Re: [tuning] Recent quotes from Carl. (within the past 24 hours) Encouragement for explorers.

      General comment...Lucy Tuning (so far as I've heard) mostly has the same kind of chords as the chromatic scale, but successfully purifies many of the sour intervals.
     His scale system seems to orient itself to "purifying existing Western styles of music", rather than creating new chords.

   If you want exotic (and chords that often defy the heck out of JI), virtually all of my scale systems use completely different chord sets than Just Intonation (rotated and/or reversed rather than straight harmonic series, irrational generators, etc.)  And you'd better believe, that defiant attitude alone pisses a lot of people off...even if some have found roots of what I do in, say, Ptolemy's scales.

    It seems, whether you go Charles' apparent route (purify the current system with a non-adaptive JI scale) or mine (make a different scale style altogether)...a lot of people will get pissed at you for it.

   There's really no way to "win"...
  My best advice is, if you make your own scales do it for
A) pleasure to your own hearing
B) pleasure to others' hearing (IE having at least a handful of people say your scales sound great)
.....don't do it to "match everyone's math 100% perfectly", boost your ego, or anything else.  I, for one, gladly dump my scales and don't care too much who takes credit for them so long as they get out there and the good Lord knows I've created something useful for others.  And I would strongly suggest others at least trying taking a similar attitude instead of making it so "dog eat dog".

-Michael

--- On Thu, 2/12/09, Marcel de Velde <m.develde@...> wrote:

From: Marcel de Velde <m.develde@...>
Subject: Re: [tuning] Recent quotes from Carl. (within the past 24 hours) Encouragement for explorers.
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, February 12, 2009, 7:01 AM

Hi Charles,
I think this is taking it a bit too far.To dedicate a thread to a fight.

I find myself involved enough yet unpartial enough to comment on this.Carl hasn't been very nice to me today either (so i'm not on his side, not on anybodies side) but he's entitled to in my view.
I don't like what you're doing with lucytuning, I don't like what carl is doing with all his high harmonics.I like what I'm doing.
Same goes for many other people.But I think this list is a better list if everybody can speak their mind on what they think of another persons tuning system, bad and good.
Negative comments about ones tuning system or logic are constructive aswell.And in the case of carl he seems to me also to have good analytics and knowledge.But please keep it about tuning related things.
Isn't there a meta tuning list or something for things this far offtopic?
Marcel

Putting these together seems to illustrate Carl's pattern of thinking.

For those who are experimenting with irrationals and other ways to construct tunings and scales, you might be best to ignore his criticisms.

If what you are proposing really is novel, and unconventional, Mr. Lumma seems to fail to understand it.

(Possibly a case of NIH (not invented here) ;-)

If you then attempt to elaborate or speculate upon what may be happening, your examples and explanations are likely to be labelled as "highly dubious" and "nonsensical" if they fail to conform to Carl's limited view of the world.

So if you find a tuning/scale system which does actually work well, please let us know about it. 

Despite Carl's disparaging remarks, I can assure you that there are other tunaniks who will test your ideas critically.

Some tunaniks will actually understand the significance of your arithmetic and be able to apply their knowledge, experience, and most importantly, their ears;-)

For although I arrogantly believe that I have found a tuning and scale system which solves the harmony, modulation, transposition, beating and scales analysis difficulties for the foreseeable future; 

it is entirely possible that someone will come up with something better.

If so, I and many other want to know about it.