Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Fwd: Connections between Chess and Music.

Hi, Dan and other who listened,

thanks for positive feedback. Few words about the work and tuning:

Composed in 1982 on the base of quasi folklore motifs written 1977-82. Music was freely based on the rather superficial listening analysis of Carpathian music material, with some far inspiration from Turkey, Near East and Arabia. Mainly Romania, Hungary and Moravia. Folklore is emulated mainly in modality and melodic structures, less in harmony, metrorhythmics and instrumentation. Melodies are in diatonic modes, there's also polymodality, and approximate detuning of some notes of 12 ET, maximally +/- quartertone. Work has some elements of aleatorics, collage and theatrical happening (last one can be omitted).
First movement in rhapsodic character was inspired by Romanian music - mysterious non vibrato static detuned chords are shorter and shorter, solo voice can be nay, kawala, violin or synthesizer.
Second movement was inspired by Moravian music. Dance rhythm with fastening tempo ends in aleatoric soundscape, instruments disappear one by one and performers should enter theatrical action. Which is third movement - only a game with Rubik cube, with lively discussion, showing the results, asking how to continue with moves, quarreling, etc. Conductor is taken into it as well, but after two or three minutes he realizes what happened and forces the orchestra to continue with music.
Fourth movement goes more far in direction to Near Eastern music. This movement changes gradually into the last one, fast dancing character based mainly on Lydian mode, where it's possible to trace inspiration from Moravian, neo-Hungarian and generally Balcan music. It was not my intention to focus here on Romani (Gipsy) character, but it's true ethnic Carpathian Gipsies could play such music. Work ends again in aleatoric soundscape with fade out.
This record is from live performance at school concert, it was done still during my study at Music Academy. So conductor and performers are students, colleagues, and I was not totally satisfied with performing, result is not quite perfect. But for sure they liked it and did their best, despite the fact that they had big problems with those intentionally false notes!

When I got later an opportunity of radio recording by professional radio orchestra specialized in folklore music, and broadcasting of this work in 1991, I did some small changes in the score, and added contrabass, cimbalom and synthesizer. That record was much better, unfortunately I haven't it...

OK, enough about the old stuff.

Daniel Forro

On 20 Nov 2008, at 12:03 AM, daniel_anthony_stearns wrote:

> yeah, i agree!
> thanks for this daniel
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <carl@...> wrote:
> >
> > > And another one, a homage to this man of a genius, Music for Erno
> > > Rubik (1982), is here:
> > >
> > > http://soundclick.com/share?songid=4520912
> >
> > Excellent piece!!
> >
> > -Carl
> >
>

🔗caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...>

🔗Charles Lucy <lucy@...>

The best way to make your samples is to use KeyMap by Redmatica.

http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Welcome_to_Redmatica.html

which will sort them out for you automatically including tuning to the nearest 12edo pitches.

It also enables you to do some very fancy looping, editing and other tweaking.

The other alternative is to use the edit functions in EXS24, which is tedious, yet still possible.

You can microtune to the nearest 1/10th of a cent using the microtuning capability for one set of twelve notes per octave.

For more notes per octave, bounce one set of pitches to an audio file, bounce the other (different/remaining) pitches, and mix the two audio tracks to cover all your chosen pitches.

More info. on Logic and microtuning EXS and samples for it can be found here:

http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html

Microtuning with Logic has all become very easy nowadays since the introduction of Logic 7 and Pro 8.

On 19 Nov 2008, at 16:45, caleb morgan wrote:

>
> caleb writes: I'm struggling to figure out how to use Logic Pro. I > want to use my own samples.
>
> Is there a way to import a sample, trigger it from a midi keyboard, > and map it to selected keys, and tune them?
>
> Do I need a separate sampler plug-in?
>
> Logic Pro seems designed with people different than me in mind....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> Messages in this topic (5)Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic
>> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | >> Calendar
>> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
>> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
>> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
>> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
>> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
>> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
>> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual >> emails.
>> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>> MARKETPLACE
>> From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods
>>
>> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
>> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch >> format to Traditional
>> Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
>> RECENT ACTIVITY
>> 2
>> New Members
>> 3
>> New Files
>> Visit Your Group
>> Share Photos
>> Put your favorite
>> photos and
>> more online.
>> Yahoo! Groups
>> Latest product news
>> Join Mod. Central
>> stay connected.
>> Yahoo! Groups
>> Special K Challenge
>> Join others who
>> are losing pounds.
>> .
>>
>
>
>
Charles Lucy
lucy@...

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

🔗caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...>

thanks for good answer, much food for thought.

--gaak! I've got to buy more stuff!

--the other info sounds good

--So far, I've seen some features of Logic that I can't use--12-note microtuning and some kind of automated re-tuning that attempts to find the most consonant tuning for what you've written--both strike me as almost useless, but I have to look again.

--in general, higher-level features that lock you into some system make life more difficult, not easier. I'd love to have a plain vanilla sequencer that lets me work in Hertz, or cents.

--I'm just suffering from feature overload with Logic Pro--I can't get any sounds that I like with it, and it seems to have a zillion features that I don't want.

--What are the features/ways of working that Logic 7/Pro 8 have introduced that make microtones easy?

--thanks again

On Nov 19, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:

> The best way to make your samples is to use KeyMap by Redmatica.
>
>
> http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Welcome_to_Redmatica.html
>
> which will sort them out for you automatically including tuning to > the nearest 12edo pitches.
>
> It also enables you to do some very fancy looping, editing and other > tweaking.
>
> The other alternative is to use the edit functions in EXS24, which > is tedious, yet still possible.
>
> You can microtune to the nearest 1/10th of a cent using the > microtuning capability for one set of twelve notes per octave.
>
> For more notes per octave, bounce one set of pitches to an audio > file, bounce the other (different/remaining) pitches, and mix the > two audio tracks to cover all your chosen pitches.
>
>
> More info. on Logic and microtuning EXS and samples for it can be > found here:
>
> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
>
> Microtuning with Logic has all become very easy nowadays since the > introduction of Logic 7 and Pro 8.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 19 Nov 2008, at 16:45, caleb morgan wrote:
>
>>
>> caleb writes: I'm struggling to figure out how to use Logic Pro. >> I want to use my own samples.
>>
>> Is there a way to import a sample, trigger it from a midi keyboard, >> and map it to selected keys, and tune them?
>>
>> Do I need a separate sampler plug-in?
>>
>> Logic Pro seems designed with people different than me in mind....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Messages in this topic (5)Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic
>>> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | >>> Calendar
>>> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
>>> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
>>> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
>>> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
>>> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
>>> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
>>> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual >>> emails.
>>> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>>> MARKETPLACE
>>> From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft >>> Foods
>>>
>>> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
>>> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | >>> Switch format to Traditional
>>> Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
>>> RECENT ACTIVITY
>>> 2
>>> New Members
>>> 3
>>> New Files
>>> Visit Your Group
>>> Share Photos
>>> Put your favorite
>>> photos and
>>> more online.
>>> Yahoo! Groups
>>> Latest product news
>>> Join Mod. Central
>>> stay connected.
>>> Yahoo! Groups
>>> Special K Challenge
>>> Join others who
>>> are losing pounds.
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>
> Charles Lucy
> lucy@...
>
> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>
> for information on LucyTuning go to:
> http://www.lucytune.com
>
> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>

🔗chrisvaisvil@...

🔗Charles Lucy <lucy@...>

Just download the LucyTuning Logic files, decompress them and read the readme.txt

http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html

It will explain how to microtune your tracks.

Once you understand how they work, you can modify them or make your own tuning files in .scl format which Logic can read and use.

You have to think about the microtuning as + or - cent values from 12edo for each of the 12 notes, if you are editing them from within Logic.

As far as finding the most "consonant" tuning; think like a musician rather than a mathematical robot which looks for proximity to integer ratios;-)

Get Logic up and running then use your mouse and go:

File/Project Settings/Tuning; you will see the window which tells you the +/- offsets from 12edo for each of the 12 edo notes.

You can change the values and then save the "new" tuning files for later use.

Read Chapter 40 of the Logic Manual page 944 onwards for the details, or search tuning in the Logic Help.

There are lotsa videos on youtube to assist you - search on Logic too find them.

On 19 Nov 2008, at 18:09, caleb morgan wrote:

>
> thanks for good answer, much food for thought.
>
> --gaak! I've got to buy more stuff!
>
> --the other info sounds good
>
> --So far, I've seen some features of Logic that I can't use--12-note > microtuning and some kind of automated re-tuning that attempts to > find the most consonant tuning for what you've written--both strike > me as almost useless, but I have to look again.

>
> --in general, higher-level features that lock you into some system > make life more difficult, not easier. I'd love to have a plain > vanilla sequencer that lets me work in Hertz, or cents.
>
> --I'm just suffering from feature overload with Logic Pro--I can't > get any sounds that I like with it, and it seems to have a zillion > features that I don't want.
>
> --What are the features/ways of working that Logic 7/Pro 8 have > introduced that make microtones easy?
>
> --thanks again
>
>
>
> On Nov 19, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>
>> The best way to make your samples is to use KeyMap by Redmatica.
>>
>>
>> http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Welcome_to_Redmatica.html
>>
>> which will sort them out for you automatically including tuning to >> the nearest 12edo pitches.
>>
>> It also enables you to do some very fancy looping, editing and >> other tweaking.
>>
>> The other alternative is to use the edit functions in EXS24, which >> is tedious, yet still possible.
>>
>> You can microtune to the nearest 1/10th of a cent using the >> microtuning capability for one set of twelve notes per octave.
>>
>> For more notes per octave, bounce one set of pitches to an audio >> file, bounce the other (different/remaining) pitches, and mix the >> two audio tracks to cover all your chosen pitches.
>>
>>
>> More info. on Logic and microtuning EXS and samples for it can be >> found here:
>>
>> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
>>
>> Microtuning with Logic has all become very easy nowadays since the >> introduction of Logic 7 and Pro 8.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 16:45, caleb morgan wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> caleb writes: I'm struggling to figure out how to use Logic Pro. >>> I want to use my own samples.
>>>
>>> Is there a way to import a sample, trigger it from a midi >>> keyboard, and map it to selected keys, and tune them?
>>>
>>> Do I need a separate sampler plug-in?
>>>
>>> Logic Pro seems designed with people different than me in mind....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Messages in this topic (5)Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic
>>>> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | >>>> Calendar
>>>> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to >>>> one
>>>> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the >>>> list):
>>>> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
>>>> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
>>>> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
>>>> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
>>>> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual >>>> emails.
>>>> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>>>> MARKETPLACE
>>>> From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft >>>> Foods
>>>>
>>>> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
>>>> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | >>>> Switch format to Traditional
>>>> Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
>>>> RECENT ACTIVITY
>>>> 2
>>>> New Members
>>>> 3
>>>> New Files
>>>> Visit Your Group
>>>> Share Photos
>>>> Put your favorite
>>>> photos and
>>>> more online.
>>>> Yahoo! Groups
>>>> Latest product news
>>>> Join Mod. Central
>>>> stay connected.
>>>> Yahoo! Groups
>>>> Special K Challenge
>>>> Join others who
>>>> are losing pounds.
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Charles Lucy
>> lucy@...
>>
>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>
>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>
>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Charles Lucy
lucy@...

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

🔗caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...>

caleb wrote:
thanks for the info, Charles. I may well work with tuning files.

In general, I need a continuously variable tuning. I don't want to be locked into anyone's tuning scheme. I need 36+ notes per 2/1 available at all times.

I'm willing to insert pitch-bend commands with each note, by hand. Compared to composing, this is not too arduous.

That way, I can at least start to make music without all this tech getting in my way.

**My question: The orchestral instruments don't seem to be pitch-bending!

(This, if true, would be an example of Logic's sophistication making life harder for unconventional users)

(The first time I attempted to edit a pitch-bend, Logic hard-crashed. Not a promising beginning)

Is this because some well-meaning programmer didn't think pitch-bend should work, or that pitch-bend would confuse consumers?

Can I turn this no-pitch-bend feature off?

this, so far, is example # 37 of Logic being hard to use...

