I just deduced.....

To all my friends,

In the past I only tried to deduce the optimal musical scale that could be much better than the equal tempered scale and this purpose was already attained.
Two days ago I started another project that "was" too complex and thought that this time I wouldn´t get any result: "The acknowledgment of the unquestionable rules that govern the only dodecatonic scale". This o. d. s. will make that all the existing scales be replaced by this extraordinary system in a brief period of time; I do not see other way unless the musicians prefer to continue with the imperfection.
Occident is the area where the new musical system pertain and I am not talking about any of the Piagui scales I deduced by rigorous analysis. However, the long time I was engaged with the Piagui analysis made possible the attainment of the o. d. s. in only two days.
Those musicians or analysts that know how difficult is to get a scale whose twelve tone frequencies make as a maximum eight pure fifths (3/2 relation), will understand what I am talking about since the o. d. s. offers the maximum number of pure fifths, that is, eleven.
The authentic harmony is another of its features.
The good musicians will rest after they see that now there is no a clear reason to investigate any more on scales unless for educational purposes.
The new frequency components considerably differ from those frequently used on scales.
The basic information will be given once the needed steps are achieved.

Thanks

Mario Pizarro

Lima, September 15, 2008
piagui@...

I feel like a broken record.

1) There are an infinite number of dodecatonic scales
2) You are arbitrarily defining "perfection" and then assuming that
your arbitrary definition exists as gospel
3) Musicians like other intervals besides 3/2
4) You are arbitrarily defining "perfection" and then assuming that
your arbitrary definition exists as gospel
5) Unless your scale can handle 19-limit music, there's still a reason
to explore different scales
6) You are arbitrarily defining "perfection" and then assuming that
your arbitrary definition exists as gospel

-Mike

On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Mario Pizarro <piagui@...> wrote:
> To all my friends,
>
> In the past I only tried to deduce the optimal musical scale that could be
> much better than the equal tempered scale and this purpose was already
> attained.
> Two days ago I started another project that "was" too complex and thought
> that this time I wouldn´t get any result: "The acknowledgment of the
> unquestionable rules that govern the only dodecatonic scale". This o. d. s.
> will make that all the existing scales be replaced by this extraordinary
> system in a brief period of time; I do not see other way unless the
> musicians prefer to continue with the imperfection.
> Occident is the area where the new musical system pertain and I am not
> talking about any of the Piagui scales I deduced by rigorous analysis.
> However, the long time I was engaged with the Piagui analysis made possible
> the attainment of the o. d. s. in only two days.
> Those musicians or analysts that know how difficult is to get a scale whose
> twelve tone frequencies make as a maximum eight pure fifths (3/2 relation),
> will understand what I am talking about since the o. d. s. offers the
> maximum number of pure fifths, that is, eleven.
> The authentic harmony is another of its features.
> The good musicians will rest after they see that now there is no a
> clear reason to investigate any more on scales unless for educational
> purposes.
> The new frequency components considerably differ from those frequently used
> on scales.
> The basic information will be given once the needed steps are achieved.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mario Pizarro
>
> Lima, September 15, 2008
> piagui@ec-red.com
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Mario Pizarro" <piagui@...> wrote:
>
> To all my friends,
>
> In the past I only tried to deduce the optimal musical scale that
could be much better than the equal tempered scale and this purpose
was already attained.
> Two days ago I started another project that "was" too complex and
thought that this time I wouldn´t get any result: "The acknowledgment
of the unquestionable rules that govern the only dodecatonic scale".
This o. d. s. will make that all the existing scales be replaced by
this extraordinary system in a brief period of time; I do not see
other way unless the musicians prefer to continue with the
imperfection.
> Occident is the area where the new musical system pertain and I am
not talking about any of the Piagui scales I deduced by rigorous
analysis. However, the long time I was engaged with the Piagui
analysis made possible the attainment of the o. d. s. in only two
days.
> Those musicians or analysts that know how difficult is to get a
scale whose twelve tone frequencies make as a maximum eight pure
fifths (3/2 relation), will understand what I am talking about since
the o. d. s. offers the maximum number of pure fifths, that is,
eleven.
> The authentic harmony is another of its features.
> The good musicians will rest after they see that now there is no a
clear reason to investigate any more on scales unless for educational
purposes.
> The new frequency components considerably differ from those
frequently used on scales.
> The basic information will be given once the needed steps are
achieved.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mario Pizarro
>
> Lima, September 15, 2008
> piagui@...

