughly approximated by using
> 88edo and more accurately by using 1420edo.
>
> see:
>
> http://www.lucytune.com/tuning/equal_temp.html
>
> for comparison to equal temperaments.
>
>
> On 19 Feb 2009, at 15:14, chrisvaisvil@... wrote:
>
> On my list.
>
> Am I right in supposing all lucy tunings are equal except for which key
> signatures they will support?
>
> And if so what is the furthest distance from a home key the scheme supports
> assuming I have this right
>
> Thanks Charles!
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> ------------------------------
> *From*: Charles Lucy
> *Date*: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 01:21:57 +0000
> *To*: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> *Subject*: Re: [tuning] Re: Model for evaluation of dissonance of dyads
> vs. experimental (Plomp&Level
>
> Go for it Chris!
>
> On 19 Feb 2009, at 00:42, Chris Vaisvil wrote:
>
> Ought to try a Lucy tuned piece at traxinspace just for grins and see if it
> is noticed as being "different"
>
> Considering the audience is a bunch of composers it just might be.
>
> I know I heard the difference though it was hard to put my finger right on
> it.
>
>
> Charles - I'll compose one - unless you'd like us to post one you have
> already for you.
>
> Chris
>
>
> Charles Lucy
> lucy@...
>
> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>
> for information on LucyTuning go to:
> http://www.lucytune.com
>
> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Charles Lucy
> lucy@...
>
> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>
> for information on LucyTuning go to:
> http://www.lucytune.com
>
> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>

🔗Charles Lucy <lucy@...>

OK Chris;

Answers (not necessarily in your order of asking):

Tuning Base is A=440, 220, 880 etc.

There are more than 42 tunings in the package.

Obviously it would be possible to add an infinite number of others, and I shall at some time in the future add to the codes, when I find time , and necessity.

I have not used the type of arrangement that Manuel uses for his Scala site for the following reasons:

a) I wish to ensure that LucyTuned instruments all use A at 440Hz for their reference pitch, so that they can play together in tune with eachother.

b) To make it easy for users to LucyTune their existing midi files by selecting which notes they wish to sound, and to sound these at LucyTuned pitches assuming that A = 440 Hz.

c) To maintain pitch consistency between diverse applications e.g. Melodyne, Cubase, Logic etc. and acoustic instruments e.g. fretted, strings, horns, woodwind etc.

d) To enable knowledgeable users to add their own LucyTunings by modifying the values in their applications, e.g. Logic, if they need them by providing all the values and my methods of calculation, on the lucytune.com site.

Nevertheless there are some other "LucyTuned" tuning files and codes floating around on the net, which are have been produced by others, which may contain erroneous data, and are outside and beyond my control.

I don't believe that any of them were produced with any malicious intent, nevertheless they won't necessarily match the "correct" frequencies.

So if you want the "realthing" and "originals" get them from:

http://www.lucytune.com

Here is the readme:
LucyTuning MicroTuning Codes for Logic 7.

To make life easy for users who wish to use LucyTuning with Logic 7 on Apple Mac OSX,
to retune their virtual instruments, I have constructed a number of microttuning files,
which can be added to the supplied tuning tables.

Download the .sit file from:

http://www.lucytune.com/downloads/lucy4logic7.sit

decompress and follow the directions in this readme file:

Move all the .scl files in this folder into the folder
/Library/Logic/Tuning Tables/

If you find that this folder is locked Click on the folder and hold down
left Apple Command Key and letter I.
(This will allow you to unlock the folder, and may request your master
password.)

Move the .scl files into the folder and fire up Logic 7. You
will now have some extra tunings to play with, which will follow a
simple consonance/dissonance pattern. Notes closer on the spiral of
fourths and fifths will be more consonant than those which are separated
by more steps of fourths or fifths.
All notes will be retuned from the reference pitch A4 = 440Hz.

To use these tunings in Logic 7 go to File/Song Settings/Tuning in Logic
7 and select them.

For more information and how to create and use other tunings see:

http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html

and

http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/yamaha_02.html

to understand which notes are used and the reasoning behind the sequence
of the choices of tunings.

These tunings using Logic 7 have been sucessfully tested with EFM1, ESM, ES1, ES2, ESE,
ESP, EVB3, EVD6, EVOC 20 PolySynth, EVP88, GarageBand Instruments, Sculpture and EXS24.

For Cameleon .tun flies may be selected and loaded by clicking on the small red button
near the lower left corner of the control window.