On Nov 19, 2008, at 2:00 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:

> Just download the LucyTuning Logic files, decompress them and read > the readme.txt
>
>
> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
>
> It will explain how to microtune your tracks.
>
> Once you understand how they work, you can modify them or make your > own tuning files in .scl format which Logic can read and use.
>
> You have to think about the microtuning as + or - cent values from > 12edo for each of the 12 notes, if you are editing them from within > Logic.
>
> As far as finding the most "consonant" tuning; think like a musician > rather than a mathematical robot which looks for proximity to > integer ratios;-)
>
> Get Logic up and running then use your mouse and go:
>
> File/Project Settings/Tuning; you will see the window which tells > you the +/- offsets from 12edo for each of the 12 edo notes.
>
> You can change the values and then save the "new" tuning files for > later use.
>
> Read Chapter 40 of the Logic Manual page 944 onwards for the > details, or search tuning in the Logic Help.
>
> There are lotsa videos on youtube to assist you - search on Logic > too find them.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 19 Nov 2008, at 18:09, caleb morgan wrote:
>
>>
>> thanks for good answer, much food for thought.
>>
>> --gaak! I've got to buy more stuff!
>>
>> --the other info sounds good
>>
>> --So far, I've seen some features of Logic that I can't use--12->> note microtuning and some kind of automated re-tuning that attempts >> to find the most consonant tuning for what you've written--both >> strike me as almost useless, but I have to look again.
>
>
>>
>
>>
>> --in general, higher-level features that lock you into some system >> make life more difficult, not easier. I'd love to have a plain >> vanilla sequencer that lets me work in Hertz, or cents.
>>
>> --I'm just suffering from feature overload with Logic Pro--I can't >> get any sounds that I like with it, and it seems to have a zillion >> features that I don't want.
>>
>> --What are the features/ways of working that Logic 7/Pro 8 have >> introduced that make microtones easy?
>>
>> --thanks again
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>>
>>> The best way to make your samples is to use KeyMap by Redmatica.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Welcome_to_Redmatica.html
>>>
>>> which will sort them out for you automatically including tuning to >>> the nearest 12edo pitches.
>>>
>>> It also enables you to do some very fancy looping, editing and >>> other tweaking.
>>>
>>> The other alternative is to use the edit functions in EXS24, which >>> is tedious, yet still possible.
>>>
>>> You can microtune to the nearest 1/10th of a cent using the >>> microtuning capability for one set of twelve notes per octave.
>>>
>>> For more notes per octave, bounce one set of pitches to an audio >>> file, bounce the other (different/remaining) pitches, and mix the >>> two audio tracks to cover all your chosen pitches.
>>>
>>>
>>> More info. on Logic and microtuning EXS and samples for it can be >>> found here:
>>>
>>> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
>>>
>>> Microtuning with Logic has all become very easy nowadays since the >>> introduction of Logic 7 and Pro 8.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 16:45, caleb morgan wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> caleb writes: I'm struggling to figure out how to use Logic >>>> Pro. I want to use my own samples.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a way to import a sample, trigger it from a midi >>>> keyboard, and map it to selected keys, and tune them?
>>>>
>>>> Do I need a separate sampler plug-in?
>>>>
>>>> Logic Pro seems designed with people different than me in mind....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Messages in this topic (5)Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic
>>>>> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | >>>>> Calendar
>>>>> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to >>>>> one
>>>>> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the >>>>> list):
>>>>> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
>>>>> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
>>>>> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
>>>>> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
>>>>> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual >>>>> emails.
>>>>> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>>>>> MARKETPLACE
>>>>> From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft >>>>> Foods
>>>>>
>>>>> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
>>>>> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | >>>>> Switch format to Traditional
>>>>> Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
>>>>> RECENT ACTIVITY
>>>>> 2
>>>>> New Members
>>>>> 3
>>>>> New Files
>>>>> Visit Your Group
>>>>> Share Photos
>>>>> Put your favorite
>>>>> photos and
>>>>> more online.
>>>>> Yahoo! Groups
>>>>> Latest product news
>>>>> Join Mod. Central
>>>>> stay connected.
>>>>> Yahoo! Groups
>>>>> Special K Challenge
>>>>> Join others who
>>>>> are losing pounds.
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Charles Lucy
>>> lucy@...
>>>
>>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>>
>>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>>
>>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> Charles Lucy
> lucy@...
>
> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>
> for information on LucyTuning go to:
> http://www.lucytune.com
>
> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>

🔗Charles Lucy <lucy@...>

From my experience Logic should play back pitchbend values from midi files.

There are a number of disadvantages with using pitchbend.

a) resolution only to nearest 64th of a semitone.
b) latency which may be hear as "pitch slides"
c) All notes on any channel will be pitchbent.
d) need to use unique channel of each simultaneous note.

If you use Logic as intended, you can use 36 notes per octave if you do it in three stages.

a) Set up three tuning tables having decided which note is to play which 36 notes.
b) Split your midi data into three regions
c) Convert each into an audio file with the appropriate tuning table.
d) Mix the audios to combine them

Obviously like all systems Logic has its advantages and disadvantages.

I agreed that Logic 8 could be more user-friendly and allow greater microtuning flexibility, so I am giving you the benefit of my experience and advice on the best work-arounds that I have found.

On 19 Nov 2008, at 20:00, caleb morgan wrote:

>
> caleb wrote:
> thanks for the info, Charles. I may well work with tuning files.
>
> In general, I need a continuously variable tuning. I don't want > to be locked into anyone's tuning scheme. I need 36+ notes per 2/1 > available at all times.
>
> I'm willing to insert pitch-bend commands with each note, by hand. > Compared to composing, this is not too arduous.
>
> That way, I can at least start to make music without all this tech > getting in my way.
>
> **My question: The orchestral instruments don't seem to be pitch-> bending!
>
> (This, if true, would be an example of Logic's sophistication making > life harder for unconventional users)
>
> (The first time I attempted to edit a pitch-bend, Logic hard-> crashed. Not a promising beginning)
>
> Is this because some well-meaning programmer didn't think pitch-bend > should work, or that pitch-bend would confuse consumers?
>
> Can I turn this no-pitch-bend feature off?
>
> this, so far, is example # 37 of Logic being hard to use...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 19, 2008, at 2:00 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>
>> Just download the LucyTuning Logic files, decompress them and read >> the readme.txt
>>
>>
>> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
>>
>> It will explain how to microtune your tracks.
>>
>> Once you understand how they work, you can modify them or make your >> own tuning files in .scl format which Logic can read and use.
>>
>> You have to think about the microtuning as + or - cent values from >> 12edo for each of the 12 notes, if you are editing them from within >> Logic.
>>
>> As far as finding the most "consonant" tuning; think like a >> musician rather than a mathematical robot which looks for proximity >> to integer ratios;-)
>>
>> Get Logic up and running then use your mouse and go:
>>
>> File/Project Settings/Tuning; you will see the window which tells >> you the +/- offsets from 12edo for each of the 12 edo notes.
>>
>> You can change the values and then save the "new" tuning files for >> later use.
>>
>> Read Chapter 40 of the Logic Manual page 944 onwards for the >> details, or search tuning in the Logic Help.
>>
>> There are lotsa videos on youtube to assist you - search on Logic >> too find them.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 18:09, caleb morgan wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> thanks for good answer, much food for thought.
>>>
>>> --gaak! I've got to buy more stuff!
>>>
>>> --the other info sounds good
>>>
>>> --So far, I've seen some features of Logic that I can't use--12->>> note microtuning and some kind of automated re-tuning that >>> attempts to find the most consonant tuning for what you've >>> written--both strike me as almost useless, but I have to look again.
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>> --in general, higher-level features that lock you into some system >>> make life more difficult, not easier. I'd love to have a plain >>> vanilla sequencer that lets me work in Hertz, or cents.
>>>
>>> --I'm just suffering from feature overload with Logic Pro--I can't >>> get any sounds that I like with it, and it seems to have a zillion >>> features that I don't want.
>>>
>>> --What are the features/ways of working that Logic 7/Pro 8 have >>> introduced that make microtones easy?
>>>
>>> --thanks again
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>>>
>>>> The best way to make your samples is to use KeyMap by Redmatica.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Welcome_to_Redmatica.html
>>>>
>>>> which will sort them out for you automatically including tuning >>>> to the nearest 12edo pitches.
>>>>
>>>> It also enables you to do some very fancy looping, editing and >>>> other tweaking.
>>>>
>>>> The other alternative is to use the edit functions in EXS24, >>>> which is tedious, yet still possible.
>>>>
>>>> You can microtune to the nearest 1/10th of a cent using the >>>> microtuning capability for one set of twelve notes per octave.
>>>>
>>>> For more notes per octave, bounce one set of pitches to an audio >>>> file, bounce the other (different/remaining) pitches, and mix >>>> the two audio tracks to cover all your chosen pitches.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> More info. on Logic and microtuning EXS and samples for it can be >>>> found here:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
>>>>
>>>> Microtuning with Logic has all become very easy nowadays since >>>> the introduction of Logic 7 and Pro 8.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 16:45, caleb morgan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> caleb writes: I'm struggling to figure out how to use Logic >>>>> Pro. I want to use my own samples.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a way to import a sample, trigger it from a midi >>>>> keyboard, and map it to selected keys, and tune them?
>>>>>
>>>>> Do I need a separate sampler plug-in?
>>>>>
>>>>> Logic Pro seems designed with people different than me in mind....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Messages in this topic (5)Reply (via web post) | Start a new >>>>>> topic
>>>>>> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members >>>>>> | Calendar
>>>>>> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email >>>>>> to one
>>>>>> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the >>>>>> list):
>>>>>> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
>>>>>> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
>>>>>> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
>>>>>> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily >>>>>> digests.
>>>>>> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual >>>>>> emails.
>>>>>> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>>>>>> MARKETPLACE
>>>>>> From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft >>>>>> Foods
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
>>>>>> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | >>>>>> Switch format to Traditional
>>>>>> Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
>>>>>> RECENT ACTIVITY
>>>>>> 2
>>>>>> New Members
>>>>>> 3
>>>>>> New Files
>>>>>> Visit Your Group
>>>>>> Share Photos
>>>>>> Put your favorite
>>>>>> photos and
>>>>>> more online.
>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups
>>>>>> Latest product news
>>>>>> Join Mod. Central
>>>>>> stay connected.
>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups
>>>>>> Special K Challenge
>>>>>> Join others who
>>>>>> are losing pounds.
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Charles Lucy
>>>> lucy@...
>>>>
>>>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>>>
>>>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>>>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>>>
>>>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>>>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Charles Lucy
>> lucy@...
>>
>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>
>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>
>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Charles Lucy
lucy@...

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

🔗caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...>

Thanks, Charles, you *are* trying.

Some background. Logic Pro 8 comes with these preset "bands" if you choose a "Template" under New Project.

The whole idea of Templates is gross, but never mind.

There's a collection of cheesy orchestral instruments.

They are worse than a Proteus II.

But I thought I could make a "beginner's mess" if I could simply pitch-bend them.

Microtonal chords will sound cheesy in a different way

The tuning spec, at least, gives you more resolution, but you are probably right--the accuracy isn't too great.

Still, I can live with 1/64th of a semitone for a piece just to get my feet wet.

If I wait til I can do something I actually like with Logic, I'll probably never do anything at all.

So, it's just a little tech obstacle: Where do I turn pitch-bend on (and set the range) with a given instrument?

You might think this is easy: In fact, it is, if you know how to do it already.

But a good half-hour to an hour with this one little obstacle is enough to be fairly discouraging.

