microtonal sample pianos

Hi,

I'm looking into buying a piano sample library that supports
microtuning.

So far I've found Synthogy Ivory and Garritan Steinway.
Also older libraries that load into Kontakt will work I assume, and
the modeled Pianoteq piano (but I don't like how it sounds)

Am I missing any pianos that can compete with the Synthogy or Garritan
pianos?
Does anybody here have any experience with these pianos, are there any
pitfalls?

Many thanks!
Marcel

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "mdevelde" <m.develde@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking into buying a piano sample library that supports
> microtuning.

Hi Marcel,

I know you asked about a sample library, but have you considered
the physically-modeled Pianoteq synth?

http://www.pianoteq.com

It sounds very good, takes a lot less computer horsepower
and storage space than a sampler, and supports microtonality
right out of the box.

-Carl

Dear Marcel,

I don't quite understand your question: with a sampler supporting microtonal tuning, you can use any library yo want. For example, with Kontakt you can have scripts for microtonal detuning. These work with the libraries shipped with the sampler as well as libraries purchased extra.

Best
Torsten

--
Torsten Anders
Interdisciplinary Centre for Computer Music Research
University of Plymouth
Office: +44-1752-586219
Private: +44-1752-558917
http://strasheela.sourceforge.net
http://www.torsten-anders.de

On Dec 5, 2008, at 11:17 AM, mdevelde wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm looking into buying a piano sample library that supports
> microtuning.
>
> So far I've found Synthogy Ivory and Garritan Steinway.
> Also older libraries that load into Kontakt will work I assume, and
> the modeled Pianoteq piano (but I don't like how it sounds)
>
> Am I missing any pianos that can compete with the Synthogy or Garritan
> pianos?
> Does anybody here have any experience with these pianos, are there any
> pitfalls?
>
> Many thanks!
> Marcel
>
>
>

Agreed.

You can also make your own samples, and nowadays the various sample formats are interchangeable, so that e.g. EXS can read and/or remap any samples,

Using KeyMap enables users to make samples set at 12edo pitches which can then be microtuned using whatever sample player and microtuning system you might choose to suit your purposes.

It seems to me that provided you do not require more than 12 notes per octave to the nearest 0.1 cent resolution at any one time, the difficulties that we used to experience attempting to microtune our music have been resolved.

On 7 Dec 2008, at 16:19, Torsten Anders wrote:

> Dear Marcel,
>
> I don't quite understand your question: with a sampler supporting
> microtonal tuning, you can use any library yo want. For example, with
> Kontakt you can have scripts for microtonal detuning. These work with
> the libraries shipped with the sampler as well as libraries purchased
> extra.
>
> Best
> Torsten
>
> --
> Torsten Anders
> Interdisciplinary Centre for Computer Music Research
> University of Plymouth
> Office: +44-1752-586219
> Private: +44-1752-558917
> http://strasheela.sourceforge.net
> http://www.torsten-anders.de
>
> On Dec 5, 2008, at 11:17 AM, mdevelde wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm looking into buying a piano sample library that supports
> > microtuning.
> >
> > So far I've found Synthogy Ivory and Garritan Steinway.
> > Also older libraries that load into Kontakt will work I assume, and
> > the modeled Pianoteq piano (but I don't like how it sounds)
> >
> > Am I missing any pianos that can compete with the Synthogy or > Garritan
> > pianos?
> > Does anybody here have any experience with these pianos, are there > any
> > pitfalls?
> >
> > Many thanks!
> > Marcel
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Charles Lucy
lucy@...

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

[ Attachment content not displayed ]

Hi Marcel,

Of the large sampled pianos, I tend to favor Ivory. But one
could argue that it makes more sense to invest in Kontakt --
then you have a flexible sampler platform, and one with extensive
microtonal support (does Ivory have microtonal support?).
See for instance:
http://12equalboresme.com/Scala2Kontakt/

It's true that for absolute realism, a gigabyte sampler will
beat pianoteq. But pianoteq is more flexible. You don't have
to buy a whole new sample library to try a different instrument.
Pianoteq also has the potential to react more naturally and
with more degrees of freedom to controller input. However,
there really aren't any MIDI controllers available today that
can produce output with enough dynamic range to expose this
difference, unless you're outputing from a Mark 4 Disklavier
or Bose CEUS or something.

-Carl

> Hi Carl,
> Thanks for your suggestion.
>
> I've tried pianoteq and really like the concept and it's indeed
> very playable and light on resources but I don't find the sound
> is on the same level as ivory or the garritan steinway (getting
> close though). I'm probably going to go for the Ivory Italian
> Grand, I really like it's sound. But I was just wondering wether
> I missed any good pianos that support microtuning.
>
> Cheers
> Marcel

Dear Marcel,

On Dec 7, 2008, at 10:52 PM, Carl Lumma wrote:
> Hi Marcel,
>
> Of the large sampled pianos, I tend to favor Ivory. But one
> could argue that it makes more sense to invest in Kontakt --
> then you have a flexible sampler platform, and one with extensive
> microtonal support (does Ivory have microtonal support?).
> See for instance:
> http://12equalboresme.com/Scala2Kontakt/
>
The doc says that this is for Kontakt version 2, so it may not work for the more recent version.

However, what I find most interesting about Kontakt is that it allows for script-controlled dynamic retuning (e.g., depending on continuous controller input, or analysing the notes you play).

Best
Torsten
>
>
> It's true that for absolute realism, a gigabyte sampler will
> beat pianoteq. But pianoteq is more flexible. You don't have
> to buy a whole new sample library to try a different instrument.
> Pianoteq also has the potential to react more naturally and
> with more degrees of freedom to controller input. However,
> there really aren't any MIDI controllers available today that
> can produce output with enough dynamic range to expose this
> difference, unless you're outputing from a Mark 4 Disklavier
> or Bose CEUS or something.
>
> -Carl
>
> > Hi Carl,
> > Thanks for your suggestion.
> >
> > I've tried pianoteq and really like the concept and it's indeed
> > very playable and light on resources but I don't find the sound
> > is on the same level as ivory or the garritan steinway (getting
> > close though). I'm probably going to go for the Ivory Italian
> > Grand, I really like it's sound. But I was just wondering wether
> > I missed any good pianos that support microtuning.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Marcel
>
>
>

[ Attachment content not displayed ]

[ Attachment content not displayed ]

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Marcel de Velde" <m.develde@...> wrote:
>
> After lisening more to all piano libraries compared to real pianos
> I feel like there is no sample piano as beautifull as a real
> piano.

There never will be, of course. First of all, if you are comparing
a live piano to a sampled one, you are comparing a soundboard to a
loudspeaker. But even if you compare a recording of a real
instrument to a sampled instrument, there are string interactions
which must be synthesized -- there are too many combinations to
sample. Ivory does a decent job of this but if we are synthesizing
such things, why not just use a physical model to begin with?

> So I've deceded to use Pianoteq till a really good one comes along
> (maybe this will even be an updated version of Pianoteq :)

Indeed. A more detailed model (which would have been impossible
on the computer hardware contemporary with pianoteq 1.0) might
approach reality very very closely.

> Worked out the microtuning issues I had (mainly with keyboard
> mapping) with the help of forum support and this is working
> perfectly now. Also am getting a more realistic piano tone from
> pianoteq then before thanks to trying out more models and
> fiddling a bit myself.

Another satisfied customer!! :)
(I should call them about an endorsement contract. :)

-Carl

[ Attachment content not displayed ]