Comma pumps

Hi there,

anybody who could offer an understandable explanation why "comma pumps" are
called "pumps" or what they should have to do with a pump? I'm trying to
invent a Czech translation for the term and so far I'm unsuccessful.
Thanks in advance.

Petr

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Petr Paøízek <p.parizek@...> wrote:
>
> Hi there,
>
> anybody who could offer an understandable explanation why
> "comma pumps" are called "pumps" or what they should have
> to do with a pump? I'm trying to invent a Czech translation
> for the term and so far I'm unsuccessful.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Petr
>

They "pump" up (or down) the concert pitch by one comma every
time they go around.

-Carl

Carl Lumma schrieb:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Petr Paøízek <p.parizek@...> wrote:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> anybody who could offer an understandable explanation why
>> "comma pumps" are called "pumps" or what they should have
>> to do with a pump? I'm trying to invent a Czech translation
>> for the term and so far I'm unsuccessful.
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Petr
>>
> > They "pump" up (or down) the concert pitch by one comma every
> time they go around.
> > -Carl

But don't pumps pump steadily, independently of their "going around"? Bellows don't go around, but they infer that there is an incremental change, so maybe "mêch" (with the haĉek, of course) fits - but its German equivalent would imply the hides of an animal named comma.

klaus

Hey Petre,

why you don't ask your old teacher directly? You know I have created
a lot of new Czech terminology for electronic music and other...

You can't translate this literaIly. I would use "komaticke
vychylovani", "komaticke vibrato", "komaticka oscilace"...
Probably the first one is the best.

Ciao.

Daniel Forro

On 20 Oct 2008, at 7:24 AM, Petr Pařízek wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> anybody who could offer an understandable explanation why "comma
> pumps" are
> called "pumps" or what they should have to do with a pump? I'm
> trying to
> invent a Czech translation for the term and so far I'm unsuccessful.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Petr
>
>

Petr Pa��zek wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> anybody who could offer an understandable explanation why "comma pumps" are
> called "pumps" or what they should have to do with a pump? I'm trying to
> invent a Czech translation for the term and so far I'm unsuccessful.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Petr

Carl already explained this, but I've long called the phenomenon "comma drift" or something similar.

And sorry I couldn't help you on the Czech, but I am wondering about how you'd call it in French, among other languages. I guess _pompe de comma_, but I'm not sure you'd want a literal translation. ("Drift" would be _d�rive_.)

~D.

On Sun, 2008-10-19 at 19:15 -0500, Danny Wier wrote:

> Carl already explained this, but I've long called the phenomenon "comma
> drift" or something similar.

"Pitch drift" is the phenomenon whereby the music gets steadily higher
or lower. A "comma pump" is a chord progression that causes pitch drift
with perfect tuning.

Graham

Hi Klaus,

> Don't pumps pump steadily, independently of their "going
> around"?

Not the traditional kind:

http://www.edupic.net/Images/Science/oil_well_pumper009.JPG

-Carl

Hi Danny,

> Carl already explained this, but I've long called the phenomenon
> "comma drift" or something similar.

"Comma drift" refers to what happens as a result of the pump.
"Comma pump" refers to the progression that causes the drift.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <carl@...> wrote:
>
> > Don't pumps pump steadily, independently of their "going
> > around"?

Hi Carl & Klaus,

here some examples of Max Planck, as discussed in:

http://dspace.utlib.ee/dspace/bitstream/10062/5574/4/karltraugottgoldbach.pdf

Attend there Planck's score on p.5 in the PDF file:
"Nbs 5 Plancks Versuch zum syntonischen Komma"
tr:
Planck composed for demonstrating that a sequence of major triads:
They begin and end with C-major without any enharmonics inbetween.
In ET there is no deviation inbetween first and last chord.
But in JI the final C-major will be flattend down about 5 SCs down,
hence mor then a semitone flattend....

Facsimile reprint form Plancks original paper:
Schütz:
http://www.digizeitschriften.de/no_cache/home/jkdigitools/loader/?tx_jkDigiTools_pi1%5BIDDOC%5D=336265&tx_jkDigiTools_pi1%5Bpp%5D=446
About 5 syntonic-commata downwards:
http://www.digizeitschriften.de/no_cache/home/jkdigitools/loader/?tx_jkDigiTools_pi1%5BIDDOC%5D=336265&tx_jkDigiTools_pi1%5Bpp%5D=447
About 5 syntonic-commata upwards:
http://www.digizeitschriften.de/no_cache/home/jkdigitools/loader/?tx_jkDigiTools_pi1%5BIDDOC%5D=336265&tx_jkDigiTools_pi1%5Bpp%5D=449

bye
A.S.