On the bright side, I find the prospect of composing little thingies that people on the tuning list will hear is highly motivating. I haven't had a bunch of people to compose for in a while, and there are lots of great ears here.

caleb

On Nov 19, 2008, at 3:28 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:

> From my experience Logic should play back pitchbend values from midi > files.
>
>
> There are a number of disadvantages with using pitchbend.
>
> a) resolution only to nearest 64th of a semitone.
> b) latency which may be hear as "pitch slides"
> c) All notes on any channel will be pitchbent.
> d) need to use unique channel of each simultaneous note.
>
> If you use Logic as intended, you can use 36 notes per octave if you > do it in three stages.
>
> a) Set up three tuning tables having decided which note is to play > which 36 notes.
> b) Split your midi data into three regions
> c) Convert each into an audio file with the appropriate tuning table.
> d) Mix the audios to combine them
>
> Obviously like all systems Logic has its advantages and disadvantages.
>
> I agreed that Logic 8 could be more user-friendly and allow greater > microtuning flexibility, so I am giving you the benefit of my > experience and advice on the best work-arounds that I have found.
>
>
> On 19 Nov 2008, at 20:00, caleb morgan wrote:
>
>>
>> caleb wrote:
>> thanks for the info, Charles. I may well work with tuning files.
>>
>> In general, I need a continuously variable tuning. I don't want >> to be locked into anyone's tuning scheme. I need 36+ notes per 2/1 >> available at all times.
>>
>> I'm willing to insert pitch-bend commands with each note, by >> hand. Compared to composing, this is not too arduous.
>>
>> That way, I can at least start to make music without all this tech >> getting in my way.
>>
>> **My question: The orchestral instruments don't seem to be pitch->> bending!
>>
>> (This, if true, would be an example of Logic's sophistication >> making life harder for unconventional users)
>>
>> (The first time I attempted to edit a pitch-bend, Logic hard->> crashed. Not a promising beginning)
>>
>> Is this because some well-meaning programmer didn't think pitch->> bend should work, or that pitch-bend would confuse consumers?
>>
>> Can I turn this no-pitch-bend feature off?
>>
>> this, so far, is example # 37 of Logic being hard to use...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 2:00 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>>
>>> Just download the LucyTuning Logic files, decompress them and read >>> the readme.txt
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
>>>
>>> It will explain how to microtune your tracks.
>>>
>>> Once you understand how they work, you can modify them or make >>> your own tuning files in .scl format which Logic can read and use.
>>>
>>> You have to think about the microtuning as + or - cent values from >>> 12edo for each of the 12 notes, if you are editing them from >>> within Logic.
>>>
>>> As far as finding the most "consonant" tuning; think like a >>> musician rather than a mathematical robot which looks for >>> proximity to integer ratios;-)
>>>
>>> Get Logic up and running then use your mouse and go:
>>>
>>> File/Project Settings/Tuning; you will see the window which tells >>> you the +/- offsets from 12edo for each of the 12 edo notes.
>>>
>>> You can change the values and then save the "new" tuning files for >>> later use.
>>>
>>> Read Chapter 40 of the Logic Manual page 944 onwards for the >>> details, or search tuning in the Logic Help.
>>>
>>> There are lotsa videos on youtube to assist you - search on Logic >>> too find them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 18:09, caleb morgan wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> thanks for good answer, much food for thought.
>>>>
>>>> --gaak! I've got to buy more stuff!
>>>>
>>>> --the other info sounds good
>>>>
>>>> --So far, I've seen some features of Logic that I can't use--12->>>> note microtuning and some kind of automated re-tuning that >>>> attempts to find the most consonant tuning for what you've >>>> written--both strike me as almost useless, but I have to look >>>> again.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> --in general, higher-level features that lock you into some >>>> system make life more difficult, not easier. I'd love to have a >>>> plain vanilla sequencer that lets me work in Hertz, or cents.
>>>>
>>>> --I'm just suffering from feature overload with Logic Pro--I >>>> can't get any sounds that I like with it, and it seems to have a >>>> zillion features that I don't want.
>>>>
>>>> --What are the features/ways of working that Logic 7/Pro 8 have >>>> introduced that make microtones easy?
>>>>
>>>> --thanks again
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The best way to make your samples is to use KeyMap by Redmatica.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Welcome_to_Redmatica.html
>>>>>
>>>>> which will sort them out for you automatically including tuning >>>>> to the nearest 12edo pitches.
>>>>>
>>>>> It also enables you to do some very fancy looping, editing and >>>>> other tweaking.
>>>>>
>>>>> The other alternative is to use the edit functions in EXS24, >>>>> which is tedious, yet still possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can microtune to the nearest 1/10th of a cent using the >>>>> microtuning capability for one set of twelve notes per octave.
>>>>>
>>>>> For more notes per octave, bounce one set of pitches to an audio >>>>> file, bounce the other (different/remaining) pitches, and mix >>>>> the two audio tracks to cover all your chosen pitches.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> More info. on Logic and microtuning EXS and samples for it can >>>>> be found here:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Microtuning with Logic has all become very easy nowadays since >>>>> the introduction of Logic 7 and Pro 8.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 16:45, caleb morgan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> caleb writes: I'm struggling to figure out how to use Logic >>>>>> Pro. I want to use my own samples.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there a way to import a sample, trigger it from a midi >>>>>> keyboard, and map it to selected keys, and tune them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do I need a separate sampler plug-in?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Logic Pro seems designed with people different than me in >>>>>> mind....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Messages in this topic (5)Reply (via web post) | Start a new >>>>>>> topic
>>>>>>> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members >>>>>>> | Calendar
>>>>>>> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email >>>>>>> to one
>>>>>>> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the >>>>>>> list):
>>>>>>> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
>>>>>>> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
>>>>>>> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
>>>>>>> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily >>>>>>> digests.
>>>>>>> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual >>>>>>> emails.
>>>>>>> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help >>>>>>> information.
>>>>>>> MARKETPLACE
>>>>>>> From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from >>>>>>> Kraft Foods
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
>>>>>>> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | >>>>>>> Switch format to Traditional
>>>>>>> Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
>>>>>>> RECENT ACTIVITY
>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>> New Members
>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>> New Files
>>>>>>> Visit Your Group
>>>>>>> Share Photos
>>>>>>> Put your favorite
>>>>>>> photos and
>>>>>>> more online.
>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups
>>>>>>> Latest product news
>>>>>>> Join Mod. Central
>>>>>>> stay connected.
>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups
>>>>>>> Special K Challenge
>>>>>>> Join others who
>>>>>>> are losing pounds.
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Charles Lucy
>>>>> lucy@...
>>>>>
>>>>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>>>>
>>>>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>>>>
>>>>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>>>>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Charles Lucy
>>> lucy@...
>>>
>>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>>
>>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>>
>>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> Charles Lucy
> lucy@...
>
> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>
> for information on LucyTuning go to:
> http://www.lucytune.com
>
> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...>

Hey Caleb, I discovered how to turn pitch-bend on the hard way in Logic Pro 8. You need to double-click the EXS instrument in the instrument strip on the left-hand-side (Inspector pane), and make sure that the pitch under the random dial is set to 1 or higher. 2 is the range of the ET wholetone, 12 is the range of the octave.

Oz.

On Nov 19, 2008, at 11:40 PM, caleb morgan wrote:

> Thanks, Charles, you *are* trying.
>
> Some background. Logic Pro 8 comes with these preset "bands" if you > choose a "Template" under New Project.
>
> The whole idea of Templates is gross, but never mind.
>
> There's a collection of cheesy orchestral instruments.
>
> They are worse than a Proteus II.
>
> But I thought I could make a "beginner's mess" if I could simply > pitch-bend them.
>
> Microtonal chords will sound cheesy in a different way
>
> The tuning spec, at least, gives you more resolution, but you are > probably right--the accuracy isn't too great.
>
> Still, I can live with 1/64th of a semitone for a piece just to get > my feet wet.
>
> If I wait til I can do something I actually like with Logic, I'll > probably never do anything at all.
>
> So, it's just a little tech obstacle: Where do I turn pitch-bend on > (and set the range) with a given instrument?
>
> You might think this is easy: In fact, it is, if you know how to do > it already.
>
> But a good half-hour to an hour with this one little obstacle is > enough to be fairly discouraging.
>
> On the bright side, I find the prospect of composing little thingies > that people on the tuning list will hear is highly motivating. I > haven't had a bunch of people to compose for in a while, and there > are lots of great ears here.
>
> caleb
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 19, 2008, at 3:28 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>
>> From my experience Logic should play back pitchbend values from >> midi files.
>>
>>
>> There are a number of disadvantages with using pitchbend.
>>
>> a) resolution only to nearest 64th of a semitone.
>> b) latency which may be hear as "pitch slides"
>> c) All notes on any channel will be pitchbent.
>> d) need to use unique channel of each simultaneous note.
>>
>> If you use Logic as intended, you can use 36 notes per octave if >> you do it in three stages.
>>
>> a) Set up three tuning tables having decided which note is to play >> which 36 notes.
>> b) Split your midi data into three regions
>> c) Convert each into an audio file with the appropriate tuning table.
>> d) Mix the audios to combine them
>>
>> Obviously like all systems Logic has its advantages and >> disadvantages.
>>
>> I agreed that Logic 8 could be more user-friendly and allow greater >> microtuning flexibility, so I am giving you the benefit of my >> experience and advice on the best work-arounds that I have found.
>>
>>
>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 20:00, caleb morgan wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> caleb wrote:
>>> thanks for the info, Charles. I may well work with tuning files.
>>>
>>> In general, I need a continuously variable tuning. I don't want >>> to be locked into anyone's tuning scheme. I need 36+ notes per >>> 2/1 available at all times.
>>>
>>> I'm willing to insert pitch-bend commands with each note, by >>> hand. Compared to composing, this is not too arduous.
>>>
>>> That way, I can at least start to make music without all this tech >>> getting in my way.
>>>
>>> **My question: The orchestral instruments don't seem to be pitch->>> bending!
>>>
>>> (This, if true, would be an example of Logic's sophistication >>> making life harder for unconventional users)
>>>
>>> (The first time I attempted to edit a pitch-bend, Logic hard->>> crashed. Not a promising beginning)
>>>
>>> Is this because some well-meaning programmer didn't think pitch->>> bend should work, or that pitch-bend would confuse consumers?
>>>
>>> Can I turn this no-pitch-bend feature off?
>>>
>>> this, so far, is example # 37 of Logic being hard to use...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 2:00 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just download the LucyTuning Logic files, decompress them and >>>> read the readme.txt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
>>>>
>>>> It will explain how to microtune your tracks.
>>>>
>>>> Once you understand how they work, you can modify them or make >>>> your own tuning files in .scl format which Logic can read and use.
>>>>
>>>> You have to think about the microtuning as + or - cent values >>>> from 12edo for each of the 12 notes, if you are editing them from >>>> within Logic.
>>>>
>>>> As far as finding the most "consonant" tuning; think like a >>>> musician rather than a mathematical robot which looks for >>>> proximity to integer ratios;-)
>>>>
>>>> Get Logic up and running then use your mouse and go:
>>>>
>>>> File/Project Settings/Tuning; you will see the window which tells >>>> you the +/- offsets from 12edo for each of the 12 edo notes.
>>>>
>>>> You can change the values and then save the "new" tuning files >>>> for later use.
>>>>
>>>> Read Chapter 40 of the Logic Manual page 944 onwards for the >>>> details, or search tuning in the Logic Help.
>>>>
>>>> There are lotsa videos on youtube to assist you - search on Logic >>>> too find them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 18:09, caleb morgan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks for good answer, much food for thought.
>>>>>
>>>>> --gaak! I've got to buy more stuff!
>>>>>
>>>>> --the other info sounds good
>>>>>
>>>>> --So far, I've seen some features of Logic that I can't use--12->>>>> note microtuning and some kind of automated re-tuning that >>>>> attempts to find the most consonant tuning for what you've >>>>> written--both strike me as almost useless, but I have to look >>>>> again.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --in general, higher-level features that lock you into some >>>>> system make life more difficult, not easier. I'd love to have a >>>>> plain vanilla sequencer that lets me work in Hertz, or cents.
>>>>>
>>>>> --I'm just suffering from feature overload with Logic Pro--I >>>>> can't get any sounds that I like with it, and it seems to have a >>>>> zillion features that I don't want.
>>>>>
>>>>> --What are the features/ways of working that Logic 7/Pro 8 have >>>>> introduced that make microtones easy?
>>>>>
>>>>> --thanks again
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The best way to make your samples is to use KeyMap by Redmatica.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Welcome_to_Redmatica.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> which will sort them out for you automatically including tuning >>>>>> to the nearest 12edo pitches.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It also enables you to do some very fancy looping, editing and >>>>>> other tweaking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The other alternative is to use the edit functions in EXS24, >>>>>> which is tedious, yet still possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can microtune to the nearest 1/10th of a cent using the >>>>>> microtuning capability for one set of twelve notes per octave.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For more notes per octave, bounce one set of pitches to an >>>>>> audio file, bounce the other (different/remaining) pitches, >>>>>> and mix the two audio tracks to cover all your chosen pitches.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More info. on Logic and microtuning EXS and samples for it can >>>>>> be found here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Microtuning with Logic has all become very easy nowadays since >>>>>> the introduction of Logic 7 and Pro 8.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 16:45, caleb morgan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> caleb writes: I'm struggling to figure out how to use Logic >>>>>>> Pro. I want to use my own samples.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there a way to import a sample, trigger it from a midi >>>>>>> keyboard, and map it to selected keys, and tune them?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do I need a separate sampler plug-in?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Logic Pro seems designed with people different than me in >>>>>>> mind....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Messages in this topic (5)Reply (via web post) | Start a new >>>>>>>> topic
>>>>>>>> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | >>>>>>>> Members | Calendar
>>>>>>>> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email >>>>>>>> to one
>>>>>>>> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the >>>>>>>> list):
>>>>>>>> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
>>>>>>>> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
>>>>>>>> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
>>>>>>>> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily >>>>>>>> digests.
>>>>>>>> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send >>>>>>>> individual emails.
>>>>>>>> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help >>>>>>>> information.
>>>>>>>> MARKETPLACE
>>>>>>>> From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from >>>>>>>> Kraft Foods
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
>>>>>>>> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | >>>>>>>> Switch format to Traditional
>>>>>>>> Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
>>>>>>>> RECENT ACTIVITY
>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>> New Members
>>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>>> New Files
>>>>>>>> Visit Your Group
>>>>>>>> Share Photos
>>>>>>>> Put your favorite
>>>>>>>> photos and
>>>>>>>> more online.
>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups
>>>>>>>> Latest product news
>>>>>>>> Join Mod. Central
>>>>>>>> stay connected.
>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups
>>>>>>>> Special K Challenge
>>>>>>>> Join others who
>>>>>>>> are losing pounds.
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Charles Lucy
>>>>>> lucy@...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>>>>>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Charles Lucy
>>>> lucy@...
>>>>
>>>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>>>
>>>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>>>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>>>
>>>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>>>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Charles Lucy
>> lucy@...
>>
>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>
>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>
>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

🔗caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...>

I'm Just Not Getting it. arrrrggg.