Ahhh! Now what could be more refreshing than 11 pure fifths in a
dodecatonic scale? Surely if Pythagoras were alive today he would be
the first to congratulate you on this remarkable accomplishment!

--GS

> Ahhh! Now what could be more refreshing than 11 pure fifths in a
> dodecatonic scale? Surely if Pythagoras were alive today he would be
> the first to congratulate you on this remarkable accomplishment!
>
> --GS

:) -Carl

George,

Your words are what I needed this evening after a hard job I had today; thank you very much. From now and on our friendship will be protected by the art of music, perhaps I would better say by the music science.

Regards

Mario Pizarro

Lima, Per�
September 16, 2008
piagui@...

----- Original Message ----- From: "George D. Secor" <gdsecor@...>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:54 PM
Subject: [tuning] Re: I just deduced.....

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Mario Pizarro" <piagui@...> wrote:
>
> To all my friends,
>
> In the past I only tried to deduce the optimal musical scale that
could be much better than the equal tempered scale and this purpose
was already attained.
> Two days ago I started another project that "was" too complex and
thought that this time I wouldn�t get any result: "The acknowledgment
of the unquestionable rules that govern the only dodecatonic scale".
This o. d. s. will make that all the existing scales be replaced by
this extraordinary system in a brief period of time; I do not see
other way unless the musicians prefer to continue with the
imperfection.
> Occident is the area where the new musical system pertain and I am
not talking about any of the Piagui scales I deduced by rigorous
analysis. However, the long time I was engaged with the Piagui
analysis made possible the attainment of the o. d. s. in only two
days.
> Those musicians or analysts that know how difficult is to get a
scale whose twelve tone frequencies make as a maximum eight pure
fifths (3/2 relation), will understand what I am talking about since
the o. d. s. offers the maximum number of pure fifths, that is,
eleven.
> The authentic harmony is another of its features.
> The good musicians will rest after they see that now there is no a
clear reason to investigate any more on scales unless for educational
purposes.
> The new frequency components considerably differ from those
frequently used on scales.
> The basic information will be given once the needed steps are
achieved.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mario Pizarro
>
> Lima, September 15, 2008
> piagui@...

Ahhh! Now what could be more refreshing than 11 pure fifths in a
dodecatonic scale? Surely if Pythagoras were alive today he would be
the first to congratulate you on this remarkable accomplishment!

--GS

------------------------------------

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Yahoo! Groups Links

> Ahhh! Now what could be more refreshing than 11 pure fifths in a
> dodecatonic scale? Surely if Pythagoras were alive today he would be
> the first to congratulate you on this remarkable accomplishment!

I'm wondering where the wolf 5th goes, with its full Pythagorean comma.

Neidhardt in his 1732 example
http://harpsichords.pbwiki.com/f/Neidhardt_1732_ascii.html
put it at C-G.

Marpurg in his "L" temperament of 1776 (see Barbour's 1948 article) put it at C-F.

It's awful either way in practice, at least on harpsichords.

Brad Lehman

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Mario Pizarro" <piagui@...> wrote:
>
> George,
>
> Your words are what I needed this evening after a hard job I had
today;
> thank you very much. From now and on our friendship will be
protected by the
> art of music, perhaps I would better say by the music science.
>
> Regards
>
> Mario Pizarro
>
> Lima, Perú
> September 16, 2008
> piagui@...