For Melodyne 3, earlier Melodyne versions, and Cubase SX you can find the matching files
by downloading lnks at the top of the page from:

http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html

Contents of Archive: 50 files of 49 tunings
[(1-52) less 7, 14 & 21 which would be dupes of 1,2, & 4 respectiveley)]
+ this readmefile
List of Tunings:
0A440Lucy01&07Tuned 0b5s RootKeyA = CC#DD#EFF#GG#AA#B ModeCode = 11/0/ F to A#
0A440Lucy02Tuned 5b0s RootKeyA = CDbDEbEFGbGAbABbB ModeCode = 11/0/ Gb to B
0A440Lucy03Tuned 4b1s RootKeyA = CDbDEbEFF#GAbAB ModeCode = 11/0/ Db to F#
0A440Lucy04Tuned 3b2s RootKeyA = CC#DEbEFF#GAbAB ModeCode = 11/0/ Ab to C#
0A440Lucy05Tuned 2b3s RootKeyA = CC#DEbEFF#GG#ABbB ModeCode = 11/0/ Eb to G#
0A440Lucy06Tuned 1b4s RootKeyA = CC#DD#EFF#GG#ABbB ModeCode = 11/0/ Bb to D#
0A440Lucy08Tuned 0b6s RootKeyA = CC#DD#EE#F#GG#AA#B ModeCode = 11/0/ C to E#
0A440Lucy09Tuned 0b7s RootKeyA = B#C#DD#EE#F#GG#AA#B ModeCode = 11/0/ G to B#
0A440Lucy10Tuned 0b8s RootKeyA = B#C#DD#EE#F#FxG#AA#B ModeCode = 11/0/ D to Fx
0A440Lucy11Tuned 0b9s RootKeyA = B#C#CxD#EE#F#FxG#AA#B ModeCode = 11/0/ A to Cx
0A440Lucy12Tuned 0b10s RootKeyA (resetAtoGx=-54.1) B#C#CxD#EE#F#FxG#GxA#B 11/0/ E to Gx
0A440Lucy13Tuned 0b11s RootKeyA (resetAtoGx=-54.1) plays B#C#CxD#DxE#F#FxG#GxA#B 11/0/ B to Dx
0A440Lucy15Tuned 6b0s RootKeyA = CDbDEbEFGbGAbABbCb ModeCode = 11/0/ Cb to E
0A440Lucy16Tuned 7b0s RootKeyA = CDbDEbFbFGbGAbACb ModeCode = 11/0/ Fb to A
0A440Lucy17Tuned 8b0s RootKeyA (resetAtoBbb=+54.1) plays CDbDEbFbFGbGAbBbbBbCb 11/0/ Bbb to D
0A440Lucy18Tuned 9b0s RootKeyA (resetAtoBbb=+54.1) plays CDbEbbEbFbFGbGAbBbbCb 11/0/ Ebb to G
0A440Lucy19Tuned 10b0s RootKeyA (resetAtoBbb=+54.1) plays CDbEbbEbFbFGbAbbAbBbbBbCb 11/0/ Abb to C
0A440Lucy20Tuned 11b0s RootKeyA (resetAtoBbb=+54.1) plays DbbDbEbbEbFbFGbAbbAbBbbCb 11/0/ Dbb to F
0A440Lucy22Tuned 4bGs RootKeyA = CDbDEbEFGbGG#ABbB ModeCode = 14/31314/ Gb to G# no AbF#C#
0A440Lucy23Tuned 4bDs RootKeyA = CDbDD#EFGbGAbABbB ModeCode = 15/4131415/ Gb to D# no EbF#C#G#
0A440Lucy24Tuned 4bCs RootKeyA = CC#DEbEFGbGAbABbB ModeCode = 13/213/ Gb to C# no DbF#
0A440Lucy25Tuned Ab4s RootKeyA = CC#DD#EFF#GAbAA#B ModeCode = 13/212/ Ab to A# no BbG#
0A440Lucy26Tuned Gb4s RootKeyA = CC#DD#EFGbGG#AA#B ModeCode = 16/234513/ Gb to A# no DbAbEbBbF#
0A440Lucy27Tuned Eb4s RootKeyA = CC#DEbEFF#GG#AA#B ModeCode = 13/213/ Eb to A# no BbD#