I'm looking at the Inspector pane, I think, on the left.

Let's say I pick Inst 20, Tuba.

I'll list what it says:

Icon:
Core Audio: Inst 20
Midi Channel: All
Value as: dB
Transposition: +-0
Velocity: +-0
Key Limit
Vel Limit
Delay
No tranpose
No reset
Style: tuba

where is the parameter for pitch-bend?

I feel so....slow.

caleb

On Nov 19, 2008, at 5:05 PM, Ozan Yarman wrote:

>
> Hey Caleb, I discovered how to turn pitch-bend on the hard way in > Logic Pro 8. You need to double-click the EXS instrument in the > instrument strip on the left-hand-side (Inspector pane), and make > sure that the pitch under the random dial is set to 1 or higher. 2 > is the range of the ET wholetone, 12 is the range of the octave.
>
> Oz.
>
> On Nov 19, 2008, at 11:40 PM, caleb morgan wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Charles, you *are* trying.
>>
>> Some background. Logic Pro 8 comes with these preset "bands" if >> you choose a "Template" under New Project.
>>
>> The whole idea of Templates is gross, but never mind.
>>
>> There's a collection of cheesy orchestral instruments.
>>
>> They are worse than a Proteus II.
>>
>> But I thought I could make a "beginner's mess" if I could simply >> pitch-bend them.
>>
>> Microtonal chords will sound cheesy in a different way
>>
>> The tuning spec, at least, gives you more resolution, but you are >> probably right--the accuracy isn't too great.
>>
>> Still, I can live with 1/64th of a semitone for a piece just to get >> my feet wet.
>>
>> If I wait til I can do something I actually like with Logic, I'll >> probably never do anything at all.
>>
>> So, it's just a little tech obstacle: Where do I turn pitch-bend >> on (and set the range) with a given instrument?
>>
>> You might think this is easy: In fact, it is, if you know how to >> do it already.
>>
>> But a good half-hour to an hour with this one little obstacle is >> enough to be fairly discouraging.
>>
>> On the bright side, I find the prospect of composing little >> thingies that people on the tuning list will hear is highly >> motivating. I haven't had a bunch of people to compose for in a >> while, and there are lots of great ears here.
>>
>> caleb
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 3:28 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>>
>>> From my experience Logic should play back pitchbend values from >>> midi files.
>>>
>>>
>>> There are a number of disadvantages with using pitchbend.
>>>
>>> a) resolution only to nearest 64th of a semitone.
>>> b) latency which may be hear as "pitch slides"
>>> c) All notes on any channel will be pitchbent.
>>> d) need to use unique channel of each simultaneous note.
>>>
>>> If you use Logic as intended, you can use 36 notes per octave if >>> you do it in three stages.
>>>
>>> a) Set up three tuning tables having decided which note is to play >>> which 36 notes.
>>> b) Split your midi data into three regions
>>> c) Convert each into an audio file with the appropriate tuning >>> table.
>>> d) Mix the audios to combine them
>>>
>>> Obviously like all systems Logic has its advantages and >>> disadvantages.
>>>
>>> I agreed that Logic 8 could be more user-friendly and allow >>> greater microtuning flexibility, so I am giving you the benefit of >>> my experience and advice on the best work-arounds that I have found.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 20:00, caleb morgan wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> caleb wrote:
>>>> thanks for the info, Charles. I may well work with tuning files.
>>>>
>>>> In general, I need a continuously variable tuning. I don't >>>> want to be locked into anyone's tuning scheme. I need 36+ notes >>>> per 2/1 available at all times.
>>>>
>>>> I'm willing to insert pitch-bend commands with each note, by >>>> hand. Compared to composing, this is not too arduous.
>>>>
>>>> That way, I can at least start to make music without all this >>>> tech getting in my way.
>>>>
>>>> **My question: The orchestral instruments don't seem to be pitch->>>> bending!
>>>>
>>>> (This, if true, would be an example of Logic's sophistication >>>> making life harder for unconventional users)
>>>>
>>>> (The first time I attempted to edit a pitch-bend, Logic hard->>>> crashed. Not a promising beginning)
>>>>
>>>> Is this because some well-meaning programmer didn't think pitch->>>> bend should work, or that pitch-bend would confuse consumers?
>>>>
>>>> Can I turn this no-pitch-bend feature off?
>>>>
>>>> this, so far, is example # 37 of Logic being hard to use...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 2:00 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Just download the LucyTuning Logic files, decompress them and >>>>> read the readme.txt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
>>>>>
>>>>> It will explain how to microtune your tracks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once you understand how they work, you can modify them or make >>>>> your own tuning files in .scl format which Logic can read and use.
>>>>>
>>>>> You have to think about the microtuning as + or - cent values >>>>> from 12edo for each of the 12 notes, if you are editing them >>>>> from within Logic.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as finding the most "consonant" tuning; think like a >>>>> musician rather than a mathematical robot which looks for >>>>> proximity to integer ratios;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Get Logic up and running then use your mouse and go:
>>>>>
>>>>> File/Project Settings/Tuning; you will see the window which >>>>> tells you the +/- offsets from 12edo for each of the 12 edo notes.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can change the values and then save the "new" tuning files >>>>> for later use.
>>>>>
>>>>> Read Chapter 40 of the Logic Manual page 944 onwards for the >>>>> details, or search tuning in the Logic Help.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are lotsa videos on youtube to assist you - search on >>>>> Logic too find them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 18:09, caleb morgan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks for good answer, much food for thought.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --gaak! I've got to buy more stuff!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --the other info sounds good
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --So far, I've seen some features of Logic that I can't use--12->>>>>> note microtuning and some kind of automated re-tuning that >>>>>> attempts to find the most consonant tuning for what you've >>>>>> written--both strike me as almost useless, but I have to look >>>>>> again.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --in general, higher-level features that lock you into some >>>>>> system make life more difficult, not easier. I'd love to have >>>>>> a plain vanilla sequencer that lets me work in Hertz, or cents.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --I'm just suffering from feature overload with Logic Pro--I >>>>>> can't get any sounds that I like with it, and it seems to have >>>>>> a zillion features that I don't want.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --What are the features/ways of working that Logic 7/Pro 8 have >>>>>> introduced that make microtones easy?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --thanks again
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The best way to make your samples is to use KeyMap by Redmatica.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Welcome_to_Redmatica.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> which will sort them out for you automatically including >>>>>>> tuning to the nearest 12edo pitches.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It also enables you to do some very fancy looping, editing and >>>>>>> other tweaking.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The other alternative is to use the edit functions in EXS24, >>>>>>> which is tedious, yet still possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can microtune to the nearest 1/10th of a cent using the >>>>>>> microtuning capability for one set of twelve notes per octave.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For more notes per octave, bounce one set of pitches to an >>>>>>> audio file, bounce the other (different/remaining) pitches, >>>>>>> and mix the two audio tracks to cover all your chosen pitches.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> More info. on Logic and microtuning EXS and samples for it can >>>>>>> be found here:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Microtuning with Logic has all become very easy nowadays since >>>>>>> the introduction of Logic 7 and Pro 8.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 16:45, caleb morgan wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> caleb writes: I'm struggling to figure out how to use Logic >>>>>>>> Pro. I want to use my own samples.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is there a way to import a sample, trigger it from a midi >>>>>>>> keyboard, and map it to selected keys, and tune them?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do I need a separate sampler plug-in?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Logic Pro seems designed with people different than me in >>>>>>>> mind....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Messages in this topic (5)Reply (via web post) | Start a new >>>>>>>>> topic
>>>>>>>>> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | >>>>>>>>> Members | Calendar
>>>>>>>>> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty >>>>>>>>> email to one
>>>>>>>>> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive >>>>>>>>> the list):
>>>>>>>>> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
>>>>>>>>> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
>>>>>>>>> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the >>>>>>>>> group.
>>>>>>>>> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily >>>>>>>>> digests.
>>>>>>>>> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send >>>>>>>>> individual emails.
>>>>>>>>> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help >>>>>>>>> information.
>>>>>>>>> MARKETPLACE
>>>>>>>>> From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from >>>>>>>>> Kraft Foods
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
>>>>>>>>> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | >>>>>>>>> Switch format to Traditional
>>>>>>>>> Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
>>>>>>>>> RECENT ACTIVITY
>>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>>> New Members
>>>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>>>> New Files
>>>>>>>>> Visit Your Group
>>>>>>>>> Share Photos
>>>>>>>>> Put your favorite
>>>>>>>>> photos and
>>>>>>>>> more online.
>>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups
>>>>>>>>> Latest product news
>>>>>>>>> Join Mod. Central
>>>>>>>>> stay connected.
>>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups
>>>>>>>>> Special K Challenge
>>>>>>>>> Join others who
>>>>>>>>> are losing pounds.
>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Charles Lucy
>>>>>>> lucy@...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>>>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>>>>>>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Charles Lucy
>>>>> lucy@...
>>>>>
>>>>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>>>>
>>>>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>>>>
>>>>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>>>>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Charles Lucy
>>> lucy@...
>>>
>>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>>
>>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>>
>>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...>

Don't be discouraged. At the bottom of the pane is the instrument strip. Read the EXS button? Double click that. Hark! The EXS sampler window opens. Follow my instructions from thereforth.

Oz.

