1200tet as a scientific approach..

It might be more productive in some avenues of microtonal speculation
if the scientific system of 1200tet is used rather than a multitude of
ratios and decimal points which are more suited to the tuning-math
people. This is just a suggestion. Don't blow your stack.

Great Robert;

Yet most microtonalists are still stuck in the swamps of integer
frequency ratios.

Many still believe that they are the location of "musical" harmonics,
rather than merely the "source" of beating.

Very off-topic, yet hopefully-amusing posting follows:

Six hours in a London police cell for raising the exit barrier of a
Sainsbury's supermarket, to release my little Skoda, gave me the
opportunity to exercise my old systems design skills.

Here is one practical solution for a more efficient, convenient and
cost-effective way to run the car parking for
supermarkets, which benefits both the supermarket and their customers.

As drivers enter the car park they read a sign which says:

"This car park is for Sainsbury customers only, who spend more than
ten pounds during their visit; all other vehicles will be charged £n
per minute. To ensure that you are not charged when we see your
registration number on our security cameras, tell the cashier your
registration number when you pay for your purchases, and we will know
not to bill you for parking if your receipt is for more than ten
pounds and your car has remained in the car park for less than two hours."

The security cameras already are in situ, and the registration number
can be printed onto the receipt by the cashier. This method also gives
Sainsbury's potential marketing information about their customers, and
enables them to bill those drivers who are using the car park, yet not the store.

Resident permit holders could be excluded from charges as a public
relations exercise.

Check the numbers on the cameras (a) against the sales slips (b), and
numbers which are on list a) yet not on list b) can be billed for
parking.

See tomorrow's UK Daily Telegraph - Tuesday page 5, as of latest
editorial decision, for photos and more details.

On 19 May 2008, at 19:27, robert thomas martin wrote:

> It might be more productive in some avenues of microtonal speculation
> if the scientific system of 1200tet is used rather than a multitude of
> ratios and decimal points which are more suited to the tuning-math
> people. This is just a suggestion. Don't blow your stack.
>
>
>

Charles Lucy
lucy@...

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

Robert Tomas Martin wrote:

> It might be more productive in some avenues of microtonal speculation
> if the scientific system of 1200tet is used rather than a multitude of
> ratios and decimal points which are more suited to the tuning-math
> people. This is just a suggestion. Don't blow your stack.

I don't know what is bad about using ratios. If you want to find exact
mappings of temperaments, then cents can't work just by itself. And you
can't use a temperament effectively if you don't know what is its mapping.

Petr

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Petr Parízek <p.parizek@...> wrote:
>
> Robert Tomas Martin wrote:
>
> > It might be more productive in some avenues of microtonal
speculation
> > if the scientific system of 1200tet is used rather than a multitude
of
> > ratios and decimal points which are more suited to the tuning-math
> > people. This is just a suggestion. Don't blow your stack.
>
> I don't know what is bad about using ratios. If you want to find exact
> mappings of temperaments, then cents can't work just by itself. And
you
> can't use a temperament effectively if you don't know what is its
mapping.
>
> Petr
>
From Robert. Yes, I agree with you but in the final analysis all that
we are left with is whole cents. I agree that when it comes to problems
associated with INITIAL CONDITIONS then the more decimal points the
better.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Charles Lucy <lucy@...> wrote:
>
> Great Robert;
>
>
> Yet most microtonalists are still stuck in the swamps of integer
> frequency ratios.
>
> Many still believe that they are the location of "musical"
harmonics,
> rather than merely the "source" of beating.
>
> Very off-topic, yet hopefully-amusing posting follows:
>
> Six hours in a London police cell for raising the exit barrier of
a
> Sainsbury's supermarket, to release my little Skoda, gave me the
> opportunity to exercise my old systems design skills.
>
> Here is one practical solution for a more efficient, convenient
and
> cost-effective way to run the car parking for
> supermarkets, which benefits both the supermarket and their
customers.
>
> As drivers enter the car park they read a sign which says:
>
> "This car park is for Sainsbury customers only, who spend more
than
> ten pounds during their visit; all other vehicles will be charged
£n
> per minute. To ensure that you are not charged when we see your
> registration number on our security cameras, tell the cashier your
> registration number when you pay for your purchases, and we will
know
> not to bill you for parking if your receipt is for more than ten
> pounds and your car has remained in the car park for less than two
> hours."
>
> The security cameras already are in situ, and the registration
number
> can be printed onto the receipt by the cashier. This method also
gives
> Sainsbury's potential marketing information about their customers,
and
> enables them to bill those drivers who are using the car park, yet
not
> the store.
>
> Resident permit holders could be excluded from charges as a public
> relations exercise.
>
> Check the numbers on the cameras (a) against the sales slips (b),
and
> numbers which are on list a) yet not on list b) can be billed for
> parking.
>
> See tomorrow's UK Daily Telegraph - Tuesday page 5, as of latest
> editorial decision, for photos and more details.
>
>
>
>
> On 19 May 2008, at 19:27, robert thomas martin wrote:
>
> > It might be more productive in some avenues of microtonal
speculation
> > if the scientific system of 1200tet is used rather than a
multitude of
> > ratios and decimal points which are more suited to the tuning-math
> > people. This is just a suggestion. Don't blow your stack.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Charles Lucy
> lucy@...
>
> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>
> for information on LucyTuning go to:
> http://www.lucytune.com
>
> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>
From Robert. Try not to get arrested so much and you'll be able to
spend more time making music.