0A440Lucy28Tuned Db5s RootKeyA = CDbDD#EFF#GG#AA#B ModeCode = 15/23413/ Db to A# no AbEbBbC#
0A440Lucy29TunedBbAbGbCsDs RootKeyA = CC#DD#EFGbGAbABbB ModeCode = 15/241315/ Gb to Ds no DbEbF#G#
0A440Lucy30TunedBbEbGbCsGs RootKeyA = CC#DEbEFGbGG#ABbB ModeCode = 14/2313/ Gb to G# no DbAbF#
0A440Lucy31Tuned 3b2s RootKeyA = CC#DEbEFGbGAbAA#B ModeCode = 16/25131516/ Gb to A# no DbBbF#G#D#
0A440Lucy32Tuned 3b2s RootKeyA = CDbDD#EFF#GAbABbB ModeCode = 14/31314/ Db to D# no EbC#G#
0A440Lucy33Tuned 3b2s RootKeyA = CDbDD#EFGbGG#ABbB ModeCode = 15/341314/ Gb to D# no AbEbF#C#
0A440Lucy34Tuned 3b2s RootKeyA = CDbDD#EFGbGAbAA#B ModeCode = 16/45131415/ Gb to A# no EbBbF#C#G#
0A440Lucy35Tuned 3b2s RootKeyA = CDbDEbEFF#GG#ABbB ModeCode = 13/212/ Db to G# no AbC#
0A440Lucy36Tuned 3b2s RootKeyA = CDbDEbEFF#GAbAA#B ModeCode = 15/4131415/ Db to A# no BbC#G#D#
0A440Lucy37Tuned 3b2s RootKeyA = CDbDEbEFGbGG#AA#B ModeCode = 16/35131416/ Gb to A# no AbBbF#C#D#
0A440Lucy38Tuned 2b3s RootKeyA = CDbDEbEFF#GG#AA#B ModeCode = 15/351315/ Db to A# no AbBbC#D#
0A440Lucy39Tuned 2b3s RootKeyA = CDbDD#EFGbGG#AA#B ModeCode = 16/3451314/ Gb to A# no AbEbBbF#C#
0A440Lucy40Tuned 2b3s RootKeyA = CDbDD#EFF#GAbAA#B ModeCode = 15/341314/ Db to A# no EbBbC#G#
0A440Lucy41Tuned 2b3s RootKeyA = CDbDD#EFF#GG#ABbB ModeCode = 14/2313/ Db to D# no AbEbC#
0A440Lucy42Tuned 2b3s RootKeyA = CC#DEbEFGbGG#AA#B ModeCode = 16/2351316/ Gb to A# no DbAbBbF#D#
0A440Lucy43Tuned 2b3s RootKeyA = CC#DEbEFF#GAbAA#B ModeCode = 14/31314/ Ab to A# no BbG#D#
0A440Lucy44Tuned 2b3s RootKeyA = CC#DD#EFGbGAbAA#B ModeCode = 16/2451315/ Gb to A# no DbEbBbF#G#
0A440Lucy45Tuned 2b3s RootKeyA = CC#DD#EFGbGG#ABbB ModeCode = 15/23413/ Gb to D# no DbAbEbF#
0A440Lucy46Tuned 2b3s RootKeyA = CC#DD#EFF#GAbABbB ModeCode = 13/213/ Ab to D# no EbG#
0A440Lucy47Tuned 4b2s RootKeyA (resetAtoBbb=+54.1) plays CC#DEbEFGbGG#BbbBbB 17/23561316/ Bbb to G# no FbCbDbAbAF#
0A440Lucy48Tuned 5b1s RootKeyA (resetAtoBbb=+54.1) plays CC#DEbEFGbGAbBbbBbB 16/2351316/ Bbb to C# no FbCbDbAF#
0A440Lucy49Tuned 6b0s RootKeyA (resetAtoBbb=+54.1) plays CDbDEbEFGbGAbBbbBbB 14/2313/ Bbb to B no FbCbA
0A440Lucy50Tuned 6b1s RootKeyA (resetAtoBbb=+54.1) plays CDbDEbEFF#GAbABbCb 13/213/ Cb to F# no GbB
0A440Lucy51Tuned 3b3s RootKeyA (resetAtoBbb=+54.1) plays CDbDEbEFF#FxG#BbbBbB 22/234611131719202122/ Bbb to Fx no FbCbGbAbGAC#D#A#E#B#
0A440Lucy52Tuned 4b1s RootKeyA = CDbDEbEFGbGAbAA#B ModeCode = 16/513141516/ Gb to A# no BbF#C#G#D#