On Nov 20, 2008, at 12:32 AM, caleb morgan wrote:

>
>
> I'm Just Not Getting it. arrrrggg.
>
> I'm looking at the Inspector pane, I think, on the left.
>
> Let's say I pick Inst 20, Tuba.
>
> I'll list what it says:
>
> Icon:
> Core Audio: Inst 20
> Midi Channel: All
> Value as: dB
> Transposition: +-0
> Velocity: +-0
> Key Limit
> Vel Limit
> Delay
> No tranpose
> No reset
> Style: tuba
>
>
> where is the parameter for pitch-bend?
>
>
> I feel so....slow.
>
> caleb
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 19, 2008, at 5:05 PM, Ozan Yarman wrote:
>
>>
>> Hey Caleb, I discovered how to turn pitch-bend on the hard way in >> Logic Pro 8. You need to double-click the EXS instrument in the >> instrument strip on the left-hand-side (Inspector pane), and make >> sure that the pitch under the random dial is set to 1 or higher. 2 >> is the range of the ET wholetone, 12 is the range of the octave.
>>
>> Oz.
>>
>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 11:40 PM, caleb morgan wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, Charles, you *are* trying.
>>>
>>> Some background. Logic Pro 8 comes with these preset "bands" if >>> you choose a "Template" under New Project.
>>>
>>> The whole idea of Templates is gross, but never mind.
>>>
>>> There's a collection of cheesy orchestral instruments.
>>>
>>> They are worse than a Proteus II.
>>>
>>> But I thought I could make a "beginner's mess" if I could simply >>> pitch-bend them.
>>>
>>> Microtonal chords will sound cheesy in a different way
>>>
>>> The tuning spec, at least, gives you more resolution, but you are >>> probably right--the accuracy isn't too great.
>>>
>>> Still, I can live with 1/64th of a semitone for a piece just to >>> get my feet wet.
>>>
>>> If I wait til I can do something I actually like with Logic, I'll >>> probably never do anything at all.
>>>
>>> So, it's just a little tech obstacle: Where do I turn pitch-bend >>> on (and set the range) with a given instrument?
>>>
>>> You might think this is easy: In fact, it is, if you know how to >>> do it already.
>>>
>>> But a good half-hour to an hour with this one little obstacle is >>> enough to be fairly discouraging.
>>>
>>> On the bright side, I find the prospect of composing little >>> thingies that people on the tuning list will hear is highly >>> motivating. I haven't had a bunch of people to compose for in a >>> while, and there are lots of great ears here.
>>>
>>> caleb
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 3:28 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>>>
>>>> From my experience Logic should play back pitchbend values from >>>> midi files.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are a number of disadvantages with using pitchbend.
>>>>
>>>> a) resolution only to nearest 64th of a semitone.
>>>> b) latency which may be hear as "pitch slides"
>>>> c) All notes on any channel will be pitchbent.
>>>> d) need to use unique channel of each simultaneous note.
>>>>
>>>> If you use Logic as intended, you can use 36 notes per octave if >>>> you do it in three stages.
>>>>
>>>> a) Set up three tuning tables having decided which note is to >>>> play which 36 notes.
>>>> b) Split your midi data into three regions
>>>> c) Convert each into an audio file with the appropriate tuning >>>> table.
>>>> d) Mix the audios to combine them
>>>>
>>>> Obviously like all systems Logic has its advantages and >>>> disadvantages.
>>>>
>>>> I agreed that Logic 8 could be more user-friendly and allow >>>> greater microtuning flexibility, so I am giving you the benefit >>>> of my experience and advice on the best work-arounds that I have >>>> found.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 20:00, caleb morgan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> caleb wrote:
>>>>> thanks for the info, Charles. I may well work with tuning files.
>>>>>
>>>>> In general, I need a continuously variable tuning. I don't >>>>> want to be locked into anyone's tuning scheme. I need 36+ notes >>>>> per 2/1 available at all times.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm willing to insert pitch-bend commands with each note, by >>>>> hand. Compared to composing, this is not too arduous.
>>>>>
>>>>> That way, I can at least start to make music without all this >>>>> tech getting in my way.
>>>>>
>>>>> **My question: The orchestral instruments don't seem to be >>>>> pitch-bending!
>>>>>
>>>>> (This, if true, would be an example of Logic's sophistication >>>>> making life harder for unconventional users)
>>>>>
>>>>> (The first time I attempted to edit a pitch-bend, Logic hard->>>>> crashed. Not a promising beginning)
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this because some well-meaning programmer didn't think pitch->>>>> bend should work, or that pitch-bend would confuse consumers?
>>>>>
>>>>> Can I turn this no-pitch-bend feature off?
>>>>>
>>>>> this, so far, is example # 37 of Logic being hard to use...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 2:00 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Just download the LucyTuning Logic files, decompress them and >>>>>> read the readme.txt
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It will explain how to microtune your tracks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once you understand how they work, you can modify them or make >>>>>> your own tuning files in .scl format which Logic can read and >>>>>> use.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You have to think about the microtuning as + or - cent values >>>>>> from 12edo for each of the 12 notes, if you are editing them >>>>>> from within Logic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as finding the most "consonant" tuning; think like a >>>>>> musician rather than a mathematical robot which looks for >>>>>> proximity to integer ratios;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Get Logic up and running then use your mouse and go:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> File/Project Settings/Tuning; you will see the window which >>>>>> tells you the +/- offsets from 12edo for each of the 12 edo >>>>>> notes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can change the values and then save the "new" tuning files >>>>>> for later use.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Read Chapter 40 of the Logic Manual page 944 onwards for the >>>>>> details, or search tuning in the Logic Help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are lotsa videos on youtube to assist you - search on >>>>>> Logic too find them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 18:09, caleb morgan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks for good answer, much food for thought.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --gaak! I've got to buy more stuff!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --the other info sounds good
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --So far, I've seen some features of Logic that I can't >>>>>>> use--12-note microtuning and some kind of automated re-tuning >>>>>>> that attempts to find the most consonant tuning for what >>>>>>> you've written--both strike me as almost useless, but I have >>>>>>> to look again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --in general, higher-level features that lock you into some >>>>>>> system make life more difficult, not easier. I'd love to have >>>>>>> a plain vanilla sequencer that lets me work in Hertz, or cents.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --I'm just suffering from feature overload with Logic Pro--I >>>>>>> can't get any sounds that I like with it, and it seems to have >>>>>>> a zillion features that I don't want.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --What are the features/ways of working that Logic 7/Pro 8 >>>>>>> have introduced that make microtones easy?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --thanks again
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The best way to make your samples is to use KeyMap by >>>>>>>> Redmatica.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Welcome_to_Redmatica.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> which will sort them out for you automatically including >>>>>>>> tuning to the nearest 12edo pitches.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It also enables you to do some very fancy looping, editing >>>>>>>> and other tweaking.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The other alternative is to use the edit functions in EXS24, >>>>>>>> which is tedious, yet still possible.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can microtune to the nearest 1/10th of a cent using the >>>>>>>> microtuning capability for one set of twelve notes per octave.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For more notes per octave, bounce one set of pitches to an >>>>>>>> audio file, bounce the other (different/remaining) pitches, >>>>>>>> and mix the two audio tracks to cover all your chosen pitches.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> More info. on Logic and microtuning EXS and samples for it >>>>>>>> can be found here:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Microtuning with Logic has all become very easy nowadays >>>>>>>> since the introduction of Logic 7 and Pro 8.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 16:45, caleb morgan wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> caleb writes: I'm struggling to figure out how to use Logic >>>>>>>>> Pro. I want to use my own samples.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Is there a way to import a sample, trigger it from a midi >>>>>>>>> keyboard, and map it to selected keys, and tune them?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do I need a separate sampler plug-in?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Logic Pro seems designed with people different than me in >>>>>>>>> mind....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Messages in this topic (5)Reply (via web post) | Start a >>>>>>>>>> new topic
>>>>>>>>>> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | >>>>>>>>>> Members | Calendar
>>>>>>>>>> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty >>>>>>>>>> email to one
>>>>>>>>>> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive >>>>>>>>>> the list):
>>>>>>>>>> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
>>>>>>>>>> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
>>>>>>>>>> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the >>>>>>>>>> group.
>>>>>>>>>> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily >>>>>>>>>> digests.
>>>>>>>>>> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send >>>>>>>>>> individual emails.
>>>>>>>>>> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help >>>>>>>>>> information.
>>>>>>>>>> MARKETPLACE
>>>>>>>>>> From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from >>>>>>>>>> Kraft Foods
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
>>>>>>>>>> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest >>>>>>>>>> | Switch format to Traditional
>>>>>>>>>> Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
>>>>>>>>>> RECENT ACTIVITY
>>>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>>>> New Members
>>>>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>>>>> New Files
>>>>>>>>>> Visit Your Group
>>>>>>>>>> Share Photos
>>>>>>>>>> Put your favorite
>>>>>>>>>> photos and
>>>>>>>>>> more online.
>>>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups
>>>>>>>>>> Latest product news
>>>>>>>>>> Join Mod. Central
>>>>>>>>>> stay connected.
>>>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups
>>>>>>>>>> Special K Challenge
>>>>>>>>>> Join others who
>>>>>>>>>> are losing pounds.
>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Charles Lucy
>>>>>>>> lucy@...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>>>>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>>>>>>>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Charles Lucy
>>>>>> lucy@...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>>>>>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Charles Lucy
>>>> lucy@...
>>>>
>>>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>>>
>>>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>>>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>>>
>>>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>>>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

🔗caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...>

I lavish your hideous feet with a thousand kisses.

(Snarky comment aimed at Logic: what an unintuitive place to hide this feature! And how could I have found this in the manual? Under pitch-bend? no sir. I think Logic is the Microsoft Word of sequencers.)

On Nov 19, 2008, at 6:13 PM, Ozan Yarman wrote:

