Re: Where's all that hostility coming from?: what's the basic formula

I think the separation into stereo channels are an interesting and useful musical pursuit out side of consonance too.
But one application that strikes me is in using a structure such as the hexany,
where you have 6 tones that can be grouped into 4 different complementary triads.

As far as scales. They existed before harmony and in places that don't use it. Also scales have not been constructed out of chords, more the other way around. So the subject of consonance (if we consider it having some relationship to harmony) are two different subjects.
--

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

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---But one application that strikes me is in using a structure such as the

---hexany,where you have 6 tones that can be grouped into 4 different
---
complementary triads.
     Interesting...so you are talking about triads that can be inverted around each other in all possible permutations IE chord inversions?  For sure, short of a root note and perfect fifth or a root note and an octave, a triad is about as pure as you can get (more pure than the 4-note-per-octave chord I use in my scale for sure). 
     What do you think an idea example of a hexany mapped into 2 octaves (assuming something like 3 notes per channel per octave) be? 

    I will say this...I feel I have gotten close to "perfect" consonance in 7-note-per-octave binaural...so I think 6 would really put the icing on the cake so far as having something undoubtedly as or more consonant than Just Intonation.

-- As far as scales. They existed before harmony and in places that don't

-- use it. Also scales have not been constructed out of chords, more the

-- other way around. So the subject of consonance (if we consider it having

-- some relationship to harmony) are two different subjects.

    I realize that...actually the reason I keep on saying "one chord on each side of the scale per octave" is that I am having a lot of trouble trying to explain that a huge part in making bin-aural scales is to make each side of the spectrum consonant. 
   That and I am trying to keep within Carl's context of saying that harmonic scales are "built to promote chords". 
    It seemed Carl and everyone else got very confused when I mentioned scales and less so when I mentioned "one chord made from pure intervals on each side of the spectrum...and then manipulate slightly to prevent bin-aural beating"...that is why I keep using that terminology.

--- On Fri, 11/7/08, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> wrote:
From: Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>
Subject: [tuning] Re: Where's all that hostility coming from?: what's the basic formula
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 1:49 AM

I think the separation into stereo channels are an interesting and

useful musical pursuit out side of consonance too.

But one application that strikes me is in using a structure such as the

hexany,

where you have 6 tones that can be grouped into 4 different

complementary triads.

As far as scales. They existed before harmony and in places that don't

use it. Also scales have not been constructed out of chords, more the

other way around. So the subject of consonance (if we consider it having

some relationship to harmony) are two different subjects.

--

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_

Mesotonal Music from:

_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:

North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria. com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:

Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasou th.blogspot. com/>

',',',',',', ',',',',' ,',',',', ',',',',' ,',',',', ',',',',' ,

I appreciate your point of view on this Kraig, and realise that the concept of chords and harmony are very Western-centric.

Nevertheless musical "harmony" (usually 12edo) has now leaked into every crevasse, tropical jungle and mountain peak on the planet.

If we are to "retune" the planet and its population, any microtuning system needs to compete with 12edo which has a long and ubiquitous connection between scales and harmony.

You may believe that I am turning history on its head, yet from my experience, I have found that "turning the elephant inside out" to discover what it is and how it works can often give a novel perspective, which is what is happening in my scales analysis.

The database is providing a type of global harmonic vocabulary for composers, and exposing many alternative harmonic views which might otherwise have remained obscured.

http://www.lucytune.com/scales/

On 7 Nov 2008, at 09:49, Kraig Grady wrote:

> I think the separation into stereo channels are an interesting and
> useful musical pursuit out side of consonance too.
> But one application that strikes me is in using a structure such as > the
> hexany,
> where you have 6 tones that can be grouped into 4 different
> complementary triads.
>
> As far as scales. They existed before harmony and in places that don't
> use it. Also scales have not been constructed out of chords, more the
> other way around. So the subject of consonance (if we consider it > having
> some relationship to harmony) are two different subjects.
> -->
> /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
> Mesotonal Music from:
> _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>
> _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
> Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://> anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>
>
> ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
>
>
>
Charles Lucy
lucy@...

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

---I appreciate your point of view on this Kraig, and realise that the concept of chords and ---harmony are very Western-centric.I am confused...what's the inverse of this, then?
    When I say chord I am not meaning it must contain 1st,3rd,5th,suspended 4th, etc. ....but rather a series of notes that, when played together, sounds fairly consonant.
    In comparison to a scale...which my have many chords in it but also many combinations of notes which do not sound consonant together IE E,F,B,C.  I was trying to make a point that I am attempting to make a 7-note scale where it's impossible to make a combination of notes that is not also a "chord" in the sense of consonance.

-Michael

--- On Fri, 11/7/08, Charles Lucy <lucy@harmonics.com> wrote:
From: Charles Lucy <lucy@...>
Subject: [tuning] Scales and chords = chickens and eggs?
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 11:54 AM

I appreciate your point of view on this Kraig, and realise that the concept of chords and harmony are very Western-centric.
Nevertheless musical "harmony" (usually 12edo) has now leaked into every crevasse, tropical jungle and mountain peak on the planet.
If we are to "retune" the planet and its population, any microtuning system needs to compete with 12edo which has a long and ubiquitous connection between scales and harmony.
You may believe that I am turning history on its head, yet from my experience, I have found that "turning the elephant inside out" to discover what it is and how it works can often give a novel perspective, which is what is happening in my scales analysis.
The database is providing a type of global harmonic vocabulary for composers, and exposing many alternative harmonic views which might otherwise have remained obscured.
http://www.lucytune .com/scales/

On 7 Nov 2008, at 09:49, Kraig Grady wrote:
I think the separation into stereo channels are an interesting and 
useful musical pursuit out side of consonance too.
But one application that strikes me is in using a structure such as the 
hexany,
where you have 6 tones that can be grouped into 4 different 
complementary triads.

As far as scales. They existed before harmony and in places that don't 
use it. Also scales have not been constructed out of chords, more the 
other way around. So the subject of consonance (if we consider it having 
some relationship to harmony) are two different subjects.
-- 

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: 
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria. com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasou th.blogspot. com/>

',',',',',', ',',',',' ,',',',', ',',',',' ,',',',', ',',',',' ,

Charles Lucylucy@lucytune. com
- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
for information on LucyTuning go to:http://www.lucytune .com
For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:http://www.lullabie s.co.uk

The thing is Charles as the west has indoctrinated the world with it music and tuning, the west has also fallen apart harmonically and scale wise. Western music is basically only concerned with timbre and possibly tempo with harmony just a convenient way to approach it. All the effort is now put into productions. The 200 people working on a Britney Spears song ( i am not kidding) there would not be more than one thinking about the harmony. So while it is there it has become almost meaningless at best generic.
--

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> wrote:
>
> The thing is Charles as the west has indoctrinated the world with
> it music and tuning, the west has also fallen apart harmonically
> and scale wise. Western music is basically only concerned with
> timbre and possibly tempo with harmony just a convenient way to
> approach it. All the effort is now put into productions. The 200
> people working on a Britney Spears song (i am not kidding) there
> would not be more than one thinking about the harmony. So while
> it is there it has become almost meaningless at best generic.

This is a notable assessment. However, we are not bound to
follow Britney et al. Xenharmony can be the revival of harmony.

-Carl

This is a notable assessment. However, we are not bound to
follow Britney et al. Xenharmony can be the revival of harmony.

-Carl
--
I agree
The revival of the whole notion of pitch being important underlies this.
this focus is what makes the field still pretty taboo regardless whether people use microtones or not.

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

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