Mode Code derived from Chain of fifths - Notes closer on the chain are more consonant;
hence the longer the chain the more dissonnant the extremes will sound
Number of steps in chain/missing note/

Bbb Fb Cb Gb Db Ab Eb Bb F C G D A E B F# C# G# D# A# E# B# Fx Cx Gx Dx Ax Ex
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

To learn about scalecoding see: http://www.lucytune.com/new_to_lt/pitch_05.html
For questions and feedback contact me at: queries@...

Charles Lucy Last updated 13th June 2006.

On 19 Feb 2009, at 22:51, Chris Vaisvil wrote:

> Hi Charles,
>
> What I mean is that you have... 42? tunings in the package.
>
> I thought that perhaps the difference between them is the keys they > support (thus X flat and Y sharp).
> And that implies that there is limitation as to the furthest key > modulation you can do relative to some in-tune base key.
>
> Otherwise if one could modulate freely and be in tune there would be > no need for so many scala files.
>
> That's what I meant and I was trying to get some idea as to what is > the common practice furthest modulation in say number of 5ths you > can move the tonic from the base tuning.
>
> And what IS the base tuning?
>

>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Charles Lucy <lucy@...> > wrote:
> I am not clear what you mean by equal.
>
>
> All LucyTuning intervals are derived by the addition and/or > subtraction of single or multiple Large (L) (approx 191 cents) and > small (s) (approx 122.5 cents) intervals, which can be expressed as > cents or integer ratios.
>
> When the result of the additions and/or subtractions is greater than > 1200 cents or (5L+2s) the value is reduced by octave(s) (i.e. (5L> +2s) or 1200 cents) until the result falls into the first octave > i.e. > 0 and < 1200 cents.
>
> You can use LucyTuning for any key, and you can modulate and > transpose at liberty between keys.
>
> There is no limit to the number of steps of fourth and fifths which > can be used to generate new intervals.
>
>
>
>
> If your question means equal divisions of the octave (edo)
>
> The intervals used in LucyTuning can be very roughly approximated by > using 88edo and more accurately by using 1420edo.
>
> see:
>
> http://www.lucytune.com/tuning/equal_temp.html
>
> for comparison to equal temperaments.
>
>
> On 19 Feb 2009, at 15:14, chrisvaisvil@... wrote:
>
>> On my list.
>>
>> Am I right in supposing all lucy tunings are equal except for which >> key signatures they will support?
>>
>> And if so what is the furthest distance from a home key the scheme >> supports assuming I have this right
>>
>> Thanks Charles!
>>
>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>
>>
>> From: Charles Lucy
>> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 01:21:57 +0000
>> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Model for evaluation of dissonance of >> dyads vs. experimental (Plomp&Level
>>
>> Go for it Chris!
>>
>>
>> On 19 Feb 2009, at 00:42, Chris Vaisvil wrote:
>>
>>> Ought to try a Lucy tuned piece at traxinspace just for grins and >>> see if it is noticed as being "different"
>>>
>>> Considering the audience is a bunch of composers it just might be.
>>>
>>> I know I heard the difference though it was hard to put my finger >>> right on it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Charles - I'll compose one - unless you'd like us to post one you >>> have already for you.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Charles Lucy
>> lucy@...
>>
>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>
>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>
>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Charles Lucy
> lucy@...
>
> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>
> for information on LucyTuning go to:
> http://www.lucytune.com
>
> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>
>
Charles Lucy
lucy@...

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

🔗Charles Lucy <lucy@...>

Well usually a key having 5 sharps would be G-D-A-E-B 5 steps along the spiral of fifths from C.

therefore B Natural Major or G# minor .

Although this may not be the only practical way to think about it, as you really need to consider what notes you wish to use in your composition carefully especially if you are experimenting with "unusual" scales.

The most obviously consonant result may not be the most appropriate for your musical purposes.

Using Logic or similar DAW's, it is often instructive to experiment with various transpositions and different tuning codes, which you can easily switch to explore options by how they sound.

Having found the LucyTuning which sounds best for your purpose often reveals that the notenames that you initially imaged you wanted to use can be "improved", and an underlying alternative harmonic structure can become apparent.

On 20 Feb 2009, at 01:30, Chris Vaisvil wrote:

> I am sorry...I must not have been clear.
>
> I did get all material from your site.
>
> What I want to know is how far up (or down) the spirals I can go in > common practice.
>
> And when I pick a tuning such as zero flats and 5 sharps - what is > the key from which that spiral starts from?
>
> I know in a way I can figure it out... but its faster to ask.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
>
>
> On T
> ning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
> MARKETPLACE
> From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods
>
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> on Yahoo! Groups
>
> Join him for the
>
> 10 Day Challenge.
>
> .
>
>
>
>
Charles Lucy
lucy@...

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

Charles, are you saying then that the "home" key is indicated by a key
signature embedded in the tuning file name?

Then I am confused when the scale name has flats and sharps. That sort of
combination does not occur in common practice that I know of.

My intent is to improvise so I'm trying to define my space for the
improvisation, similar as to say, restricting myself to E lydian.

I know some people can compose in their head and plan things out in
impressive fashion. Unfortunately for me I am not one of them.