:) --GS

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George D. Secor" <gdsecor@...>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:54 PM
> Subject: [tuning] Re: I just deduced.....
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Mario Pizarro" <piagui@> wrote:
> >
> > To all my friends,
> >
> > In the past I only tried to deduce the optimal musical scale that
> could be much better than the equal tempered scale and this purpose
> was already attained.
> > Two days ago I started another project that "was" too complex and
> thought that this time I wouldn´t get any result: "The
acknowledgment
> of the unquestionable rules that govern the only dodecatonic scale".
> This o. d. s. will make that all the existing scales be replaced by
> this extraordinary system in a brief period of time; I do not see
> other way unless the musicians prefer to continue with the
> imperfection.
> > Occident is the area where the new musical system pertain and I am
> not talking about any of the Piagui scales I deduced by rigorous
> analysis. However, the long time I was engaged with the Piagui
> analysis made possible the attainment of the o. d. s. in only two
> days.
> > Those musicians or analysts that know how difficult is to get a
> scale whose twelve tone frequencies make as a maximum eight pure
> fifths (3/2 relation), will understand what I am talking about since
> the o. d. s. offers the maximum number of pure fifths, that is,
> eleven.
> > The authentic harmony is another of its features.
> > The good musicians will rest after they see that now there is no a
> clear reason to investigate any more on scales unless for
educational
> purposes.
> > The new frequency components considerably differ from those
> frequently used on scales.
> > The basic information will be given once the needed steps are
> achieved.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Mario Pizarro
> >
> > Lima, September 15, 2008
> > piagui@
>
> Ahhh! Now what could be more refreshing than 11 pure fifths in a
> dodecatonic scale? Surely if Pythagoras were alive today he would
be
> the first to congratulate you on this remarkable accomplishment!
>
> --GS
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual
emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

George,
 
You're older than I am.   Don't you think ridicule is a bit too rough of a trip to lay onto a fellow tuning lister who's already struggling with the language barrier?  I know the subject was numbers and not a foreign language this time, but how do you feel now that your joke went right over the intended recipient's head?
 
Mark Rankin
 

--- On Wed, 9/17/08, George D. Secor <gdsecor@...> wrote:

From: George D. Secor <gdsecor@...>
Subject: [tuning] Re: I just deduced.....
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 8:20 AM

--- In tuning@yahoogroups. com, "Mario Pizarro" <piagui@...> wrote:
>
> George,
>
> Your words are what I needed this evening after a hard job I had
today;
> thank you very much. From now and on our friendship will be
protected by the
> art of music, perhaps I would better say by the music science.
>
> Regards
>
> Mario Pizarro
>
> Lima, Perú
> September 16, 2008
> piagui@...

:) --GS

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George D. Secor" <gdsecor@... >
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups. com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:54 PM
> Subject: [tuning] Re: I just deduced.....
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups. com, "Mario Pizarro" <piagui@> wrote:
> >
> > To all my friends,
> >
> > In the past I only tried to deduce the optimal musical scale that
> could be much better than the equal tempered scale and this purpose
> was already attained.
> > Two days ago I started another project that "was" too complex and
> thought that this time I wouldn´t get any result: "The
acknowledgment
> of the unquestionable rules that govern the only dodecatonic scale".
> This o. d. s. will make that all the existing scales be replaced by
> this extraordinary system in a brief period of time; I do not see
> other way unless the musicians prefer to continue with the
> imperfection.
> > Occident is the area where the new musical system pertain and I am
> not talking about any of the Piagui scales I deduced by rigorous
> analysis. However, the long time I was engaged with the Piagui
> analysis made possible the attainment of the o. d. s. in only two
> days.
> > Those musicians or analysts that know how difficult is to get a
> scale whose twelve tone frequencies make as a maximum eight pure
> fifths (3/2 relation), will understand what I am talking about since
> the o. d. s. offers the maximum number of pure fifths, that is,
> eleven.
> > The authentic harmony is another of its features.
> > The good musicians will rest after they see that now there is no a
> clear reason to investigate any more on scales unless for
educational
> purposes.
> > The new frequency components considerably differ from those
> frequently used on scales.
> > The basic information will be given once the needed steps are
> achieved.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Mario Pizarro
> >
> > Lima, September 15, 2008
> > piagui@
>
> Ahhh! Now what could be more refreshing than 11 pure fifths in a
> dodecatonic scale? Surely if Pythagoras were alive today he would
be
> the first to congratulate you on this remarkable accomplishment!
>
> --GS
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
> tuning-subscribe@ yahoogroups. com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. com - leave the group.
> tuning-nomail@ yahoogroups. com - turn off mail from the group.
> tuning-digest@ yahoogroups. com - set group to send daily digests.
> tuning-normal@ yahoogroups. com - set group to send individual
emails.
> tuning-help@ yahoogroups. com - receive general help information.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

I'm in my own doghouse until I deal with my last post and all the
responses, but I just wanted to chime in:

He's Don Quixote. It's rather sweet, in a way. Some who are
impervious to doubt accomplish great things. Others, not.

