Re: Slapping Conrad

David Beadsley wrote,

>Conrad seems more interested in anarchy and noise than JI.
>Sometimes (if not all the time!) when he performs, he runs
>his instrument through effect boxes like distortion and
>a ring modulator and it obscures the JI intent.
>Maybe even his bowing technique is nasty too! Very harsh,
>this creates overtones that obscures the tuning.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting you, but I find that statement completely
absurd. Most "harsh" bowing techniques, including what I hear on
"Slapping Pythagoras", create harmonic overtones that clarify, rather
than obscure, the tuning. The fewer harmonic overtones, the more obscure
the tuning, and with sine waves (i.e., no overtones at all) there is
virtually no difference in consonance between JI and, say, 12-tET(unless
you're talking about loud otonalities, where difference tones will
create prominent beating if JI is not adhered to). Melodic intervals are
also obscured by lack of overtones -- with sine waves melodic octaves
don't even sound like octaves (try it -- most subjects judged 1210-cent
octaves to be most "in tune" when sine waves were used. Sethares has
provided great demonstrations of how much our judgment of "in tune
octaves" can be warped one way or the other by using slightly inharmonic
overtones, and the experience of piano tuners corroborates this).
Distortion also intensifies the positive effect of JI on otonalities by
creating overtones and combination tones -- Jon Catler's music is a
perfect example of this, and the unique effect of his higher-limit
otonalities would be considerably weakened without distortion.

I personally can tell within about 2hz if something is out of tune
,Sine,12tet or JI
What I think D Beardsley was getting at is that Conrad is intentionally
causing beating to "Slap Pythagoras"
towards a more democratic heterophony. And distortion (a stomp box maybe)
does enhance some overtones but stuff like delay or reverb tends to blend
things into each other obscuring the purity.
I am not going to comment on the 12tet/JI consonance statement because I am
unsure of your true point or subjects of test.
Pat

"Paul H. Erlich" wrote:

> From: "Paul H. Erlich" <PErlich@Acadian-Asset.com>
>
> David Beadsley wrote,
>
> >Conrad seems more interested in anarchy and noise than JI.
> >Sometimes (if not all the time!) when he performs, he runs
> >his instrument through effect boxes like distortion and
> >a ring modulator and it obscures the JI intent.
> >Maybe even his bowing technique is nasty too! Very harsh,
> >this creates overtones that obscures the tuning.
>
> Maybe I'm misinterpreting you, but I find that statement completely
> absurd. Most "harsh" bowing techniques, including what I hear on
> "Slapping Pythagoras", create harmonic overtones that clarify, rather
> than obscure, the tuning. The fewer harmonic overtones, the more obscure
> the tuning, and with sine waves (i.e., no overtones at all) there is
> virtually no difference in consonance between JI and, say, 12-tET(unless
> you're talking about loud otonalities, where difference tones will
> create prominent beating if JI is not adhered to). Melodic intervals are
> also obscured by lack of overtones -- with sine waves melodic octaves
> don't even sound like octaves (try it -- most subjects judged 1210-cent
> octaves to be most "in tune" when sine waves were used. Sethares has
> provided great demonstrations of how much our judgment of "in tune
> octaves" can be warped one way or the other by using slightly inharmonic
> overtones, and the experience of piano tuners corroborates this).
> Distortion also intensifies the positive effect of JI on otonalities by
> creating overtones and combination tones -- Jon Catler's music is a
> perfect example of this, and the unique effect of his higher-limit
> otonalities would be considerably weakened without distortion.
>
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