Thanks,

Chris

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 9:07 PM, Charles Lucy <lucy@...> wrote:

> Well usually a key having 5 sharps would be G-D-A-E-B 5 steps along the
> spiral of fifths from C.
>
> therefore B Natural Major or G# minor .
>
> Although this may not be the only practical way to think about it, as you
> really need to consider what notes you wish to use in your composition
> carefully especially if you are experimenting with "unusual" scales.
>
> The most obviously consonant result may not be the most appropriate for
> your musical purposes.
>
> Using Logic or similar DAW's, it is often instructive to experiment with
> various transpositions and different tuning codes, which you can easily
> switch to explore options by how they sound.
>
> Having found the LucyTuning which sounds best for your purpose often
> reveals that the notenames that you initially imaged you wanted to use can
> be "improved", and an underlying alternative harmonic structure can become
> apparent.
>
>
>
>
> On 20 Feb 2009, at 01:30, Chris Vaisvil wrote:
>
> I am sorry...I must not have been clear.
>
> I did get all material from your site.
>
> What I want to know is how far up (or down) the spirals I can go in common
> practice.
>
> And when I pick a tuning such as zero flats and 5 sharps - what is the key
> from which that spiral starts from?
>
> I know in a way I can figure it out... but its faster to ask.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
>
> On T
>>
>> ning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com <tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com> - join
>> the tuning group.
>> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
>> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
>> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
>> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual emails.
>> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>> MARKETPLACE
>> ------------------------------
>> From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13r2o68es/M=493064.12016295.13271503.10835568/D=grplch/S=1705897753:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1235099891/L=/B=s1HSNEPDhC8-/J=1235092691677841/A=5530388/R=0/SIG=11nuutlas/*http://explore.yahoo.com/groups/kraftmealsmadesimple/>
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>>
>> Change settings via the Web</tuning/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJkaGQ2cTA4BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzcwNjA1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTg5Nzc1MwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNzdG5ncwRzdGltZQMxMjM1MDkyNjkx>
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>>
>> Visit Your Group </tuning;_ylc=X3oDMTJiNzR1cmU2BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzcwNjA1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTg5Nzc1MwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNocGYEc3RpbWUDMTIzNTA5MjY5MQ-->
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>> - 10
>> New Files</tuning/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMHM3b2s5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzcwNjA1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTg5Nzc1MwRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTIzNTA5MjY5MQ-->
>>
>> Visit Your Group</tuning;_ylc=X3oDMTJjOWp1cmswBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzcwNjA1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTg5Nzc1MwRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEyMzUwOTI2OTE->
>> New web site?
>>
>> Drive traffic now.<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13obleh8g/M=493064.12016308.12445700.8674578/D=grplch/S=1705897753:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1235099891/L=/B=tFHSNEPDhC8-/J=1235092691677841/A=3848642/R=0/SIG=131eshi2t/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php?o=US2004&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Groups3&s=Y&s2=&s3=&b=50>
>>
>> Get your business
>>
>> on Yahoo! search.
>> Sitebuilder
>>
>> Build a web site<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13odd0hq3/M=493064.12016255.12445662.8674578/D=grplch/S=1705897753:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1235099891/L=/B=tVHSNEPDhC8-/J=1235092691677841/A=4025304/R=0/SIG=12uhb64pb/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting/sitebuilding.php>
>>
>> quickly & easily
>>
>> with Sitebuilder.
>> John McEnroe
>>
>> on Yahoo! Groups<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o7ebd3b/M=493064.12016283.12445687.8674578/D=grplch/S=1705897753:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1235099891/L=/B=tlHSNEPDhC8-/J=1235092691677841/A=5202321/R=0/SIG=11aijbghb/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/allbrangroup>
>>
>> Join him for the
>>
>> 10 Day Challenge.
>> .
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Charles Lucy
> lucy@...
>
> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>
> for information on LucyTuning go to:
> http://www.lucytune.com
>
> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>

🔗Charles Lucy <lucy@...>

Good luck Chris;

Just do your own thing, your own way, and have fun with it!

You don't need to make it complicated unless you wish to get involved in the subtle fine points of harmonic theory.

I have been playing with this stuff for half a lifetime, so I am pretty conversant with how sharps/flats/scales etc. work, yet ultimately it comes down to how does it sound and feel;-)

On 20 Feb 2009, at 02:19, Chris Vaisvil wrote:

> Charles, are you saying then that the "home" key is indicated by a > key signature embedded in the tuning file name?
>