On Sep 17, 2008, at 12:06 PM, Mark Rankin wrote:

>
> George,
>
> You're older than I am. Don't you think ridicule is a bit too
> rough of a trip to lay onto a fellow tuning lister who's already
> struggling with the language barrier? I know the subject was
> numbers and not a foreign language this time, but how do you feel
> now that your joke went right over the intended recipient's head?
>
> Mark Rankin
>
>
> --- On Wed, 9/17/08, George D. Secor <gdsecor@...> wrote:
> From: George D. Secor <gdsecor@...>
> Subject: [tuning] Re: I just deduced.....
> To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 8:20 AM
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups. com, "Mario Pizarro" <piagui@...> wrote:
> >
> > George,
> >
> > Your words are what I needed this evening after a hard job I had
> today;
> > thank you very much. From now and on our friendship will be
> protected by the
> > art of music, perhaps I would better say by the music science.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Mario Pizarro
> >
> > Lima, Perú
> > September 16, 2008
> > piagui@...
>
> :) --GS
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "George D. Secor" <gdsecor@... >
> > To: <tuning@yahoogroups. com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:54 PM
> > Subject: [tuning] Re: I just deduced.....
> >
> >
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups. com, "Mario Pizarro" <piagui@> wrote:
> > >
> > > To all my friends,
> > >
> > > In the past I only tried to deduce the optimal musical scale that
> > could be much better than the equal tempered scale and this purpose
> > was already attained.
> > > Two days ago I started another project that "was" too complex and
> > thought that this time I wouldn´t get any result: "The
> acknowledgment
> > of the unquestionable rules that govern the only dodecatonic scale".
> > This o. d. s. will make that all the existing scales be replaced by
> > this extraordinary system in a brief period of time; I do not see
> > other way unless the musicians prefer to continue with the
> > imperfection.
> > > Occident is the area where the new musical system pertain and I am
> > not talking about any of the Piagui scales I deduced by rigorous
> > analysis. However, the long time I was engaged with the Piagui
> > analysis made possible the attainment of the o. d. s. in only two
> > days.
> > > Those musicians or analysts that know how difficult is to get a
> > scale whose twelve tone frequencies make as a maximum eight pure
> > fifths (3/2 relation), will understand what I am talking about since
> > the o. d. s. offers the maximum number of pure fifths, that is,
> > eleven.
> > > The authentic harmony is another of its features.
> > > The good musicians will rest after they see that now there is no a
> > clear reason to investigate any more on scales unless for
> educational
> > purposes.
> > > The new frequency components considerably differ from those
> > frequently used on scales.
> > > The basic information will be given once the needed steps are
> > achieved.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Mario Pizarro
> > >
> > > Lima, September 15, 2008
> > > piagui@
> >
> > Ahhh! Now what could be more refreshing than 11 pure fifths in a
> > dodecatonic scale? Surely if Pythagoras were alive today he would
> be
> > the first to congratulate you on this remarkable accomplishment!
> >
> > --GS
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> >
> > You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
> > of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
> > tuning-subscribe@ yahoogroups. com - join the tuning group.
> > tuning-unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. com - leave the group.
> > tuning-nomail@ yahoogroups. com - turn off mail from the group.
> > tuning-digest@ yahoogroups. com - set group to send daily digests.
> > tuning-normal@ yahoogroups. com - set group to send individual
> emails.
> > tuning-help@ yahoogroups. com - receive general help information.
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
>
>
>
>

On Sep 17, 2008, at 5:06 PM, Mark Rankin wrote:
> George,
>
> You're older than I am. Don't you think ridicule is a bit too
> rough of a trip to lay onto a fellow tuning lister who's already
> struggling with the language barrier? I know the subject was
> numbers and not a foreign language this time, but how do you feel
> now that your joke went right over the intended recipient's head?
>
> Mark Rankin

I don't feel language is the problem here. The joke went completely
unnoticed by Mario, because he is obviously not aware of previous
work in the field.