Dear Robert,

different representations are useful for different purposes. Having ratios gives you various additional information, e.g., their limit. You can compute various further information such as their position on a JI lattice, their harmonic distance (e.g., Tenney distance) or their consonance/dissonance degree (e.g., Euler's gradus suavitatis).

Also, you can easily convert ratios into cents. Some small deviation in this computation (e.g., due to the inherent imprecision of floating point numbers) don't harm. Converting cents into ratios, on the other hand, can be missleading: some imprecision will result in wrong (usually much too complex) ratios.

Best
Torsten

On May 19, 2008, at 7:27 PM, robert thomas martin wrote:

> It might be more productive in some avenues of microtonal speculation
> if the scientific system of 1200tet is used rather than a multitude of
> ratios and decimal points which are more suited to the tuning-math
> people. This is just a suggestion. Don't blow your stack.
>
>
>
--
Torsten Anders
Interdisciplinary Centre for Computer Music Research
University of Plymouth
Office: +44-1752-586227
Private: +44-1752-558917
http://strasheela.sourceforge.net
http://www.torsten-anders.de

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Torsten Anders <torstenanders@...>
wrote:
>
> Dear Robert,
>
> different representations are useful for different purposes.
Having
> ratios gives you various additional information, e.g., their
limit.
> You can compute various further information such as their position
on
> a JI lattice, their harmonic distance (e.g., Tenney distance) or
> their consonance/dissonance degree (e.g., Euler's gradus
suavitatis).
>
> Also, you can easily convert ratios into cents. Some small
deviation
> in this computation (e.g., due to the inherent imprecision of
> floating point numbers) don't harm. Converting cents into ratios,
on
> the other hand, can be missleading: some imprecision will result
in
> wrong (usually much too complex) ratios.
>
> Best
> Torsten
>
> On May 19, 2008, at 7:27 PM, robert thomas martin wrote:
>
> > It might be more productive in some avenues of microtonal
speculation
> > if the scientific system of 1200tet is used rather than a
multitude of
> > ratios and decimal points which are more suited to the tuning-math
> > people. This is just a suggestion. Don't blow your stack.
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Torsten Anders
> Interdisciplinary Centre for Computer Music Research
> University of Plymouth
> Office: +44-1752-586227
> Private: +44-1752-558917
> http://strasheela.sourceforge.net
> http://www.torsten-anders.de
>
From Robert. I agree with you Torsten but switching back and forth
from ratios to cents and cents to ratios is a bit tedious. Alexander
Ellis designed the "1200cents to the octave system" so that
musicologists could accurately describe what they heard in the field.
Well now the field is the whole world and creative musicians are not
constrained by what the so-called experts tell them. Their only
constraint is a whole cent as a part of 1200cents to the octave. Let
creative musicians do what they do and if they come up with something
significant then the mathematicians can analyse and interpret to
their hearts' content. I still think that 41tet would make a good
universal music system but I am not so naive to think that that is
the final word on the matter. I also think that the 128 partials of
the 8th octave of the harmonic series has a lot of musical potential.

Robert Thomas Martin wrote:

> I agree that when it comes to problems
> associated with INITIAL CONDITIONS then the more decimal points the
> better.