>
>
> Then I am confused when the scale name has flats and sharps. That > sort of combination does not occur in common practice that I know of.
>
> My intent is to improvise so I'm trying to define my space for the > improvisation, similar as to say, restricting myself to E lydian.
>
> I know some people can compose in their head and plan things out in > impressive fashion. Unfortunately for me I am not one of them.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 9:07 PM, Charles Lucy <lucy@...> > wrote:
> Well usually a key having 5 sharps would be G-D-A-E-B 5 steps along > the spiral of fifths from C.
>
>
> therefore B Natural Major or G# minor .
>
> Although this may not be the only practical way to think about it, > as you really need to consider what notes you wish to use in your > composition carefully especially if you are experimenting with > "unusual" scales.
>
> The most obviously consonant result may not be the most appropriate > for your musical purposes.
>
> Using Logic or similar DAW's, it is often instructive to experiment > with various transpositions and different tuning codes, which you > can easily switch to explore options by how they sound.
>
> Having found the LucyTuning which sounds best for your purpose often > reveals that the notenames that you initially imaged you wanted to > use can be "improved", and an underlying alternative harmonic > structure can become apparent.
>
>
>
>
> On 20 Feb 2009, at 01:30, Chris Vaisvil wrote:
>
>> I am sorry...I must not have been clear.
>>
>> I did get all material from your site.
>>
>> What I want to know is how far up (or down) the spirals I can go in >> common practice.
>>
>> And when I pick a tuning such as zero flats and 5 sharps - what is >> the key from which that spiral starts from?
>>
>> I know in a way I can figure it out... but its faster to ask.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> On T
>> ning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
>> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
>> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
>> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
>> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual >> emails.
>> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>> MARKETPLACE
>> From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods
>>
>> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
>> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch >> format to Traditional
>> Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
>> RECENT ACTIVITY
>> 2
>> New Members
>> 10
>> New Files
>> Visit Your Group
>> New web site?
>> Drive traffic now.
>>
>> Get your business
>>
>> on Yahoo! search.
>>
>> Sitebuilder
>> Build a web site
>>
>> quickly & easily
>>
>> with Sitebuilder.
>>
>> John McEnroe
>> on Yahoo! Groups
>>
>> Join him for the
>>
>> 10 Day Challenge.
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Charles Lucy
> lucy@...
>
> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>
> for information on LucyTuning go to:
> http://www.lucytune.com
>
> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>
>
Charles Lucy
lucy@...

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

ok.. but then I don't know what tuning file to use for what sets of keys.

Honestly it seems a bit over complicated to use at its optimum.

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Charles Lucy <lucy@...> wrote:

> Good luck Chris;
>
> Just do your own thing, your own way, and have fun with it!
>
> You don't need to make it complicated unless you wish to get involved in
> the subtle fine points of harmonic theory.
>
> I have been playing with this stuff for half a lifetime, so I am pretty
> conversant with how sharps/flats/scales etc. work, yet ultimately it comes
> down to how does it sound and feel;-)
>
>
>
> On 20 Feb 2009, at 02:19, Chris Vaisvil wrote:
>
> Charles, are you saying then that the "home" key is indicated by a key
> signature embedded in the tuning file name?
>
>
>
>
> Then I am confused when the scale name has flats and sharps. That sort of
> combination does not occur in common practice that I know of.
>
> My intent is to improvise so I'm trying to define my space for the
> improvisation, similar as to say, restricting myself to E lydian.
>
> I know some people can compose in their head and plan things out in
> impressive fashion. Unfortunately for me I am not one of them.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
>
> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 9:07 PM, Charles Lucy <lucy@...> wrote:
>
>> Well usually a key having 5 sharps would be G-D-A-E-B 5 steps along the
>> spiral of fifths from C.
>>
>> therefore B Natural Major or G# minor .
>>
>> Although this may not be the only practical way to think about it, as you
>> really need to consider what notes you wish to use in your composition
>> carefully especially if you are experimenting with "unusual" scales.
>>
>> The most obviously consonant result may not be the most appropriate for
>> your musical purposes.
>>
>> Using Logic or similar DAW's, it is often instructive to experiment with
>> various transpositions and different tuning codes, which you can easily
>> switch to explore options by how they sound.
>>
>> Having found the LucyTuning which sounds best for your purpose often
>> reveals that the notenames that you initially imaged you wanted to use can
>> be "improved", and an underlying alternative harmonic structure can become
>> apparent.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 20 Feb 2009, at 01:30, Chris Vaisvil wrote:
>>
>> I am sorry...I must not have been clear.
>>
>> I did get all material from your site.
>>
>> What I want to know is how far up (or down) the spirals I can go in common
>> practice.
>>
>> And when I pick a tuning such as zero flats and 5 sharps - what is the key
>> from which that spiral starts from?
>>
>> I know in a way I can figure it out... but its faster to ask.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On T
>>>
>>> ning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com <tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com> - join
>>> the tuning group.
>>> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
>>> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
>>> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
>>> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual emails.
>>> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>>> MARKETPLACE
>>> ------------------------------
>>> From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13r2o68es/M=493064.12016295.13271503.10835568/D=grplch/S=1705897753:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1235099891/L=/B=s1HSNEPDhC8-/J=1235092691677841/A=5530388/R=0/SIG=11nuutlas/*http://explore.yahoo.com/groups/kraftmealsmadesimple/>
>>> [image: Yahoo! Groups]<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJiZ283azF2BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzcwNjA1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTg5Nzc1MwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTIzNTA5MjY5MQ-->
>>>
>>> Change settings via the Web</tuning/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJkaGQ2cTA4BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzcwNjA1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTg5Nzc1MwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNzdG5ncwRzdGltZQMxMjM1MDkyNjkx>
>>> (Yahoo! ID required)
>>> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest<tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email+Delivery:+Digest>
>>> | Switch format to Traditional<tuning-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change+Delivery+Format:+Traditional>
>>>
>>> Visit Your Group </tuning;_ylc=X3oDMTJiNzR1cmU2BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzcwNjA1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTg5Nzc1MwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNocGYEc3RpbWUDMTIzNTA5MjY5MQ-->
>>> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>|
>>> Unsubscribe <tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=>
>>> RECENT ACTIVITY
>>>
>>> - 2
>>> New Members</tuning/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYW12djhmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzcwNjA1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTg5Nzc1MwRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjM1MDkyNjkx>
>>> - 10
>>> New Files</tuning/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMHM3b2s5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzcwNjA1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTg5Nzc1MwRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTIzNTA5MjY5MQ-->
>>>
>>> Visit Your Group</tuning;_ylc=X3oDMTJjOWp1cmswBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzcwNjA1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTg5Nzc1MwRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEyMzUwOTI2OTE->
>>> New web site?
>>>
>>> Drive traffic now.<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13obleh8g/M=493064.12016308.12445700.8674578/D=grplch/S=1705897753:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1235099891/L=/B=tFHSNEPDhC8-/J=1235092691677841/A=3848642/R=0/SIG=131eshi2t/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php?o=US2004&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Groups3&s=Y&s2=&s3=&b=50>
>>>
>>> Get your business
>>>
>>> on Yahoo! search.
>>> Sitebuilder
>>>
>>> Build a web site<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13odd0hq3/M=493064.12016255.12445662.8674578/D=grplch/S=1705897753:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1235099891/L=/B=tVHSNEPDhC8-/J=1235092691677841/A=4025304/R=0/SIG=12uhb64pb/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting/sitebuilding.php>
>>>
>>> quickly & easily
>>>
>>> with Sitebuilder.
>>> John McEnroe
>>>
>>> on Yahoo! Groups<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o7ebd3b/M=493064.12016283.12445687.8674578/D=grplch/S=1705897753:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1235099891/L=/B=tlHSNEPDhC8-/J=1235092691677841/A=5202321/R=0/SIG=11aijbghb/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/allbrangroup>
>>>
>>> Join him for the
>>>
>>> 10 Day Challenge.
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Charles Lucy
>> lucy@...
>>
>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>
>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>
>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Charles Lucy
> lucy@...
>
> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>
> for information on LucyTuning go to:
> http://www.lucytune.com
>
> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>