On the other hand, perhaps he is actually jesting himself on purpose,
and is just very good in his disguise. I mean, suggesting that a 12-
tone tuning with 11 pure fifths "will make that all the existing
scales be replaced by this extraordinary system in a brief period of
time"...

Best
Torsten

>
> --- On Wed, 9/17/08, George D. Secor <gdsecor@...> wrote:
> From: George D. Secor <gdsecor@...>
> Subject: [tuning] Re: I just deduced.....
> To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 8:20 AM
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups. com, "Mario Pizarro" <piagui@...> wrote:
> >
> > George,
> >
> > Your words are what I needed this evening after a hard job I had
> today;
> > thank you very much. From now and on our friendship will be
> protected by the
> > art of music, perhaps I would better say by the music science.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Mario Pizarro
> >
> > Lima, Perú
> > September 16, 2008
> > piagui@...
>
> :) --GS
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "George D. Secor" <gdsecor@... >
> > To: <tuning@yahoogroups. com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:54 PM
> > Subject: [tuning] Re: I just deduced.....
> >
> >
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups. com, "Mario Pizarro" <piagui@> wrote:
> > >
> > > To all my friends,
> > >
> > > In the past I only tried to deduce the optimal musical scale that
> > could be much better than the equal tempered scale and this purpose
> > was already attained.
> > > Two days ago I started another project that "was" too complex and
> > thought that this time I wouldn´t get any result: "The
> acknowledgment
> > of the unquestionable rules that govern the only dodecatonic scale".
> > This o. d. s. will make that all the existing scales be replaced by
> > this extraordinary system in a brief period of time; I do not see
> > other way unless the musicians prefer to continue with the
> > imperfection.
> > > Occident is the area where the new musical system pertain and I am
> > not talking about any of the Piagui scales I deduced by rigorous
> > analysis. However, the long time I was engaged with the Piagui
> > analysis made possible the attainment of the o. d. s. in only two
> > days.
> > > Those musicians or analysts that know how difficult is to get a
> > scale whose twelve tone frequencies make as a maximum eight pure
> > fifths (3/2 relation), will understand what I am talking about since
> > the o. d. s. offers the maximum number of pure fifths, that is,
> > eleven.
> > > The authentic harmony is another of its features.
> > > The good musicians will rest after they see that now there is no a
> > clear reason to investigate any more on scales unless for
> educational
> > purposes.
> > > The new frequency components considerably differ from those
> > frequently used on scales.
> > > The basic information will be given once the needed steps are
> > achieved.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Mario Pizarro
> > >
> > > Lima, September 15, 2008
> > > piagui@
> >
> > Ahhh! Now what could be more refreshing than 11 pure fifths in a
> > dodecatonic scale? Surely if Pythagoras were alive today he would
> be
> > the first to congratulate you on this remarkable accomplishment!
> >
> > --GS
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> >
> > You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
> > of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
> > tuning-subscribe@ yahoogroups. com - join the tuning group.
> > tuning-unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. com - leave the group.
> > tuning-nomail@ yahoogroups. com - turn off mail from the group.
> > tuning-digest@ yahoogroups. com - set group to send daily digests.
> > tuning-normal@ yahoogroups. com - set group to send individual
> emails.
> > tuning-help@ yahoogroups. com - receive general help information.
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
>
>
>
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mark Rankin <markrankin95511@...> wrote:
>
> George,
>  
> You're older than I am.   Don't you think ridicule is a bit
> too rough of a trip to lay onto a fellow tuning lister who's
> already struggling with the language barrier?  I know the
> subject was numbers and not a foreign language this time, but
> how do you feel now that your joke went right over the intended
> recipient's head?
>  
> Mark Rankin

Hi Mark,

I think the problem here goes a bit beyond the language
barrier. If you've followed any of Mario's threads, they
could certainly stand a good-natured ribbing. Even if
Mario didn't get it (he didn't get Mike's repeated gentle
explanations either), other readers might find George's
remark helpful. People new to the tuning field are often
confronted with many sensational claims. I remember when
I was new to the subject, it was hard to sort it all out.
I benefited a lot from people on this list who were not
afraid to call B.S. on some of the self-promoted tuning
"discoveries" being peddled here.