It's nothing to do with decimal points. It's about discovering useful
temperaments. Personally, I can't imagine how lucky you'd have to be to
discover something like semisixth or orwell just by manipulating cent
values. If you use ratios or prime coordinates (sometimes called "monzos"),
this lets you see which comma vanishes in any particular temperament.
Similarly as the syntonic comma vanishes in meantone, then there are lots of
other good temperaments in which different commas vanish. And they offer
many new and interesting musical possibilities. If I had used only cents
while working with microtonal music, I would probably never discover many of
these. If you deliberately choose one particular interval to vanish, then
you get a key to make a particular temperament. For example, if you layer
5-limit intervals in various ways and eventually find that 78732/78125 is
only about 13 cents in size, then you can decide to make a temperament in
which this small interval vanishes (i.e. turns into unison). And this
actually is the way to semisixth (also sometimes called "sensipent") where
the period is a pure octave and the generator is half a major sixth.

Petr

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Petr Parízek <p.parizek@...> wrote:
>
> Robert Thomas Martin wrote:
>
> > I agree that when it comes to problems
> > associated with INITIAL CONDITIONS then the more decimal points
the
> > better.
>
> It's nothing to do with decimal points. It's about discovering
useful
> temperaments. Personally, I can't imagine how lucky you'd have to
be to
> discover something like semisixth or orwell just by manipulating
cent
> values. If you use ratios or prime coordinates (sometimes
called "monzos"),
> this lets you see which comma vanishes in any particular
temperament.
> Similarly as the syntonic comma vanishes in meantone, then there
are lots of
> other good temperaments in which different commas vanish. And they
offer
> many new and interesting musical possibilities. If I had used only
cents
> while working with microtonal music, I would probably never
discover many of
> these. If you deliberately choose one particular interval to
vanish, then
> you get a key to make a particular temperament. For example, if you
layer
> 5-limit intervals in various ways and eventually find that
78732/78125 is
> only about 13 cents in size, then you can decide to make a
temperament in
> which this small interval vanishes (i.e. turns into unison). And
this
> actually is the way to semisixth (also sometimes
called "sensipent") where
> the period is a pure octave and the generator is half a major sixth.
>
> Petr
>
From Robert. People are still going to use ratios etc whether
anyone else does or not. Hopefully they'll include cent translations
so as to make it easier to implement them from a musical point of
view. Ratios were originally designed to divide a monochord. I'm just
wondering how practical it is to have a ratio of 78732/78125.

Rather than 1200-TET, I prefer to us 1728-TET. That way, your basic 12-
TET is simply divided by twelve twice again. It works nicely with
duodecimal numeration.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Tony" <leopold_plumtree@...> wrote:
>
> Rather than 1200-TET, I prefer to us 1728-TET. That way, your basic
12-
> TET is simply divided by twelve twice again. It works nicely with
> duodecimal numeration.
>
From Robert. Yeah, why not? As long as the final result is expressed
in whole cents then I don't think anyone is going to complain.

I am going to complain at limited resolution, as precision is
essential to produce accurate beat frequencies, and to limit ourselves
to 1200 suggests that you are satisfied with "near enough for rock 'n'
roll".

If you're gonna do it; do it right. i.e. allow for future technologies
to give us infinite precision.

Just as 22/7, as a measure of ∏ has become outdated, so will 1200
integer cents per octave. I therefore propose decimal extensions for
the simple reason that 1/10th of a cent is already widely adopted by
many DAW's and to use duo-decimal or limited enumeration would be an
unnecessary uphill battle in the real world future.

So go for decimal cents, as the rest of the planet has, or have very
good reasons for "tilting at parking barriers" ;-)

At least my parking proposals should eliminate one of life's
irritating time-wastings and punitive attitudes for future generations.

On 19 May 2008, at 23:27, robert thomas martin wrote:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Tony" <leopold_plumtree@...> wrote:
> >
> > Rather than 1200-TET, I prefer to us 1728-TET. That way, your basic
> 12-
> > TET is simply divided by twelve twice again. It works nicely with
> > duodecimal numeration.
> >
> From Robert. Yeah, why not? As long as the final result is expressed
> in whole cents then I don't think anyone is going to complain.
>
>
>

Charles Lucy
lucy@...