🔗Charles Lucy <lucy@...>

If you understand harmony and the common practice use of sharps, flats, keys, scales etc. in Western musical traditions, it should be very easy.

Each of the fifty-odd tunings tells you which note is being sounded, look at the file names.

This page shows a colourful diagram of each of the first 50 odd tuning tables and is another way of looking at the same thing.

Don't allow yourself to get too "earnest" about it; have fun!

http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/yamaha_02.html

On 20 Feb 2009, at 02:28, Chris Vaisvil wrote:

> ok.. but then I don't know what tuning file to use for what sets of > keys.
>
> Honestly it seems a bit over complicated to use at its optimum.
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Charles Lucy <lucy@...> > wrote:
> Good luck Chris;
>
>
> Just do your own thing, your own way, and have fun with it!
>
> You don't need to make it complicated unless you wish to get > involved in the subtle fine points of harmonic theory.
>
> I have been playing with this stuff for half a lifetime, so I am > pretty conversant with how sharps/flats/scales etc. work, yet > ultimately it comes down to how does it sound and feel;-)
>
>
>
> On 20 Feb 2009, at 02:19, Chris Vaisvil wrote:
>
>> Charles, are you saying then that the "home" key is indicated by a >> key signature embedded in the tuning file name?
>>
>
>>
>>
>> Then I am confused when the scale name has flats and sharps. That >> sort of combination does not occur in common practice that I know of.
>>
>> My intent is to improvise so I'm trying to define my space for the >> improvisation, similar as to say, restricting myself to E lydian.
>>
>> I know some people can compose in their head and plan things out in >> impressive fashion. Unfortunately for me I am not one of them.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 9:07 PM, Charles Lucy <lucy@...> >> wrote:
>> Well usually a key having 5 sharps would be G-D-A-E-B 5 steps along >> the spiral of fifths from C.
>>
>>
>> therefore B Natural Major or G# minor .
>>
>> Although this may not be the only practical way to think about it, >> as you really need to consider what notes you wish to use in your >> composition carefully especially if you are experimenting with >> "unusual" scales.
>>
>> The most obviously consonant result may not be the most appropriate >> for your musical purposes.
>>
>> Using Logic or similar DAW's, it is often instructive to experiment >> with various transpositions and different tuning codes, which you >> can easily switch to explore options by how they sound.
>>
>> Having found the LucyTuning which sounds best for your purpose >> often reveals that the notenames that you initially imaged you >> wanted to use can be "improved", and an underlying alternative >> harmonic structure can become apparent.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 20 Feb 2009, at 01:30, Chris Vaisvil wrote:
>>
>>> I am sorry...I must not have been clear.
>>>
>>> I did get all material from your site.
>>>
>>> What I want to know is how far up (or down) the spirals I can go >>> in common practice.
>>>
>>> And when I pick a tuning such as zero flats and 5 sharps - what is >>> the key from which that spiral starts from?
>>>
>>> I know in a way I can figure it out... but its faster to ask.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>> On T
>>> ning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
>>> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
>>> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
>>> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
>>> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual >>> emails.
>>> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>>> MARKETPLACE
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>>
>>
>> Charles Lucy
>> lucy@...
>>
>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>
>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>
>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Charles Lucy
> lucy@...
>
> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>
> for information on LucyTuning go to:
> http://www.lucytune.com
>
> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>
>
Charles Lucy
lucy@...

