Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Theory of gaps in rhythm and tonality

Assume a scale starts or note a and ends on upper case A IE

A,F,J,M, O,T,X, a,c, octave (just after h)

This is a 9-note scale in approximately 32TET.
Note the gaps between the notes are

4 between A and F (B,C,D, and E)
3 between F and J (G,H,I)............
   And so on....
   The whole pattern of notes between notes in the scale seems to coast in and out.
It goes 4,3,2,1,4,3,2,1,4(octave).
--------------------------
   Now try playing a drum with the same proportion of gaps in between each hit (instead
of a flat beat). Note how it sounds more interesting than 4/4,
and just as "full". Try
making multiple drum-lines with this pattern that play in each other's gaps and it gets
more interesting and complex yet not much harder at all to digest.
----------------------------------------------------------------

I've heard of one theory (forget the precise source) that says the mind is attracted to music based on how little effort it takes (IE consistent patterns in functions that can summarize the rhythm/tuning) per complexity of the music IE complexity/predictability.

And this seems to hold true in making both 9 note scales and poly-rhythms.

Is this just coincidence or...any thoughts?

--- On Tue, 6/3/08, Carl Lumma <carl@...> wrote:
From: Carl Lumma <carl@...>
Subject:
[tuning] Re: re;re for Tom
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 3, 2008, 11:06 AM

Hans:

> > > For every irrational number, there is an infinite amount

> > > of rational numbers arbitrary close to it,

Me:

> > There isn't even a single rational for every irrational

> > number -- how could there be an infinity of them?

Kalle:

> "for every irrational number there is an infinite amount of

> rational numbers arbitrary close to it" just means that

> for every irrational number r and for every positive real

> number e > 0 there exists a rational number q so

> that |r - q| < e. This is true!

What Hans said would be true if he'd said "for any" instead

of "for every". But what you say here isn't true even then.

You can get arbitrarily close but you can't get closer as

many times as there are reals closer.

-Carl

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

various people have proposed applying Viggo Bruns algorithm to rhythm. David canwright did som work with fibonacci series which i took into the direction of Wilson's Horograms, which can be seen here
http://anaphoria.com/hora.PDF (done before one had photoshop)
but your sequence is different resembling additive patterns common to Indian music

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

Michael Sheiman wrote:
>
>
> Assume a scale starts or note a and ends on upper case A IE
>
> A,F,J,M, O,T,X, a,c, octave (just after h)
>
> This is a 9-note scale in approximately 32TET.
> Note the gaps between the notes are
> > 4 between A and F (B,C,D, and E)
> 3 between F and J (G,H,I)............
> And so on....
> The whole pattern of notes between notes in the scale seems to > coast in and out.
> It goes 4,3,2,1,4,3,2,1,4(octave).
> --------------------------
> Now try playing a drum with the same proportion of gaps in between > each hit (instead
> of a flat beat). Note how it sounds more interesting than 4/4, and > just as "full". Try
> making multiple drum-lines with this pattern that play in each other's > gaps and it gets
> more interesting and complex yet not much harder at all to digest.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I've heard of one theory (forget the precise source) that says the > mind is attracted to music based on how little effort it takes (IE > consistent patterns in functions that can summarize the rhythm/tuning) > per complexity of the music IE complexity/predictability.
> > And this seems to hold true in making both 9 note scales and > poly-rhythms.
>
> Is this just coincidence or...any thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On *Tue, 6/3/08, Carl Lumma /<carl@...>/* wrote:
>
> From: Carl Lumma <carl@...>
> Subject: [tuning] Re: re;re for Tom
> To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, June 3, 2008, 11:06 AM
>
> Hans:
> > > > For every irrational number, there is an infinite amount
> > > > of rational numbers arbitrary close to it,
>
> Me:
> > > There isn't even a single rational for every irrational
> > > number -- how could there be an infinity of them?
>
> Kalle:
> > "for every irrational number there is an infinite amount of
> > rational numbers arbitrary close to it" just means that
> >
> > for every irrational number r and for every positive real
> > number e > 0 there exists a rational number q so
> > that |r - q| < e. This is true!
>
> What Hans said would be true if he'd said "for any" instead
> of "for every". But what you say here isn't true even then.
> You can get arbitrarily close but you can't get closer as
> many times as there are reals closer.
>
> -Carl
>
>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

various people have proposed applying Viggo Bruns algorithm to rhythm. David canwright did some work with applications to the fibonacci series which i took into the direction of Wilson's Horograms, which can be seen here
http://anaphoria.com/hora.PDF (done before one had photoshop)
but your sequence is different, resembling additive patterns common to Indian music. i am not so sure it works as well as a pitch scale.