-Carl

Agreed!

The use of irony seems to be lost on many of the tunaniks, particularly those new to the list.

I'm not sure whether this is due to cultural deprivations, lack of humour, language or sense of fun;-)

Thanks for the Harrison/Hawking clock link John; it might otherwise have timely slipped past my radar.

On 17 Sep 2008, at 19:13, Carl Lumma wrote:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mark Rankin <markrankin95511@...> > wrote:
> >
> > George,
> >
> > You're older than I am. Don't you think ridicule is a bit
> > too rough of a trip to lay onto a fellow tuning lister who's
> > already struggling with the language barrier? I know the
> > subject was numbers and not a foreign language this time, but
> > how do you feel now that your joke went right over the intended
> > recipient's head?
> >
> > Mark Rankin
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> I think the problem here goes a bit beyond the language
> barrier. If you've followed any of Mario's threads, they
> could certainly stand a good-natured ribbing. Even if
> Mario didn't get it (he didn't get Mike's repeated gentle
> explanations either), other readers might find George's
> remark helpful. People new to the tuning field are often
> confronted with many sensational claims. I remember when
> I was new to the subject, it was hard to sort it all out.
> I benefited a lot from people on this list who were not
> afraid to call B.S. on some of the self-promoted tuning
> "discoveries" being peddled here.
>
> -Carl
>
>
>
Charles Lucy
lucy@...

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mark Rankin <markrankin95511@...>
wrote:
>
> George,
>  
> You're older than I am.   Don't you think ridicule is a bit too
rough of a trip to lay onto a fellow tuning lister who's already
struggling with the language barrier?  I know the subject was
numbers and not a foreign language this time, but how do you feel now
that your joke went right over the intended recipient's head?
>  
> Mark Rankin

Mark,

I feel that my response was not inappropriate in the sense that it
was no more ridiculous than the claims made in the original message.

In the event that we do not really understand exactly what Mario is
advocating (e.g., might this be a tuning that does not repeat at the
octave?), then perhaps lavish praise may be justified after all (in
which case the joke may be on us).

But let's not take ourselves so seriously that we cannot afford a
little comic relief from time to time.

Best,

--George

The irony of you responding isn't lost on me. :):)

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Charles Lucy <lucy@...> wrote:
>
> Agreed!
>
> The use of irony seems to be lost on many of the tunaniks,
> particularly those new to the list.
//
> > Hi Mark,
> >
> > I think the problem here goes a bit beyond the language
> > barrier. If you've followed any of Mario's threads, they
> > could certainly stand a good-natured ribbing. Even if
> > Mario didn't get it (he didn't get Mike's repeated gentle
> > explanations either), other readers might find George's
> > remark helpful. People new to the tuning field are often
> > confronted with many sensational claims. I remember when
> > I was new to the subject, it was hard to sort it all out.
> > I benefited a lot from people on this list who were not
> > afraid to call B.S. on some of the self-promoted tuning
> > "discoveries" being peddled here.
> >
> > -Carl
> >

Brad Lehman wrote:
>> Ahhh! Now what could be more refreshing than 11 pure fifths in a
>> dodecatonic scale? Surely if Pythagoras were alive today he would be
>> the first to congratulate you on this remarkable accomplishment!
> > I'm wondering where the wolf 5th goes, with its full Pythagorean comma.
> > Neidhardt in his 1732 example
> http://harpsichords.pbwiki.com/f/Neidhardt_1732_ascii.html
> put it at C-G.
> > Marpurg in his "L" temperament of 1776 (see Barbour's 1948 article) put > it at C-F.
> > It's awful either way in practice, at least on harpsichords.
> > > Brad Lehman

How about putting the wolf between A and E? That way E and B are a comma lower, C-E and G-B being close to 5:4. Just avoid keys where the A-E needs to be a consonance.