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

ratios and/or Et divisions sometimes can make clearer how one is thinking of it

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

robert thomas martin wrote:
>
> It might be more productive in some avenues of microtonal speculation
> if the scientific system of 1200tet is used rather than a multitude of
> ratios and decimal points which are more suited to the tuning-math
> people. This is just a suggestion. Don't blow your stack.
>
>

If one only thinks of integer ratios, every nail is just ..........

Sorry about the mixed metaphors;-) (microphors)?

On 20 May 2008, at 00:00, Kraig Grady wrote:

> ratios and/or Et divisions sometimes can make clearer how one is
> thinking of it
>
> /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
> _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>
> _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
> Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://> anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>
>
> ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
>
> robert thomas martin wrote:
> >
> > It might be more productive in some avenues of microtonal > speculation
> > if the scientific system of 1200tet is used rather than a > multitude of
> > ratios and decimal points which are more suited to the tuning-math
> > people. This is just a suggestion. Don't blow your stack.
> >
> >
>
>
Charles Lucy
lucy@...

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Charles Lucy <lucy@...> wrote:
>
> I am going to complain at limited resolution, as precision is
> essential to produce accurate beat frequencies, and to limit
ourselves
> to 1200 suggests that you are satisfied with "near enough for
rock 'n'
> roll".
>
> If you're gonna do it; do it right. i.e. allow for future
technologies
> to give us infinite precision.
>
> Just as 22/7, as a measure of ∏ has become outdated, so will
1200
> integer cents per octave. I therefore propose decimal extensions
for
> the simple reason that 1/10th of a cent is already widely adopted
by
> many DAW's and to use duo-decimal or limited enumeration would be
an
> unnecessary uphill battle in the real world future.
>
> So go for decimal cents, as the rest of the planet has, or have
very
> good reasons for "tilting at parking barriers" ;-)
>
> At least my parking proposals should eliminate one of life's
> irritating time-wastings and punitive attitudes for future
generations.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 19 May 2008, at 23:27, robert thomas martin wrote:
>
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Tony" <leopold_plumtree@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Rather than 1200-TET, I prefer to us 1728-TET. That way, your
basic
> > 12-
> > > TET is simply divided by twelve twice again. It works nicely
with
> > > duodecimal numeration.
> > >
> > From Robert. Yeah, why not? As long as the final result is
expressed
> > in whole cents then I don't think anyone is going to complain.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Charles Lucy
> lucy@...
>
> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>
> for information on LucyTuning go to:
> http://www.lucytune.com
>
> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>
From Robert. At the end of the day I am only concerned with whole
cents. I don't really care what infinitissimal system people use as
long as the figures are rounded off in whole cents.

I mentioned ETs also.

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

Charles Lucy wrote:
>
> If one only thinks of integer ratios, every nail is just ..........
>
>
> Sorry about the mixed metaphors;-) (microphors)?
>
> On 20 May 2008, at 00:00, Kraig Grady wrote:
>
>> ratios and/or Et divisions sometimes can make clearer how one is >> thinking of it
>>
>> /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
>> _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: >> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/ >> <http://anaphoria.com/>>
>>
>> _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
>> Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria >> <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/ >> <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>>
>>
>> ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
>>
>> robert thomas martin wrote:
>> >
>> > It might be more productive in some avenues of microtonal speculation
>> > if the scientific system of 1200tet is used rather than a multitude of
>> > ratios and decimal points which are more suited to the tuning-math
>> > people. This is just a suggestion. Don't blow your stack.
>> >
>> > >>
>
> Charles Lucy
> lucy@... <mailto:lucy@...>
>
> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>
> for information on LucyTuning go to:
> http://www.lucytune.com <http://www.lucytune.com>
>
> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
> http://www.lullabies.co.uk <http://www.lullabies.co.uk>
>
>
>
>

There is a whole world out there beyond the limitations of just and ET, or are you getting "integer blinkered" in your advancing years Kraig?