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

🔗Charles Lucy <lucy@...>

Interesting Kraig;

re: infinite series; The series that I am using from pi (i.e. Large and small intervals) has characteristics which it also seems to share with the Kornerup tuning in that each step of fourths or fifths arrives at a new and unique position between ratio 1 and 2 when octaved, and eventually will arrive at every possible ratio if continued. (to infinity + 1 steps ;-)?

I once tried applying the same pattern to midi "locations" for rhythm using multiples of 123 (small) and 191 (Large) midi clicks, yet to my mind without "artistic success"; maybe you have inspired me to experiment further with this way of manipulating timing.

Has anyone else been further exploring the tuning and tempo connections recently?:

see:

http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/tempo.html

Last weekend we had access to an E.E.G. (mind machine) which we have been playing with using various musicians.

I quickly discovered that we have a lot to learn about how to interpret the results, which were very different for diverse players.

Hopefully the "experts" will be getting back to us with more info.

Here is one example some of 12 edo keyboard playing that we filmed:

reading score and improvising.

http://www.deflorence.com/spip.php?article55

Enjoy!

On 4 Jun 2008, at 01:13, Kraig Grady wrote:

> various people have proposed applying Viggo Bruns algorithm to rhythm.
> David canwright did some work with applications to the fibonacci > series
> which i took into the direction of Wilson's Horograms, which can be
> seen here
> http://anaphoria.com/hora.PDF (done before one had photoshop)
> but your sequence is different, resembling additive patterns common to
> Indian music. i am not so sure it works as well as a pitch scale.
>
> /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
> Mesotonal Music from:
> _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>
> _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
> Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://> anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>
>
> ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
>
> Michael Sheiman wrote:
> >
> >
> > Assume a scale starts or note a and ends on upper case A IE
> >
> > A,F,J,M, O,T,X, a,c, octave (just after h)
> >
> > This is a 9-note scale in approximately 32TET.
> > Note the gaps between the notes are
> >
> > 4 between A and F (B,C,D, and E)
> > 3 between F and J (G,H,I)............
> > And so on....
> > The whole pattern of notes between notes in the scale seems to
> > coast in and out.
> > It goes 4,3,2,1,4,3,2,1,4(octave).
> > --------------------------
> > Now try playing a drum with the same proportion of gaps in between
> > each hit (instead
> > of a flat beat). Note how it sounds more interesting than 4/4, and
> > just as "full". Try
> > making multiple drum-lines with this pattern that play in each > other's
> > gaps and it gets
> > more interesting and complex yet not much harder at all to digest.
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I've heard of one theory (forget the precise source) that says the
> > mind is attracted to music based on how little effort it takes (IE
> > consistent patterns in functions that can summarize the rhythm/> tuning)
> > per complexity of the music IE complexity/predictability.
> >
> > And this seems to hold true in making both 9 note scales and
> > poly-rhythms.
> >
> > Is this just coincidence or...any thoughts?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On *Tue, 6/3/08, Carl Lumma /<carl@...>/* wrote:
> >
> > From: Carl Lumma <carl@...>
> > Subject: [tuning] Re: re;re for Tom
> > To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Tuesday, June 3, 2008, 11:06 AM
> >
> > Hans:
> > > > > For every irrational number, there is an infinite amount
> > > > > of rational numbers arbitrary close to it,
> >
> > Me:
> > > > There isn't even a single rational for every irrational
> > > > number -- how could there be an infinity of them?
> >
> > Kalle:
> > > "for every irrational number there is an infinite amount of
> > > rational numbers arbitrary close to it" just means that
> > >
> > > for every irrational number r and for every positive real
> > > number e > 0 there exists a rational number q so
> > > that |r - q| < e. This is true!
> >
> > What Hans said would be true if he'd said "for any" instead
> > of "for every". But what you say here isn't true even then.
> > You can get arbitrarily close but you can't get closer as
> > many times as there are reals closer.
> >
> > -Carl
> >
> >
>
>
Charles Lucy
lucy@...

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Theory of gaps in rhythm and tonality

🔗Michael Sheiman <djtrancendance@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Charles Lucy <lucy@...>