>
> Don't be discouraged. At the bottom of the pane is the instrument > strip. Read the EXS button? Double click that. Hark! The EXS sampler > window opens. Follow my instructions from thereforth.
>
> Oz.
>
> On Nov 20, 2008, at 12:32 AM, caleb morgan wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I'm Just Not Getting it. arrrrggg.
>>
>> I'm looking at the Inspector pane, I think, on the left.
>>
>> Let's say I pick Inst 20, Tuba.
>>
>> I'll list what it says:
>>
>> Icon:
>> Core Audio: Inst 20
>> Midi Channel: All
>> Value as: dB
>> Transposition: +-0
>> Velocity: +-0
>> Key Limit
>> Vel Limit
>> Delay
>> No tranpose
>> No reset
>> Style: tuba
>>
>>
>> where is the parameter for pitch-bend?
>>
>>
>> I feel so....slow.
>>
>> caleb
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 5:05 PM, Ozan Yarman wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hey Caleb, I discovered how to turn pitch-bend on the hard way in >>> Logic Pro 8. You need to double-click the EXS instrument in the >>> instrument strip on the left-hand-side (Inspector pane), and make >>> sure that the pitch under the random dial is set to 1 or higher. 2 >>> is the range of the ET wholetone, 12 is the range of the octave.
>>>
>>> Oz.
>>>
>>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 11:40 PM, caleb morgan wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks, Charles, you *are* trying.
>>>>
>>>> Some background. Logic Pro 8 comes with these preset "bands" if >>>> you choose a "Template" under New Project.
>>>>
>>>> The whole idea of Templates is gross, but never mind.
>>>>
>>>> There's a collection of cheesy orchestral instruments.
>>>>
>>>> They are worse than a Proteus II.
>>>>
>>>> But I thought I could make a "beginner's mess" if I could simply >>>> pitch-bend them.
>>>>
>>>> Microtonal chords will sound cheesy in a different way
>>>>
>>>> The tuning spec, at least, gives you more resolution, but you are >>>> probably right--the accuracy isn't too great.
>>>>
>>>> Still, I can live with 1/64th of a semitone for a piece just to >>>> get my feet wet.
>>>>
>>>> If I wait til I can do something I actually like with Logic, I'll >>>> probably never do anything at all.
>>>>
>>>> So, it's just a little tech obstacle: Where do I turn pitch-bend >>>> on (and set the range) with a given instrument?
>>>>
>>>> You might think this is easy: In fact, it is, if you know how to >>>> do it already.
>>>>
>>>> But a good half-hour to an hour with this one little obstacle is >>>> enough to be fairly discouraging.
>>>>
>>>> On the bright side, I find the prospect of composing little >>>> thingies that people on the tuning list will hear is highly >>>> motivating. I haven't had a bunch of people to compose for in a >>>> while, and there are lots of great ears here.
>>>>
>>>> caleb
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 3:28 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From my experience Logic should play back pitchbend values from >>>>> midi files.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There are a number of disadvantages with using pitchbend.
>>>>>
>>>>> a) resolution only to nearest 64th of a semitone.
>>>>> b) latency which may be hear as "pitch slides"
>>>>> c) All notes on any channel will be pitchbent.
>>>>> d) need to use unique channel of each simultaneous note.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you use Logic as intended, you can use 36 notes per octave if >>>>> you do it in three stages.
>>>>>
>>>>> a) Set up three tuning tables having decided which note is to >>>>> play which 36 notes.
>>>>> b) Split your midi data into three regions
>>>>> c) Convert each into an audio file with the appropriate tuning >>>>> table.
>>>>> d) Mix the audios to combine them
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously like all systems Logic has its advantages and >>>>> disadvantages.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agreed that Logic 8 could be more user-friendly and allow >>>>> greater microtuning flexibility, so I am giving you the benefit >>>>> of my experience and advice on the best work-arounds that I have >>>>> found.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 20:00, caleb morgan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> caleb wrote:
>>>>>> thanks for the info, Charles. I may well work with tuning files.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In general, I need a continuously variable tuning. I don't >>>>>> want to be locked into anyone's tuning scheme. I need 36+ >>>>>> notes per 2/1 available at all times.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm willing to insert pitch-bend commands with each note, by >>>>>> hand. Compared to composing, this is not too arduous.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That way, I can at least start to make music without all this >>>>>> tech getting in my way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **My question: The orchestral instruments don't seem to be >>>>>> pitch-bending!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (This, if true, would be an example of Logic's sophistication >>>>>> making life harder for unconventional users)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (The first time I attempted to edit a pitch-bend, Logic hard->>>>>> crashed. Not a promising beginning)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is this because some well-meaning programmer didn't think pitch->>>>>> bend should work, or that pitch-bend would confuse consumers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can I turn this no-pitch-bend feature off?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> this, so far, is example # 37 of Logic being hard to use...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 2:00 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just download the LucyTuning Logic files, decompress them and >>>>>>> read the readme.txt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It will explain how to microtune your tracks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Once you understand how they work, you can modify them or make >>>>>>> your own tuning files in .scl format which Logic can read and >>>>>>> use.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You have to think about the microtuning as + or - cent values >>>>>>> from 12edo for each of the 12 notes, if you are editing them >>>>>>> from within Logic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As far as finding the most "consonant" tuning; think like a >>>>>>> musician rather than a mathematical robot which looks for >>>>>>> proximity to integer ratios;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Get Logic up and running then use your mouse and go:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> File/Project Settings/Tuning; you will see the window which >>>>>>> tells you the +/- offsets from 12edo for each of the 12 edo >>>>>>> notes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can change the values and then save the "new" tuning files >>>>>>> for later use.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Read Chapter 40 of the Logic Manual page 944 onwards for the >>>>>>> details, or search tuning in the Logic Help.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are lotsa videos on youtube to assist you - search on >>>>>>> Logic too find them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 18:09, caleb morgan wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thanks for good answer, much food for thought.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --gaak! I've got to buy more stuff!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --the other info sounds good
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --So far, I've seen some features of Logic that I can't >>>>>>>> use--12-note microtuning and some kind of automated re-tuning >>>>>>>> that attempts to find the most consonant tuning for what >>>>>>>> you've written--both strike me as almost useless, but I have >>>>>>>> to look again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --in general, higher-level features that lock you into some >>>>>>>> system make life more difficult, not easier. I'd love to >>>>>>>> have a plain vanilla sequencer that lets me work in Hertz, or >>>>>>>> cents.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --I'm just suffering from feature overload with Logic Pro--I >>>>>>>> can't get any sounds that I like with it, and it seems to >>>>>>>> have a zillion features that I don't want.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --What are the features/ways of working that Logic 7/Pro 8 >>>>>>>> have introduced that make microtones easy?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --thanks again
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The best way to make your samples is to use KeyMap by >>>>>>>>> Redmatica.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Welcome_to_Redmatica.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> which will sort them out for you automatically including >>>>>>>>> tuning to the nearest 12edo pitches.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It also enables you to do some very fancy looping, editing >>>>>>>>> and other tweaking.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The other alternative is to use the edit functions in EXS24, >>>>>>>>> which is tedious, yet still possible.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can microtune to the nearest 1/10th of a cent using the >>>>>>>>> microtuning capability for one set of twelve notes per octave.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For more notes per octave, bounce one set of pitches to an >>>>>>>>> audio file, bounce the other (different/remaining) pitches, >>>>>>>>> and mix the two audio tracks to cover all your chosen pitches.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> More info. on Logic and microtuning EXS and samples for it >>>>>>>>> can be found here:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Microtuning with Logic has all become very easy nowadays >>>>>>>>> since the introduction of Logic 7 and Pro 8.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 16:45, caleb morgan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> caleb writes: I'm struggling to figure out how to use >>>>>>>>>> Logic Pro. I want to use my own samples.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is there a way to import a sample, trigger it from a midi >>>>>>>>>> keyboard, and map it to selected keys, and tune them?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Do I need a separate sampler plug-in?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Logic Pro seems designed with people different than me in >>>>>>>>>> mind....
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Messages in this topic (5)Reply (via web post) | Start a >>>>>>>>>>> new topic
>>>>>>>>>>> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | >>>>>>>>>>> Members | Calendar
>>>>>>>>>>> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty >>>>>>>>>>> email to one
>>>>>>>>>>> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive >>>>>>>>>>> the list):
>>>>>>>>>>> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
>>>>>>>>>>> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
>>>>>>>>>>> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the >>>>>>>>>>> group.
>>>>>>>>>>> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily >>>>>>>>>>> digests.
>>>>>>>>>>> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send >>>>>>>>>>> individual emails.
>>>>>>>>>>> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help >>>>>>>>>>> information.
>>>>>>>>>>> MARKETPLACE
>>>>>>>>>>> From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from >>>>>>>>>>> Kraft Foods
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
>>>>>>>>>>> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest >>>>>>>>>>> | Switch format to Traditional
>>>>>>>>>>> Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
>>>>>>>>>>> RECENT ACTIVITY
>>>>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>>>>> New Members
>>>>>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>>>>>> New Files
>>>>>>>>>>> Visit Your Group
>>>>>>>>>>> Share Photos
>>>>>>>>>>> Put your favorite
>>>>>>>>>>> photos and
>>>>>>>>>>> more online.
>>>>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups
>>>>>>>>>>> Latest product news
>>>>>>>>>>> Join Mod. Central
>>>>>>>>>>> stay connected.
>>>>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups
>>>>>>>>>>> Special K Challenge
>>>>>>>>>>> Join others who
>>>>>>>>>>> are losing pounds.
>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Charles Lucy
>>>>>>>>> lucy@...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Charles Lucy
>>>>>>> lucy@...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>>>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>>>>>>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Charles Lucy
>>>>> lucy@...
>>>>>
>>>>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>>>>
>>>>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>>>>
>>>>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>>>>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...>

My hideously-hairy-yet-delightfully-pleasant feet thank you for the lasvicious pecks.

Glad to be able to help!

Oz.

On Nov 20, 2008, at 1:28 AM, caleb morgan wrote:

>
> I lavish your hideous feet with a thousand kisses.
>
> (Snarky comment aimed at Logic: what an unintuitive place to hide > this feature! And how could I have found this in the manual? Under > pitch-bend? no sir. I think Logic is the Microsoft Word of > sequencers.)
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 19, 2008, at 6:13 PM, Ozan Yarman wrote:
>
>>
>> Don't be discouraged. At the bottom of the pane is the instrument >> strip. Read the EXS button? Double click that. Hark! The EXS >> sampler window opens. Follow my instructions from thereforth.
>>
>> Oz.
>>
>> On Nov 20, 2008, at 12:32 AM, caleb morgan wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm Just Not Getting it. arrrrggg.
>>>
>>> I'm looking at the Inspector pane, I think, on the left.
>>>
>>> Let's say I pick Inst 20, Tuba.
>>>
>>> I'll list what it says:
>>>
>>> Icon:
>>> Core Audio: Inst 20
>>> Midi Channel: All
>>> Value as: dB
>>> Transposition: +-0
>>> Velocity: +-0
>>> Key Limit
>>> Vel Limit
>>> Delay
>>> No tranpose
>>> No reset
>>> Style: tuba
>>>
>>>
>>> where is the parameter for pitch-bend?
>>>
>>>
>>> I feel so....slow.
>>>
>>> caleb
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 5:05 PM, Ozan Yarman wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey Caleb, I discovered how to turn pitch-bend on the hard way in >>>> Logic Pro 8. You need to double-click the EXS instrument in the >>>> instrument strip on the left-hand-side (Inspector pane), and make >>>> sure that the pitch under the random dial is set to 1 or higher. >>>> 2 is the range of the ET wholetone, 12 is the range of the octave.
>>>>
>>>> Oz.
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 11:40 PM, caleb morgan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, Charles, you *are* trying.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some background. Logic Pro 8 comes with these preset "bands" if >>>>> you choose a "Template" under New Project.
>>>>>
>>>>> The whole idea of Templates is gross, but never mind.
>>>>>
>>>>> There's a collection of cheesy orchestral instruments.
>>>>>
>>>>> They are worse than a Proteus II.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I thought I could make a "beginner's mess" if I could simply >>>>> pitch-bend them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Microtonal chords will sound cheesy in a different way
>>>>>
>>>>> The tuning spec, at least, gives you more resolution, but you >>>>> are probably right--the accuracy isn't too great.
>>>>>
>>>>> Still, I can live with 1/64th of a semitone for a piece just to >>>>> get my feet wet.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I wait til I can do something I actually like with Logic, >>>>> I'll probably never do anything at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, it's just a little tech obstacle: Where do I turn pitch->>>>> bend on (and set the range) with a given instrument?
>>>>>
>>>>> You might think this is easy: In fact, it is, if you know how >>>>> to do it already.
>>>>>
>>>>> But a good half-hour to an hour with this one little obstacle is >>>>> enough to be fairly discouraging.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the bright side, I find the prospect of composing little >>>>> thingies that people on the tuning list will hear is highly >>>>> motivating. I haven't had a bunch of people to compose for in a >>>>> while, and there are lots of great ears here.
>>>>>
>>>>> caleb
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 3:28 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From my experience Logic should play back pitchbend values from >>>>>> midi files.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are a number of disadvantages with using pitchbend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a) resolution only to nearest 64th of a semitone.
>>>>>> b) latency which may be hear as "pitch slides"
>>>>>> c) All notes on any channel will be pitchbent.
>>>>>> d) need to use unique channel of each simultaneous note.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you use Logic as intended, you can use 36 notes per octave >>>>>> if you do it in three stages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a) Set up three tuning tables having decided which note is to >>>>>> play which 36 notes.
>>>>>> b) Split your midi data into three regions
>>>>>> c) Convert each into an audio file with the appropriate tuning >>>>>> table.
>>>>>> d) Mix the audios to combine them
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Obviously like all systems Logic has its advantages and >>>>>> disadvantages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agreed that Logic 8 could be more user-friendly and allow >>>>>> greater microtuning flexibility, so I am giving you the benefit >>>>>> of my experience and advice on the best work-arounds that I >>>>>> have found.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 20:00, caleb morgan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> caleb wrote:
>>>>>>> thanks for the info, Charles. I may well work with tuning >>>>>>> files.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In general, I need a continuously variable tuning. I don't >>>>>>> want to be locked into anyone's tuning scheme. I need 36+ >>>>>>> notes per 2/1 available at all times.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm willing to insert pitch-bend commands with each note, by >>>>>>> hand. Compared to composing, this is not too arduous.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That way, I can at least start to make music without all this >>>>>>> tech getting in my way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **My question: The orchestral instruments don't seem to be >>>>>>> pitch-bending!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (This, if true, would be an example of Logic's sophistication >>>>>>> making life harder for unconventional users)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (The first time I attempted to edit a pitch-bend, Logic hard->>>>>>> crashed. Not a promising beginning)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is this because some well-meaning programmer didn't think >>>>>>> pitch-bend should work, or that pitch-bend would confuse >>>>>>> consumers?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can I turn this no-pitch-bend feature off?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this, so far, is example # 37 of Logic being hard to use...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 2:00 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just download the LucyTuning Logic files, decompress them and >>>>>>>> read the readme.txt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It will explain how to microtune your tracks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Once you understand how they work, you can modify them or >>>>>>>> make your own tuning files in .scl format which Logic can >>>>>>>> read and use.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You have to think about the microtuning as + or - cent values >>>>>>>> from 12edo for each of the 12 notes, if you are editing them >>>>>>>> from within Logic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As far as finding the most "consonant" tuning; think like a >>>>>>>> musician rather than a mathematical robot which looks for >>>>>>>> proximity to integer ratios;-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Get Logic up and running then use your mouse and go:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> File/Project Settings/Tuning; you will see the window which >>>>>>>> tells you the +/- offsets from 12edo for each of the 12 edo >>>>>>>> notes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can change the values and then save the "new" tuning >>>>>>>> files for later use.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Read Chapter 40 of the Logic Manual page 944 onwards for the >>>>>>>> details, or search tuning in the Logic Help.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are lotsa videos on youtube to assist you - search on >>>>>>>> Logic too find them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 18:09, caleb morgan wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> thanks for good answer, much food for thought.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --gaak! I've got to buy more stuff!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --the other info sounds good
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --So far, I've seen some features of Logic that I can't >>>>>>>>> use--12-note microtuning and some kind of automated re->>>>>>>>> tuning that attempts to find the most consonant tuning for >>>>>>>>> what you've written--both strike me as almost useless, but I >>>>>>>>> have to look again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --in general, higher-level features that lock you into some >>>>>>>>> system make life more difficult, not easier. I'd love to >>>>>>>>> have a plain vanilla sequencer that lets me work in Hertz, >>>>>>>>> or cents.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --I'm just suffering from feature overload with Logic Pro--I >>>>>>>>> can't get any sounds that I like with it, and it seems to >>>>>>>>> have a zillion features that I don't want.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --What are the features/ways of working that Logic 7/Pro 8 >>>>>>>>> have introduced that make microtones easy?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --thanks again
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The best way to make your samples is to use KeyMap by >>>>>>>>>> Redmatica.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Welcome_to_Redmatica.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> which will sort them out for you automatically including >>>>>>>>>> tuning to the nearest 12edo pitches.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It also enables you to do some very fancy looping, editing >>>>>>>>>> and other tweaking.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The other alternative is to use the edit functions in >>>>>>>>>> EXS24, which is tedious, yet still possible.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You can microtune to the nearest 1/10th of a cent using the >>>>>>>>>> microtuning capability for one set of twelve notes per >>>>>>>>>> octave.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For more notes per octave, bounce one set of pitches to an >>>>>>>>>> audio file, bounce the other (different/remaining) >>>>>>>>>> pitches, and mix the two audio tracks to cover all your >>>>>>>>>> chosen pitches.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> More info. on Logic and microtuning EXS and samples for it >>>>>>>>>> can be found here:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Microtuning with Logic has all become very easy nowadays >>>>>>>>>> since the introduction of Logic 7 and Pro 8.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 16:45, caleb morgan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> caleb writes: I'm struggling to figure out how to use >>>>>>>>>>> Logic Pro. I want to use my own samples.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Is there a way to import a sample, trigger it from a midi >>>>>>>>>>> keyboard, and map it to selected keys, and tune them?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Do I need a separate sampler plug-in?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Logic Pro seems designed with people different than me in >>>>>>>>>>> mind....
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Messages in this topic (5)Reply (via web post) | Start a >>>>>>>>>>>> new topic
>>>>>>>>>>>> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | >>>>>>>>>>>> Members | Calendar
>>>>>>>>>>>> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty >>>>>>>>>>>> email to one
>>>>>>>>>>>> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive >>>>>>>>>>>> the list):
>>>>>>>>>>>> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
>>>>>>>>>>>> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
>>>>>>>>>>>> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the >>>>>>>>>>>> group.
>>>>>>>>>>>> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily >>>>>>>>>>>> digests.
>>>>>>>>>>>> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send >>>>>>>>>>>> individual emails.
>>>>>>>>>>>> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help >>>>>>>>>>>> information.
>>>>>>>>>>>> MARKETPLACE
>>>>>>>>>>>> From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from >>>>>>>>>>>> Kraft Foods
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
>>>>>>>>>>>> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily >>>>>>>>>>>> Digest | Switch format to Traditional
>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
>>>>>>>>>>>> RECENT ACTIVITY
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>>>>>> New Members
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>>>>>>> New Files
>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit Your Group
>>>>>>>>>>>> Share Photos
>>>>>>>>>>>> Put your favorite
>>>>>>>>>>>> photos and
>>>>>>>>>>>> more online.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups
>>>>>>>>>>>> Latest product news
>>>>>>>>>>>> Join Mod. Central
>>>>>>>>>>>> stay connected.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups
>>>>>>>>>>>> Special K Challenge
>>>>>>>>>>>> Join others who
>>>>>>>>>>>> are losing pounds.
>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Charles Lucy
>>>>>>>>>> lucy@...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Charles Lucy
>>>>>>>> lucy@...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>>>>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>>>>>>>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Charles Lucy
>>>>>> lucy@...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>>>>>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