On 20 May 2008, at 00:39, Kraig Grady wrote:

> I mentioned ETs also.
>
> /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
> _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>
> _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
> Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://> anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>
>
> ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
>
> Charles Lucy wrote:
> >
> > If one only thinks of integer ratios, every nail is just ..........
> >
> >
> > Sorry about the mixed metaphors;-) (microphors)?
> >
> > On 20 May 2008, at 00:00, Kraig Grady wrote:
> >
> >> ratios and/or Et divisions sometimes can make clearer how one is
> >> thinking of it
> >>
> >> /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
> >> _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
> >> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/
> >> <http://anaphoria.com/>>
> >>
> >> _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
> >> Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria
> >> <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/
> >> <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>>
> >>
> >> ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
> >>
> >> robert thomas martin wrote:
> >> >
> >> > It might be more productive in some avenues of microtonal > speculation
> >> > if the scientific system of 1200tet is used rather than a > multitude of
> >> > ratios and decimal points which are more suited to the tuning-> math
> >> > people. This is just a suggestion. Don't blow your stack.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> > Charles Lucy
> > lucy@... <mailto:lucy@...>
> >
> > - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
> >
> > for information on LucyTuning go to:
> > http://www.lucytune.com <http://www.lucytune.com>
> >
> > For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
> > http://www.lullabies.co.uk <http://www.lullabies.co.uk>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Charles Lucy
lucy@...

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Petr Parízek <p.parizek@...> wrote:
>
> Robert Thomas Martin wrote:
>
> > I agree that when it comes to problems associated with INITIAL
> > CONDITIONS then the more decimal points the better.
>
> It's nothing to do with decimal points. It's about discovering
> useful temperaments. Personally, I can't imagine how lucky you'd
> have to be to discover something like semisixth or orwell just
> by manipulating cent values.

Unfortunately Robert doesn't have a clue what things like
semisixth or orwell are and isn't likely to find out as long
as he keeps insisting to himself that retuned IV-V-I
progressions are something new and interesting to the
readership here.

-Carl

> From Robert. Yeah, why not? As long as the final result is
> expressed in whole cents then I don't think anyone is going
> to complain.

And who's going to complain about a tenth of a cent?

-Carl

I wish our moderators would start moderating down age-old
flames like 'rational numbers vs. something else'. Please
people, just cut this s&&& out. Regardless of what you
believe, do you really think there's any more to be gained
in discussing it at this point?

-Carl

--- In tuning@...m, Charles Lucy <lucy@...> wrote:
>
> There is a whole world out there beyond the limitations of just and
> ET, or are you getting "integer blinkered" in your advancing years
> Kraig?
>

I am quite aware of what is beyond. but i have enough to work with for quite a while.
in the west the preoccupation is always to go OUTside of things , in the east it is to go deeper INto.

I explore what i do throughly so the rest of you can do likewise somewhere else. This is how music grows, not by everyone doing the same things.

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

Charles Lucy wrote:
>
> There is a whole world out there beyond the limitations of just and > ET, or are you getting "integer blinkered" in your advancing years Kraig?
>
>
>
> On 20 May 2008, at 00:39, Kraig Grady wrote:
>
>> I mentioned ETs also.
>>
>> /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
>> _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: >> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/ >> <http://anaphoria.com/>>
>>
>> _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
>> Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria >> <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/ >> <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>>
>>
>> ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
>>
>> Charles Lucy wrote:
>> >
>> > If one only thinks of integer ratios, every nail is just ..........
>> >
>> >
>> > Sorry about the mixed metaphors;-) (microphors)?
>> >
>> > On 20 May 2008, at 00:00, Kraig Grady wrote:
>> >
>> >> ratios and/or Et divisions sometimes can make clearer how one is >> >> thinking of it
>> >>
>> >> /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
>> >> _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: >> >> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/ >> <http://anaphoria.com/> >> >> <http:! //anapho ria.com/ <http://anaphoria.com/>>>
>> >>
>> >> _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
>> >> Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria >> >> <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/ >> <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/> >> >> <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/ >> <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>>>
>> >>
>> >> ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
>> >>
>> >> robert thomas martin wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > It might be more productive in some avenues of microtonal speculation
>> >> > if the scientific system of 1200tet is used rather than a >> multitude of
>> >> > ratios and decimal points which are more suited to the tuning-math
>> >> > people. This is just a suggestion. Don't blow your stack.
>> >> >
>> >> > >> >>
>> >
>> > Charles Lucy
>> > lucy@... >> <mailto:lucy%40lucytune.com> <mailto:lucy@... >> <mailto:lucy%40lucytune.com>>
>> >
>> > - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>> >
>> > for information on LucyTuning go to:
>> > http://www.lucytune.com >> <http://www.lucytune.com> <http://www.lucytune.com >> <http://www.lucytune.com>>
>> >
>> > For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>> > http://www.lullabies.co.uk >> <http://www.lullabies.co.uk> <http://www.lullabies.co.uk >> <http://www.lullabies.co.uk>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >>
>
> Charles Lucy
> lucy@... <mailto:lucy@...>
>
> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>
> for information on LucyTuning go to:
> http://www.lucytune.com <http://www.lucytune.com>
>
> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
> http://www.lullabies.co.uk <http://www.lullabies.co.uk>
>
>
>
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> wrote:

>
> I explore what i do throughly so the rest of you can do likewise
> somewhere else. This is how music grows, not by everyone doing the
>same
> things.

"IV-I" as they say.

just the part i snipped here! this applies to me
until I figure out how to search for the relevant
posts!

dumb question: how do I look this stuff up?

--- Carl Lumma <carl@...> wrote:

...a clue what things
> like
> semisixth or orwell are and isn't likely to find
out...
>
> -Carl
>
>

Caleb Morgan wrote:

> dumb question: how do I look this stuff up?

How about this?

http://tonalsoft.com/enc/s/semisixths.aspx

http://tonalsoft.com/enc/o/orwell.aspx

Petr

thank you sir.

as dr. sun once said to me "you (meaning me, not
*you*, Petr) not stupid, you *lazy*". It's still an
open question whether dr. sun was right, however.
--- Petr Par�zek <p.parizek@...> wrote:

> Caleb Morgan wrote:
>
>
>
> > dumb question: how do I look this stuff up?
>
>
>
> How about this?
>
> http://tonalsoft.com/enc/s/semisixths.aspx
>
> http://tonalsoft.com/enc/o/orwell.aspx
>
> Petr
>
>
>
>
>

Hi there.

Trying to summarize my answer for all of you who seem to be in favor in one
or the other, let me STRONGLY emphasize that I actually often work with
three or four different ways to measure or describe intervals because one is
just not enough. I almost regularly, and almost at the same time, use
ratios, cent sizes, prime coordinates, and EDs (don't know how much I should
speak about these as ED has been discussed here some time ago). The idea is
that if you use only ratios or prime coordinates, you often aren't sure how
large the interval is in terms of exponential size. If you use only cents,
you know the size but you don't know the origin or the
possibilities/properties of the interval in question, which you CAN find
using prime coordinates or ratios. But neither of this tells you what
epimoric interval it's closest to and therefore you don't have any idea
about how "mistuned" the interval is in which frequency band; and this is
just what you can find with ED. So I actually often convert from one to
another because using just one unit for all my calculations would certainly
hide an awful lot of useful information from me.

Petr

> > ...a clue what things
> > like semisixth or orwell are and isn't likely to find
> > out...
>
> just the part i snipped here! this applies to me
> until I figure out how to search for the relevant
> posts!
>
> dumb question: how do I look this stuff up?

Hi Caleb,

You can search the list archives from

/tuning

right under Mark's picture. It sometimes even works pretty
well. Other times it can be frustrating.

You can also ask.

You can also read Paul Erlich's paper:
http://eceserv0.ece.wisc.edu/~sethares/paperspdf/Erlich-MiddlePath.pdf

-Carl

depending on the tuning and how it is put together requires different ways of looking at it for sure.
I don't think anyone proposed looking at things in one way only

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

Petr Par�zek wrote:
>
> Hi there.
>
> Trying to summarize my answer for all of you who seem to be in favor > in one
> or the other, let me STRONGLY emphasize that I actually often work with
> three or four different ways to measure or describe intervals because > one is
> just not enough. I almost regularly, and almost at the same time, use
> ratios, cent sizes, prime coordinates, and EDs (don't know how much I > should
> speak about these as ED has been discussed here some time ago). The > idea is
> that if you use only ratios or prime coordinates, you often aren't > sure how
> large the interval is in terms of exponential size. If you use only cents,
> you know the size but you don't know the origin or the
> possibilities/properties of the interval in question, which you CAN find
> using prime coordinates or ratios. But neither of this tells you what
> epimoric interval it's closest to and therefore you don't have any idea
> about how "mistuned" the interval is in which frequency band; and this is
> just what you can find with ED. So I actually often convert from one to
> another because using just one unit for all my calculations would > certainly
> hide an awful lot of useful information from me.
>
> Petr
>
>