Scala has these scales:

pyth12.scl "12-tone Pythagorean scale"
(wolf fifth from Ab-Eb: near-just thirds are B-D# and F#-A#)

ling-lun.scl "Scale of Ling Lun from C", and ...
chin_lu2.scl "Chinese L� (Lushi chunqiu, by Lu Buwei). Mingyue: Music of the billion, p.67"
(both with the wolf fifth from F-C, and good thirds at Eb-G and Ab-C)

zwolle.scl "Henri Arnaut De Zwolle. Pythagorean on G flat."
(wolf fifth from B-F#: near-just thirds are D-F# and A-C#)

> How about putting the wolf between A and E? That way E and B are a comma
> lower, C-E and G-B being close to 5:4. Just avoid keys where the A-E
> needs to be a consonance.
>
> Scala has these scales:
>
> pyth12.scl "12-tone Pythagorean scale"
> (wolf fifth from Ab-Eb: near-just thirds are B-D# and F#-A#)

Then the vi chord of C major is out, and that's a pretty solidly
important chord to have.

-Mike

Mike,
I never used the wolf fifth. I think it has about 738 cents, 36 cents sharper than a pure fifth. Right?.
However, I already have an ordained page explaining the fundamentals of the P. F. S. P. and the 88 key tone frequencies (Perfect Fifths Piano Scale).
What about you do this job, I have no any blank line at the bottom of this page.
It will be at your hands in a matter of hours. Today I did not received any message so I still have two requests. Only need three more ---- �Holidays).

Regards
Mario
September 18
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Battaglia" <battaglia01@...>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:47 AM
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: I just deduced.....

>> How about putting the wolf between A and E? That way E and B are a comma
>> lower, C-E and G-B being close to 5:4. Just avoid keys where the A-E
>> needs to be a consonance.
>>
>> Scala has these scales:
>>
>> pyth12.scl "12-tone Pythagorean scale"
>> (wolf fifth from Ab-Eb: near-just thirds are B-D# and F#-A#)
>
> Then the vi chord of C major is out, and that's a pretty solidly
> important chord to have.
>
> -Mike
>
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>
>
>

George,
 
I'll buy that.
 
- Mark

--- On Wed, 9/17/08, George D. Secor <gdsecor@...> wrote:

From: George D. Secor <gdsecor@...>
Subject: [tuning] Re: I just deduced.....
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 2:44 PM

--- In tuning@yahoogroups. com, Mark Rankin <markrankin95511@ ...>
wrote:
>
> George,
>  
> You're older than I am.   Don't you think ridicule is a bit too
rough of a trip to lay onto a fellow tuning lister who's already
struggling with the language barrier?  I know the subject was
numbers and not a foreign language this time, but how do you feel now
that your joke went right over the intended recipient's head?
>  
> Mark Rankin

Mark,

I feel that my response was not inappropriate in the sense that it
was no more ridiculous than the claims made in the original message.

In the event that we do not really understand exactly what Mario is
advocating (e.g., might this be a tuning that does not repeat at the
octave?), then perhaps lavish praise may be justified after all (in
which case the joke may be on us).

But let's not take ourselves so seriously that we cannot afford a
little comic relief from time to time.

Best,

--George

Mike Battaglia wrote:
>> How about putting the wolf between A and E? That way E and B are a comma
>> lower, C-E and G-B being close to 5:4. Just avoid keys where the A-E
>> needs to be a consonance.
>>
>> Scala has these scales:
>>
>> pyth12.scl "12-tone Pythagorean scale"
>> (wolf fifth from Ab-Eb: near-just thirds are B-D# and F#-A#)
> > Then the vi chord of C major is out, and that's a pretty solidly
> important chord to have.

Something's got to give if you want C major to be near just, and the only alternatives are to put the 678.5-cent wolf between G and D, or between D and A. Not as bad as the meantone 737.6-cent wolf, but there's not really a good place to get it "out of the way" like in meantone.

Of course a more typical way to use a Pythagorean chain of fifths would be a neo-medieval style with thirds as dissonances.