🔗Charles Lucy <lucy@...>

You don't need to use the templates, as you can build your own templates from scratch, but they do save you time for a quick setup.

I find that the "best" sounds are obtained by using the sampler. i.e. EXS24.

Sculpture also has some interesting/unusual sounds, and a unique interface which models a vibrating string.

If you really want to get adventurous you could also use Cameleon 5000 with Logic, which is microtunable separately and quite cheap.

It can also make musical "instruments" from a single sample, and use four sounds simultaneously.

http://www.camelaudio.com/cameleon5000.php

It is a plugin via AU.

On 19 Nov 2008, at 21:40, caleb morgan wrote:

>
> Thanks, Charles, you *are* trying.
>
> Some background. Logic Pro 8 comes with these preset "bands" if you > choose a "Template" under New Project.
>
> The whole idea of Templates is gross, but never mind.
>
> There's a collection of cheesy orchestral instruments.
>
> They are worse than a Proteus II.
>
> But I thought I could make a "beginner's mess" if I could simply > pitch-bend them.
>
> Microtonal chords will sound cheesy in a different way
>
> The tuning spec, at least, gives you more resolution, but you are > probably right--the accuracy isn't too great.
>
> Still, I can live with 1/64th of a semitone for a piece just to get > my feet wet.
>
> If I wait til I can do something I actually like with Logic, I'll > probably never do anything at all.
>
> So, it's just a little tech obstacle: Where do I turn pitch-bend on > (and set the range) with a given instrument?
>
> You might think this is easy: In fact, it is, if you know how to do > it already.
>
> But a good half-hour to an hour with this one little obstacle is > enough to be fairly discouraging.
>
> On the bright side, I find the prospect of composing little thingies > that people on the tuning list will hear is highly motivating. I > haven't had a bunch of people to compose for in a while, and there > are lots of great ears here.
>
> caleb
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 19, 2008, at 3:28 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>
>> From my experience Logic should play back pitchbend values from >> midi files.
>>
>>
>> There are a number of disadvantages with using pitchbend.
>>
>> a) resolution only to nearest 64th of a semitone.
>> b) latency which may be hear as "pitch slides"
>> c) All notes on any channel will be pitchbent.
>> d) need to use unique channel of each simultaneous note.
>>
>> If you use Logic as intended, you can use 36 notes per octave if >> you do it in three stages.
>>
>> a) Set up three tuning tables having decided which note is to play >> which 36 notes.
>> b) Split your midi data into three regions
>> c) Convert each into an audio file with the appropriate tuning table.
>> d) Mix the audios to combine them
>>
>> Obviously like all systems Logic has its advantages and >> disadvantages.
>>
>> I agreed that Logic 8 could be more user-friendly and allow greater >> microtuning flexibility, so I am giving you the benefit of my >> experience and advice on the best work-arounds that I have found.
>>
>>
>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 20:00, caleb morgan wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> caleb wrote:
>>> thanks for the info, Charles. I may well work with tuning files.
>>>
>>> In general, I need a continuously variable tuning. I don't want >>> to be locked into anyone's tuning scheme. I need 36+ notes per >>> 2/1 available at all times.
>>>
>>> I'm willing to insert pitch-bend commands with each note, by >>> hand. Compared to composing, this is not too arduous.
>>>
>>> That way, I can at least start to make music without all this tech >>> getting in my way.
>>>
>>> **My question: The orchestral instruments don't seem to be pitch->>> bending!
>>>
>>> (This, if true, would be an example of Logic's sophistication >>> making life harder for unconventional users)
>>>
>>> (The first time I attempted to edit a pitch-bend, Logic hard->>> crashed. Not a promising beginning)
>>>
>>> Is this because some well-meaning programmer didn't think pitch->>> bend should work, or that pitch-bend would confuse consumers?
>>>
>>> Can I turn this no-pitch-bend feature off?
>>>
>>> this, so far, is example # 37 of Logic being hard to use...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 2:00 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just download the LucyTuning Logic files, decompress them and >>>> read the readme.txt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
>>>>
>>>> It will explain how to microtune your tracks.
>>>>
>>>> Once you understand how they work, you can modify them or make >>>> your own tuning files in .scl format which Logic can read and use.
>>>>
>>>> You have to think about the microtuning as + or - cent values >>>> from 12edo for each of the 12 notes, if you are editing them from >>>> within Logic.
>>>>
>>>> As far as finding the most "consonant" tuning; think like a >>>> musician rather than a mathematical robot which looks for >>>> proximity to integer ratios;-)
>>>>
>>>> Get Logic up and running then use your mouse and go:
>>>>
>>>> File/Project Settings/Tuning; you will see the window which tells >>>> you the +/- offsets from 12edo for each of the 12 edo notes.
>>>>
>>>> You can change the values and then save the "new" tuning files >>>> for later use.
>>>>
>>>> Read Chapter 40 of the Logic Manual page 944 onwards for the >>>> details, or search tuning in the Logic Help.
>>>>
>>>> There are lotsa videos on youtube to assist you - search on Logic >>>> too find them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 18:09, caleb morgan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks for good answer, much food for thought.
>>>>>
>>>>> --gaak! I've got to buy more stuff!
>>>>>
>>>>> --the other info sounds good
>>>>>
>>>>> --So far, I've seen some features of Logic that I can't use--12->>>>> note microtuning and some kind of automated re-tuning that >>>>> attempts to find the most consonant tuning for what you've >>>>> written--both strike me as almost useless, but I have to look >>>>> again.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --in general, higher-level features that lock you into some >>>>> system make life more difficult, not easier. I'd love to have a >>>>> plain vanilla sequencer that lets me work in Hertz, or cents.
>>>>>
>>>>> --I'm just suffering from feature overload with Logic Pro--I >>>>> can't get any sounds that I like with it, and it seems to have a >>>>> zillion features that I don't want.
>>>>>
>>>>> --What are the features/ways of working that Logic 7/Pro 8 have >>>>> introduced that make microtones easy?
>>>>>
>>>>> --thanks again
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The best way to make your samples is to use KeyMap by Redmatica.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Welcome_to_Redmatica.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> which will sort them out for you automatically including tuning >>>>>> to the nearest 12edo pitches.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It also enables you to do some very fancy looping, editing and >>>>>> other tweaking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The other alternative is to use the edit functions in EXS24, >>>>>> which is tedious, yet still possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can microtune to the nearest 1/10th of a cent using the >>>>>> microtuning capability for one set of twelve notes per octave.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For more notes per octave, bounce one set of pitches to an >>>>>> audio file, bounce the other (different/remaining) pitches, >>>>>> and mix the two audio tracks to cover all your chosen pitches.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More info. on Logic and microtuning EXS and samples for it can >>>>>> be found here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Microtuning with Logic has all become very easy nowadays since >>>>>> the introduction of Logic 7 and Pro 8.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 19 Nov 2008, at 16:45, caleb morgan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> caleb writes: I'm struggling to figure out how to use Logic >>>>>>> Pro. I want to use my own samples.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there a way to import a sample, trigger it from a midi >>>>>>> keyboard, and map it to selected keys, and tune them?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do I need a separate sampler plug-in?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Logic Pro seems designed with people different than me in >>>>>>> mind....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Messages in this topic (5)Reply (via web post) | Start a new >>>>>>>> topic
>>>>>>>> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | >>>>>>>> Members | Calendar
>>>>>>>> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email >>>>>>>> to one
>>>>>>>> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the >>>>>>>> list):
>>>>>>>> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
>>>>>>>> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
>>>>>>>> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
>>>>>>>> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily >>>>>>>> digests.
>>>>>>>> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send >>>>>>>> individual emails.
>>>>>>>> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help >>>>>>>> information.
>>>>>>>> MARKETPLACE
>>>>>>>> From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from >>>>>>>> Kraft Foods
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
>>>>>>>> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | >>>>>>>> Switch format to Traditional
>>>>>>>> Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
>>>>>>>> RECENT ACTIVITY
>>>>>>>> 2
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>>>>>>>> New Files
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>>>>>>>> Share Photos
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>>>>>>>> photos and
>>>>>>>> more online.
>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups
>>>>>>>> Latest product news
>>>>>>>> Join Mod. Central
>>>>>>>> stay connected.
>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups
>>>>>>>> Special K Challenge
>>>>>>>> Join others who
>>>>>>>> are losing pounds.
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Charles Lucy
>>>>>> lucy@...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>>>>>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>>>>>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Charles Lucy
>>>> lucy@...
>>>>
>>>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>>>
>>>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>>>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>>>
>>>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>>>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Charles Lucy
>> lucy@...
>>
>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>
>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>
>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Charles Lucy
lucy@...