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

Hmmmm but I do understand keys and western harmony fairly well I'd think.

and it isn't easy judging by the name

or your website. I am sorry. Perhaps it is clear to a microtonalist.

I would think:

if you want to play in the keys of C, G, D, A use scale XYZ for
best/acceptable results.

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Charles Lucy <lucy@...> wrote:

> If you understand harmony and the common practice use of sharps, flats,
> keys, scales etc. in Western musical traditions, it should be very easy.
>
> Each of the fifty-odd tunings tells you which note is being sounded, look
> at the file names.
>
> This page shows a colourful diagram of each of the first 50 odd tuning
> tables and is another way of looking at the same thing.
>
> Don't allow yourself to get too "earnest" about it; have fun!
>
>
> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/yamaha_02.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 20 Feb 2009, at 02:28, Chris Vaisvil wrote:
>
> ok.. but then I don't know what tuning file to use for what sets of keys.
>
> Honestly it seems a bit over complicated to use at its optimum.
>
> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Charles Lucy <lucy@...> wrote:
>
>> Good luck Chris;
>>
>> Just do your own thing, your own way, and have fun with it!
>>
>> You don't need to make it complicated unless you wish to get involved in
>> the subtle fine points of harmonic theory.
>>
>> I have been playing with this stuff for half a lifetime, so I am pretty
>> conversant with how sharps/flats/scales etc. work, yet ultimately it comes
>> down to how does it sound and feel;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> On 20 Feb 2009, at 02:19, Chris Vaisvil wrote:
>>
>> Charles, are you saying then that the "home" key is indicated by a key
>> signature embedded in the tuning file name?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Then I am confused when the scale name has flats and sharps. That sort of
>> combination does not occur in common practice that I know of.
>>
>> My intent is to improvise so I'm trying to define my space for the
>> improvisation, similar as to say, restricting myself to E lydian.
>>
>> I know some people can compose in their head and plan things out in
>> impressive fashion. Unfortunately for me I am not one of them.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 9:07 PM, Charles Lucy <lucy@...> wrote:
>>
>>> Well usually a key having 5 sharps would be G-D-A-E-B 5 steps along the
>>> spiral of fifths from C.
>>>
>>> therefore B Natural Major or G# minor .
>>>
>>> Although this may not be the only practical way to think about it, as you
>>> really need to consider what notes you wish to use in your composition
>>> carefully especially if you are experimenting with "unusual" scales.
>>>
>>> The most obviously consonant result may not be the most appropriate for
>>> your musical purposes.
>>>
>>> Using Logic or similar DAW's, it is often instructive to experiment with
>>> various transpositions and different tuning codes, which you can easily
>>> switch to explore options by how they sound.
>>>
>>> Having found the LucyTuning which sounds best for your purpose often
>>> reveals that the notenames that you initially imaged you wanted to use can
>>> be "improved", and an underlying alternative harmonic structure can become
>>> apparent.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 20 Feb 2009, at 01:30, Chris Vaisvil wrote:
>>>
>>> I am sorry...I must not have been clear.
>>>
>>> I did get all material from your site.
>>>
>>> What I want to know is how far up (or down) the spirals I can go in
>>> common practice.
>>>
>>> And when I pick a tuning such as zero flats and 5 sharps - what is the
>>> key from which that spiral starts from?
>>>
>>> I know in a way I can figure it out... but its faster to ask.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> On T
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Charles Lucy
>>> lucy@...
>>>
>>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>>
>>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>>
>>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Charles Lucy
>> lucy@...
>>
>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>
>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>
>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Charles Lucy
> lucy@...
>
> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>
> for information on LucyTuning go to:
> http://www.lucytune.com
>
> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>