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

🔗Charles Lucy <lucy@...>

I don't know, I haven't used pitchbend with Logic since Logic 6, and then it just worked, and could be edited with the event editor by adjusting the PBND commands.

This page shows the values that I used to use, which just worked in old Logic versions.

http://www.harmonics.com/lucy/lsd/pitchbend.html

On 19 Nov 2008, at 22:32, caleb morgan wrote:

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...>

thanks Kraig

My Report To My Benevolent Overlords Regarding My Progress Turning On Pitch-Bend So I Can Begin To Make "Beginner's Mess" Piece (Working Title: Also Sucked Zarathustra)

--It's still not working on most instruments!!

--This would be hilarious to me, but I'm too old to waste my time like this--what is this, the fifth time I've had to go through learning how to do basic stuff that I already knew how to do?

--Instrument Manual scanned--maybe I should look again

--I'm familiar with all the basic concepts through working with other synths, sequencers, etc.

--It works on: piano, Glock, etc.
--It doesn't work on: almost everything else.

--I put the two "EXS24" panels side by side--the piano, where pitch-bend is working side by side with violin 1, where it isn't.

--Parameters are exactly the same.

--Or, if they're not, no difference if I make them the same

--It must have something to do with matrix routing of effects, but damned if I know....

--The answer is there....somewhere....behind this button? behind this button? behind this button? behind this button? behind this button? behind this button? behind this button?

Caleb

On Nov 20, 2008, at 4:40 AM, Kraig Grady wrote:

> the es2, sculpture, and 24 sampler are the best tools. it has taken me
> years to make any progress with this software. all uphill but i am
> finally finding it useful. my friend brad just locked himself away > for 6
> months and he said he clicked on everything till he learned it all. > the
> vocoder works best as an mix bus or final modification.
> yes stuck with 12 ET or less or varied this is because they are german
> [e magic co] and can't let got of 12 ET one way or the other (even 72
> only because it contains it)
>
> i understand fractal smith tuning
> can break this barrier
> -->
> /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
> Mesotonal Music from:
> _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>
> _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
> Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://> anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>
>
> ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
>
>
>

🔗caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...>

I'm pretty sure there's a bug in the EXS24--with most of the Orchestral Template instruments, nothing I do makes pitch-bend work properly.

But, there's a simple workaround:

Just build the orchestra by bringing in instruments from the Library.

Tweak for +-1 pitch-bend, add some control over volume with the mod-wheel.

1/1.........3/2....................2/1......................................5/4...........7/6?!! (27/16? 19/16? 11/9? )

caleb

On Nov 20, 2008, at 8:38 AM, caleb morgan wrote:

>
> thanks Kraig
>
> My Report To My Benevolent Overlords Regarding My Progress Turning > On Pitch-Bend So I Can Begin To Make "Beginner's Mess" Piece > (Working Title: Also Sucked Zarathustra)
>
> --It's still not working on most instruments!!
>
> --This would be hilarious to me, but I'm too old to waste my time > like this--what is this, the fifth time I've had to go through > learning how to do basic stuff that I already knew how to do?
>
> --Instrument Manual scanned--maybe I should look again
>
> --I'm familiar with all the basic concepts through working with > other synths, sequencers, etc.
>
> --It works on: piano, Glock, etc.
> --It doesn't work on: almost everything else.
>
> --I put the two "EXS24" panels side by side--the piano, where pitch-> bend is working side by side with violin 1, where it isn't.
>
> --Parameters are exactly the same.
>
> --Or, if they're not, no difference if I make them the same
>
> --It must have something to do with matrix routing of effects, but > damned if I know....
>
>
> --The answer is there....somewhere....behind this button? behind > this button? behind this button? behind this button? behind this > button? behind this button? behind this button?
>
> Caleb
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 20, 2008, at 4:40 AM, Kraig Grady wrote:
>
>> the es2, sculpture, and 24 sampler are the best tools. it has taken >> me
>> years to make any progress with this software. all uphill but i am
>> finally finding it useful. my friend brad just locked himself away >> for 6
>> months and he said he clicked on everything till he learned it all. >> the
>> vocoder works best as an mix bus or final modification.
>> yes stuck with 12 ET or less or varied this is because they are >> german
>> [e magic co] and can't let got of 12 ET one way or the other (even 72
>> only because it contains it)
>>
>> i understand fractal smith tuning
>> can break this barrier
>> -->>
>> /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
>> Mesotonal Music from:
>> _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
>> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>>
>> _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
>> Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>> >
>>
>> ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
>>
>>
>
>
>

🔗caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...>

>
> 1
> /> 1> ........> 3> /> 2> ...................> 2/1.......................................5/4...........7/6?!! > (27/16? 19/16? 11/9? )
>
>

> how about 14/11 to 6/5?

> and, shouldn't that have been 32/27?
>
>
> On Nov 20, 2008, at 8:38 AM, caleb morgan wrote:
>
>>
>> thanks Kraig
>>
>> My Report To My Benevolent Overlords Regarding My Progress Turning >> On Pitch-Bend So I Can Begin To Make "Beginner's Mess" Piece >> (Working Title: Also Sucked Zarathustra)
>>
>> --It's still not working on most instruments!!
>>
>> --This would be hilarious to me, but I'm too old to waste my time >> like this--what is this, the fifth time I've had to go through >> learning how to do basic stuff that I already knew how to do?
>>
>> --Instrument Manual scanned--maybe I should look again
>>
>> --I'm familiar with all the basic concepts through working with >> other synths, sequencers, etc.
>>
>> --It works on: piano, Glock, etc.
>> --It doesn't work on: almost everything else.
>>
>> --I put the two "EXS24" panels side by side--the piano, where pitch->> bend is working side by side with violin 1, where it isn't.
>>
>> --Parameters are exactly the same.
>>
>> --Or, if they're not, no difference if I make them the same
>>
>> --It must have something to do with matrix routing of effects, but >> damned if I know....
>>
>>
>> --The answer is there....somewhere....behind this button? behind >> this button? behind this button? behind this button? behind this >> button? behind this button? behind this button?
>>
>> Caleb
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 20, 2008, at 4:40 AM, Kraig Grady wrote:
>>
>>> the es2, sculpture, and 24 sampler are the best tools. it has >>> taken me
>>> years to make any progress with this software. all uphill but i am
>>> finally finding it useful. my friend brad just locked himself away >>> for 6
>>> months and he said he clicked on everything till he learned it >>> all. the
>>> vocoder works best as an mix bus or final modification.
>>> yes stuck with 12 ET or less or varied this is because they are >>> german
>>> [e magic co] and can't let got of 12 ET one way or the other (even >>> 72
>>> only because it contains it)
>>>
>>> i understand fractal smith tuning
>>> can break this barrier
>>> -->>>
>>> /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
>>> Mesotonal Music from:
>>> _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
>>> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>>>
>>> _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
>>> Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>>> >
>>>
>>> ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

🔗caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...>

🔗Daniel Forro <dan.for@...>

Caleb,

I think the same. I tried Logic about ten years ago because I wanted to finish with Notator on Atari ST and switch to Mac. I gave up. Totally foggy to me, overloaded with functions, not intuitive work with it, etc.etc. Now I have a chance to start with it again, so I will check slowly. Don't frighten me - 1400 pages?!? Halloween is away...

Daniel Forro

On 22 Nov 2008, at 9:55 PM, caleb morgan wrote:

>
> Now that I have a little better understanding, I admit I was wrong > about the instruments given with Logic Pro.
>
> Once you can control them in a way that's comfortable for you, > they're not so bad, definitely better than a Proteus II.
>
> Wrong again, Caleb.
>
> My overall feelings about Logic Pro are the same--that it's much > harder to learn than it should be, because it's not all that logical.
>
> Form should follow function. Things should be transparent.
>
> Instead, Logic simply piles up all the questionable traditions--the > mixing board, the standard orchestral layout, the gee-whiz day-glo > gnarly box so beloved of adolescent stoners.
>
> 1,400 pages of manual. Which includes such important things as a > little dissertation on which rock bands used the Wurlitzer electric > piano. That is bloat.
>
>
>
>
>> Messages in this topic (27)Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic
>> Messages |&nb sp;Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | >> Members | Calendar
>> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
>> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
>> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
>> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
>> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
>> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
>> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual >> emails.
>> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>> MARKETPLACE
>> From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods
>>
>> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
>> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | >> Switch format to Traditional
>> Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
>> RECENT ACTIVITY
>> 2
>> New Members
>> 3
>> New Files
>> Visit Your Group
>> Biz Resources
>> Y! Small Business
>> Articles, tools,
>> forms, and more.
>> New business?
>> Get new customers.
>> List your web site
>> in Yahoo! Search.
>> Yahoo! Groups
>> Cats Group
>> Join a group for
>> cat owners like you
>> .
>
>
>
>

🔗caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...>

I lied, I'm sorry.

It's actually more like 1,600+ pages, not counting the various extras.

I think Logic will be ok, though I won't be using probably 90% of it.

I'm an old event-list kind o' guy---I don't want piano rolls, notation, anything but a bunch of numbers.

It seems like the event-list editor is a little clumsy, but time will tell.

One thing I learned today--When you load a new instrument into your "orchestra", you'd better turn off the reverb that comes with it!

Otherwise, it makes a new, independent reverb with each new instrument--and your cpu starts to get overloaded fast--and the audio starts to glitch.

But, I finished my basic "orchestra" today, and I can start to screw around, now. Valhalla, next stop!

-caleb

On Nov 22, 2008, at 8:09 AM, Daniel Forro wrote:

> Caleb,
>
> I think the same. I tried Logic about ten years ago because I wanted
> to finish with Notator on Atari ST and switch to Mac. I gave up.
> Totally foggy to me, overloaded with functions, not intuitive work
> with it, etc.etc. Now I have a chance to start with it again, so I
> will check slowly. Don't frighten me - 1400 pages?!? Halloween is
> away...
>
> Daniel Forro
>
> On 22 Nov 2008, at 9:55 PM, caleb morgan wrote:
>
> >
> > Now that I have a little better understanding, I admit I was wrong
> > about the instruments given with Logic Pro.
> >
> > Once you can control them in a way that's comfortable for you,
> > they're not so bad, definitely better than a Proteus II.
> >
> > Wrong again, Caleb.
> >
> > My overall feelings about Logic Pro are the same--that it's much
> > harder to learn than it should be, because it's not all that > logical.
> >
> > Form should follow function. Things should be transparent.
> >
> > Instead, Logic simply piles up all the questionable traditions--the
> > mixing board, the standard orchestral layout, the gee-whiz day-glo
> > gnarly box so beloved of adolescent stoners.
> >
> > 1,400 pages of manual. Which includes such important things as a
> > little dissertation on which rock bands used the Wurlitzer electric
> > piano. That is bloat.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Messages in this topic (27)Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic
> >> Messages |&nb sp;Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls |
> >> Members | Calendar
> >> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to > one
> >> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the > list):
> >> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> >> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
> >> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
> >> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
> >> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual
> >> emails.
> >> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
> >> MARKETPLACE
> >> From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft > Foods
> >>
> >> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
> >> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest |
> >> Switch format to Traditional
> >> Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
> >> RECENT ACTIVITY
> >> 2
> >> New Members
> >> 3
> >> New Files
> >> Visit Your Group
> >> Biz Resources
> >> Y! Small Business
> >> Articles, tools,
> >> forms, and more.
> >> New business?
> >> Get new customers.
> >> List your web site
> >> in Yahoo! Search.
> >> Yahoo! Groups
> >> Cats Group
> >> Join a group for
> >> cat owners like you
> >> .
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

Fwd: Connections between Chess and Music.

🔗robert thomas martin <robertthomasmartin@...>

🔗Daniel Forró <dan.for@...>

🔗robert thomas martin <robertthomasmartin@...>

🔗Herman Miller <hmiller@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

🔗daniel_anthony_stearns <daniel_anthony_stearns@...>

🔗Daniel Forro <dan.for@...>

🔗caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...>

🔗Charles Lucy <lucy@...>

🔗caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...>

🔗chrisvaisvil@...

🔗Charles Lucy <lucy@...>

🔗caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...>

🔗Charles Lucy <lucy@...>

🔗caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...>

🔗caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...>

🔗caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...>

🔗Charles Lucy <lucy@...>

🔗Charles Lucy <lucy@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...>

🔗caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...>

🔗caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...>

🔗caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...>

🔗Daniel Forro <dan.for@...>

🔗caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...>